Huckabee - CT school shooting due to God being removed from schools

[Dolphan7]

It's a very old, very stupid line of attack on atheism that's been rebutted a million times. Hitler, for example, was raised a Roman Catholic and called Christianity the "unshakeable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people." About half of the German High Command were confessing Catholics (and none besides Goebbels was excommunicated, and that's only because he married a Protestant!). The Vatican worked directly with the Nazis on stemming the tide of atheism and communism. The Catholics and Catholics bishops were a powerful force in German politics. The deciding vote to make Hitler chancellor was cast by a leader of the Catholic Center party.

It's debatable how much synergy there was beween the Nazis and the Catholic Church (personally I think less than some believe). But Pope Pius XII didn't even condemn Hitler until the war was over, despite being informed of the attacks on Jewish synagogues and businesses during the Kristallnacht and of atrocities in Austria, Lithuiania, Poland and the Ukraine, among others. He never declared it a sin to be a Nazi and refused to join with the Allies in a condemnation of Germany.

The notion that Hitler started a world war and annihilated the Jews because he was an atheist is just flat out ****ing stupid. It's totally ignorant of history. It ignores the rise of anti-Semitism world wide in the early 20th century and it's roots in Christian fundamentalism.

Likewise the purges of Stalin, the Khymer Rouge and the Great Leap Forward were not initiated on behalf of atheism. It is hardly comparable to the continuous religious strife and killing on behalf of religion that can be found right now in Northern Ireland, the Asian Subcontinent, the Middle East and going back to the 19th century to the wars of Protestant Reformation, the Crusades, and on and ****ing on.

Edit: I'll add this video of the late, great Christopher Hitchens on the subject. He even mentions the thing about Goebbels.

What is it with this forum these days? People responding with youtube video clips all the time. Anyway...I do see that you actually wrote something so that was not meant for you, your clip just reminded me of something that I have noticed more frequently here since I was last a regular poster.

In any event....It really doesn't matter what Hitler's beliefs were. I am not claiming he was an atheist, but I am claiming that his regime committed millions of murders not based on any religion at all, but on evolution and yes atheistic leanings. What they attempted to accomplish was straight out or Darwin's OOTS. My opinion of course.

Regarding your contention that religion is accountable for more deaths ( if that is indeed your stance)....please read this book " Death by Government", in which the author actually documents and numbers exactly how many people have been killed by religion versus non-religion. It is a good read no matter how you feel. You'll thank me later.


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[Dolphan7]

Fox news is a ****ing joke.

I was flipping between all of the news stations yesterday.

While watching MSNBC, they were having rational discussions about gun laws. When I turned on Fox News, I hear such things as the terms "evil" and "the devil" being used. Apparently, the devil was involved in the horrible actions of that maniac.

I swear I just now flipped over there on Fox News and Huckabee was on. The first thing I hear him say...... "God was definately there right after this shooting occurred". Hmmm. So God... this so called omniscient, omnipotent, omnibevolent being the christians speak of, was not there just before the shooting began or during it, but RIGHT AFTER!!! Good timing on God's part.

As you can see its impossible for a so called God could be those 3 characteristics at the same time given what transpires on earth. But, if he were just omnipotent you would think he would do something to stop that lunatic...... unless of course God is a ****ing *******. That dosent sound right either though. Maybe God is just imaginary. I donno. I just know the **** that comes out of Huckabees' mouth is total nonsense.

I will say I could do without MSNBC using quotes from Al Sharpton for quick 5 second ads for their network. But, Fox News is completely unwatchable altogether. I cant watch it anymore during terrible stories like this because of the ridiculous **** they say. Sometimes I will watch it during regular news cycles just for laughs or to see OReilly troll the **** out of people, but I just cant put it on to see them cover a story like this.

You obviously don't understand the concept of free will.

[TheWalrus]

What is it with this forum these days? People responding with youtube video clips all the time. Anyway...I do see that you actually wrote something so that was not meant for you, your clip just reminded me of something that I have noticed more frequently here since I was last a regular poster.

In any event....It really doesn't matter what Hitler's beliefs were. I am not claiming he was an atheist, but I am claiming that his regime committed millions of murders not based on any religion at all, but on evolution and yes atheistic leanings. What they attempted to accomplish was straight out or Darwin's OOTS. My opinion of course.

Regarding your contention that religion is accountable for more deaths ( if that is indeed your stance)....please read this book " Death by Government", in which the author actually documents and numbers exactly how many people have been killed by religion versus non-religion. It is a good read no matter how you feel. You'll thank me later.


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Hitler never commented on Darwin and there's no evidence that he ever read him. Not only that, but Darwin's works were banned in Germany in 1935.

So far as Hitler referred to "evolution," he meant it in the sense of Social Darwinism, which despite it's name was not originated by Darwin himself, but by Herbert Spencer.

Your comment about Nazism being atheistic is just flat wrong. If anything, it was consumingly religious... sort of a mismash of Catholicism and the pagan traditions of early Nordic Germany. You can look at the history of Nazi Germany and not see perfect Catholicism but to see atheism is frankly ridiculous. Oaths were sworn to God. Hitler considered himself to be doing God's work. Even the belt buckles of German soldiers said "God on our side." As I said before, about half of the German High Command were confessing Catholics, and the Catholic German bishops held considerable political power in Nazi Germany, especially initially. The Vatican considered communism to be atheistic and united themselves with the Nazis in part because Germany was opposed to them.

Atheism is merely the denial of the supernatural. It does not contain within itself moral or political positions. If you can find a comment of Hitler's saying that part of his motivation for his actions was ridding the world of religion, then by all means post it. But you're not going to find one.

[tylerdolphin]

Atheism is merely the denial of the supernatural. It does not contain within itself moral or political positions.

Thats really the bottom line. What people choose to do and justify in the name of atheism is n different than people who do ****ed up things and try justify it through religion. Bottom line is, ****ed up is ****ed up regardless of your belief in higher power or lack thereof.

[Vaark]

If in fact there was one of those omnipotent types of gods the religionists believe are the fulcrums of existence and interactive in the travails of living, surely that entity would have intervened to avert this most heinous dastardly act. The fact that this mass murder of innocent sitting duck children did occur merely confirms to me that such a deity is as influential and real as the Easter Bunny.

[TheWalrus]

Thats really the bottom line. What people choose to do and justify in the name of atheism is n different than people who do ****ed up things and try justify it through religion. Bottom line is, ****ed up is ****ed up regardless of your belief in higher power or lack thereof.

Well, most religions do contain within themselves moral and ethical positions. At the macro level most of these positions are what I would consider good ones, but the details are sometimes fungible enough to encourage the horrendous... Islam and Christianity/Judiasm being the worst offenders, imo.