Firearms in your home?

[flynryan15]

There is no struggle with reality. That implies delusions, and there is nothing delusional about any form of autism. They also don't lack empathy, they appear to because they don't understand non-verbals. They are described as robotic. And the social skills part is correct, but that plays into the inability to read social cues and non-verbals. I think you got a bad source, my friend.

I don't know much about the NCIS system, but I know that with the current system, most mentally ill individuals don't get the help they need until law enforcement is involved. That means an assault on someone or a suicide attempt. As ass backwards as that is, that means this kid could have been stating for weeks that he was literally going to shoot his parents and the school, and even if the police were notified, they could not have done anything to get him treatment until he attempted it. Could they have arrested him if they took his threats seriously? I'm sure. But that wouldn't get him the help he needs, that just puts him in jail. This is where the real focus should be.

You'll never ban guns. I think you need to restrict assault weapons to military and police, and we need to seriously revamp our mental health services...

I got it off some health website from the Australian Gov sorry couldn't copy the whole definition because my phone wouldn't let me.


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Symptoms of Asperger syndrome
More males than females are diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. While every person who has the syndrome will experience different symptoms and severity of symptoms, some of the more common characteristics include:
Average or above-average intelligence
Difficulties with high-level language skills such as verbal reasoning, problem solving, making inferences and predictions
Difficulties in empathising with others

Actually assualt rifles are banned by definition from the ATF a assualt rifle is a rifle capable of automatic or burst fire. These kids stood no chance be it a 9mm, .40 cal, 10mm, 45, .223, or 5.56. They were in close quarters. Look at the Vat Tech killings on of his weapons was a .22 pistol.

I am all for trying to fix the problem I just don't think a certain gun being illegal does it. Background checks and information sharing is the key.

the NCIS is the National Criminal Infprmation System based in Winchester, Va fan by the FBI. Till the Va Tech shootings most states didn't run a gun buyer through it. Bush signed a law requiring all gun buyers be run through it if they are buying from a dealer. Unfortunately unless a judge declares someone mentally defect it won't go to the NCIS in the Va Techs shooters case he was adjudicated mentally ill but at the time Virginia didn't run a NCIS check.

[flynryan15]

I got it off some health website from the Australian Gov sorry couldn't copy the whole definition because my phone wouldn't let me.


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Symptoms of Asperger syndrome
More males than females are diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. While every person who has the syndrome will experience different symptoms and severity of symptoms, some of the more common characteristics include:
Average or above-average intelligence
Difficulties with high-level language skills such as verbal reasoning, problem solving, making inferences and predictions
Difficulties in empathising with others

Actually assualt rifles are banned by definition from the ATF a assualt rifle is a rifle capable of automatic or burst fire. These kids stood no chance be it a 9mm, .40 cal, 10mm, 45, .223, or 5.56. They were in close quarters. Look at the Vat Tech killings on of his weapons was a .22 pistol.

I am all for trying to fix the problem I just don't think a certain gun being illegal does it. Background checks and information sharing is the key.

the NCIS is the National Criminal Infprmation System based in Winchester, Va fan by the FBI. Till the Va Tech shootings most states didn't run a gun buyer through it. Bush signed a law requiring all gun buyers be run through it if they are buying from a dealer. Unfortunately unless a judge declares someone mentally defect it won't go to the NCIS in the Va Techs shooters case he was adjudicated mentally ill but at the time Virginia didn't run a NCIS check.

As far as getting them help in Florida we have the Baker Act which his parents could have used through law enforcement to get him help. Basically it has a person committees for 72 hours for evaluation to determine if they are of sound mind. If they are a danger to themselves or others is all it takes. But that is "if" he was acting that way and from what I read his mothers denial was part of the problem.

[Locke]

As far as getting them help in Florida we have the Baker Act which his parents could have used through law enforcement to get him help. Basically it has a person committees for 72 hours for evaluation to determine if they are of sound mind. If they are a danger to themselves or others is all it takes. But that is "if" he was acting that way and from what I read his mothers denial was part of the problem.

But that's the catch, what defines a danger to themselves or others? That's the same law here in NM, and they have to be making "legitimate" suicidal or homicidal threats. So most times, law enforcement shows up and deems that it isn't a legitimate threat, and leaves. That happens a few times, and all of a sudden the address gets marked as having consistent false alarms, so it stops being taken seriously. But what happens when suddenly that person follows through? I think more people would get the help they needed if it was more accessible. A lot of men see talking about what they're going through as a sign of weakness, so they just don't. I think that stigma has to pass as well...

[flynryan15]

But that's the catch, what defines a danger to themselves or others? That's the same law here in NM, and they have to be making "legitimate" suicidal or homicidal threats. So most times, law enforcement shows up and deems that it isn't a legitimate threat, and leaves. That happens a few times, and all of a sudden the address gets marked as having consistent false alarms, so it stops being taken seriously. But what happens when suddenly that person follows through? I think more people would get the help they needed if it was more accessible. A lot of men see talking about what they're going through as a sign of weakness, so they just don't. I think that stigma has to pass as well...

Not sure about New Mexico but in Florida a parent can have a child Baker Acted by telling law enforcement they are a danger. If the patient is found of sound mind after the 72hr observation it is like it never happened. If they are found to have problems then the court is involved at that point.

[TheWalrus]

There is no struggle with reality. That implies delusions, and there is nothing delusional about any form of autism. They also don't lack empathy, they appear to because they don't understand non-verbals. They are described as robotic. And the social skills part is correct, but that plays into the inability to read social cues and non-verbals. I think you got a bad source, my friend.

I don't know much about the NCIS system, but I know that with the current system, most mentally ill individuals don't get the help they need until law enforcement is involved. That means an assault on someone or a suicide attempt. As ass backwards as that is, that means this kid could have been stating for weeks that he was literally going to shoot his parents and the school, and even if the police were notified, they could not have done anything to get him treatment until he attempted it. Could they have arrested him if they took his threats seriously? I'm sure. But that wouldn't get him the help he needs, that just puts him in jail. This is where the real focus should be.

You'll never ban guns. I think you need to restrict assault weapons to military and police, and we need to seriously revamp our mental health services...

Interesting. You would know better than I but last year I read the book "The Science of Evil" by Simon Baron-Cohen where he listed people with autism in the category of having no or reduced empathy, but not in a way that manifests itself violently, as happens with people with Borderline or psychotic personality disorders.

The book went into detail about how brain scans show certain centers and pathways in the brain that deal with empathy, which he called the "empathy circuit" (or something like that). The part I found most fascinating was how some people can look at a picture of someone laughing or in pain and literally not recognize the look on their face. They can't describe the emotion, certainly not how people with normal amounts of empathy can. I had always assumed the ability to be destructively violent was mostly down to not caring. But it appears that people with no empathy often don't even really know they're hurting someone, or that they're scared.

[flynryan15]

That is the beauty of Psychology you so many different opinions and interpretations. That link I gave from the Australian Govt claims lacks empathy and prone to violent outburst.

The point I was making is if you know your child's elevator doesn't go all the way to the top introducing them to guns is a bad idea.

[Locke]

Interesting. You would know better than I but last year I read the book "The Science of Evil" by Simon Baron-Cohen where he listed people with autism in the category of having no or reduced empathy, but not in a way that manifests itself violently, as happens with people with Borderline or psychotic personality disorders.

The book went into detail about how brain scans show certain centers and pathways in the brain that deal with empathy, which he called the "empathy circuit" (or something like that). The part I found most fascinating was how some people can look at a picture of someone laughing or in pain and literally not recognize the look on their face. They can't describe the emotion, certainly not how people with normal amounts of empathy can. I had always assumed the ability to be destructively violent was mostly down to not caring. But it appears that people with no empathy often don't even really know they're hurting someone, or that they're scared.

That's true in the sense that they can't recognize the facial expressions, so they don't react. If it's spelled out for them, you get the reaction you're looking for. So someone with Asperger's would say something like "you're ugly" and not recognize the look of being offended on someone's face, but if someone else told them that was mean and you hurt their feelings, they would then react, one way or another. Of course, it gets more convoluted than that because no 2 people are the same, and you're always going to get more and less empathetic people who have Asperger's and other forms of autism, but that would be it simplistically. Those neural pathways wouldn't light up when looking at the pictures. I would bet that if they did those same scans and then described what was going on in the picture, you would get the synapses you were looking for. Probably not the same way you would with someone like you or I, but it would be there.

You're absolutely right about these people literally not knowing what they are doing. That's why you get kids with autism who are perceived as violent or aggressive or whatever and removed from classes. They literally don't know they are annoying or hurting others until someone sits down with them and explains it. More than that, they don't understand the emotions being described to them, so it's not as easy as just sitting them down and telling them what they are doing. Educators have no patience for these kids because they don't have the time to give them the attention they need. It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy that these kids turn out to be trouble-makers...

[Locke]

By the way, how is The Science of Evil? Due to spending so much of my time reading scientific journals and research papers, I stay away from most everything psychology related in my free time. I've heard mixed reviews on it. The professor I'm working under isn't the biggest fan, and I can see why because that brief snippet you posted isn't incorrect, but it leaves you with partial information. But others I've talked to, both in the psychology field and in other fields, really enjoyed it. I'm trying to decide if I want to use some of my free time reading my psychology stuff. I love the field, but sometimes I just get tired of reading about brain chemistry...

[flynryan15]

Locke I think you were right when you said after the investigation we will learn he had several mental problems

[Locke]

Locke I think you were right when you said after the investigation we will learn he had several mental problems

I have absolutely no doubt about that. While we'll never know for sure since his mom never took him in, this sounds like a psychotic break. I think 2 things could have happened. He is either paranoid schizophrenic and probably thought he was helping everyone by killing them before someone else did, and then himself when he thought they caught him, or he had something snap with this whole Mayan apocalypse nonsense coming up. Those with schizophrenia perseverate on things that are supernatural or science fiction, so I have a hard time believing that the timing of this is coincidence. Either one would have been easily avoided if he was seeing a psychiatrist regularly...