The '09 -'11 Jets Elite? Yea or Nay?

[nyjunc]

I never said being elite for 1 season is enough, I just said he was elite in 2011, and judging by the fact that he is in the prime of his career and still has 6 good years left in him I think he has a solid chance at being considered an elite career qb by the time it's all said and done.

Point is, Eli being elite last year was the main reason that defense got a chance to step it up in the postseason. Even if the D hadn't played that well last year in the playoffs, I firmly believe Eli's play would still have been enough to win against those teams. Even if the Pack had scored their average of 35 points, the fact that Eli led his O to 37 points, including 3 TDs of his own, would still have been enough to win.

9 TDs against 1 pick in the playoffs is enough to put the team on your back, regardless of what the defense does, and 29 TDs in the reg season isn't all that bad either. IMHO, that defense owes Eli big time for giving them a chance to showcase their true talents in the playoffs, because without his 15 4th quarter comebacks their play last year would have been remembered as a huge letdown.

You want to call him elite for 2011? I can buy that for a single season, he was a top 5 guy in 2011 although I don't think he necessarily had an elite full season but I can buy that line of thinking but the talk of elite is an ongoing thing. The elite guys are the Bradys, Peytons, Rodgers types that every year have their teams in position to compete for championships -they may not win it but they always put their team in position. To me Eli is the opposite of his brother, peyton is one of the greatest reg season Qbs but he is mediocre in january where Eli goes the other way.

Yes he has a chance to be an Eli QB but he needs to consistently be a top guy, not one week great the next week mediocre/bad. Until he does that he won't truly be an elite.

W/o the D playing incredible football they never win the SB, never get to the SB. they would have been out in GB.

if he plays well earlier in games does he need all the comebacks? That's been a knock on sanchez too and a fair one.

he didn't have 15 4th qtr comebacks, he had 8 which is still outstadning but not 15 and he did throw some bad 4th qtr picks making those comebacks necessary.

[peace4all]

You want to call him elite for 2011? I can buy that for a single season, he was a top 5 guy in 2011 although I don't think he necessarily had an elite full season but I can buy that line of thinking but the talk of elite is an ongoing thing. The elite guys are the Bradys, Peytons, Rodgers types that every year have their teams in position to compete for championships -they may not win it but they always put their team in position. To me Eli is the opposite of his brother, peyton is one of the greatest reg season Qbs but he is mediocre in january where Eli goes the other way.

Yes he has a chance to be an Eli QB but he needs to consistently be a top guy, not one week great the next week mediocre/bad. Until he does that he won't truly be an elite.

W/o the D playing incredible football they never win the SB, never get to the SB. they would have been out in GB.

if he plays well earlier in games does he need all the comebacks? That's been a knock on sanchez too and a fair one.

he didn't have 15 4th qtr comebacks, he had 8 which is still outstadning but not 15 and he did throw some bad 4th qtr picks making those comebacks necessary.

My bad, yes he had 8. I was confusing that stat with something else. However, it's the most all time in a single season(unless someone surpassed it this season, I don't know), tied with Delhomme, who coincidentally also made it to the SB that year. This is further proof that quarterbacks who pull of this kind of heroics have had a lot to do with their teams going as far as the Giants did last year.

How do you know they would have been out in GB? Like I said, even if GB had gotten their average of 35, Eli's 3 TDs and 37 pts to which he led his offense still would have been enough to win.

[nyjunc]

My bad, yes he had 8. I was confusing that stat with something else. However, it's the most all time in a single season(unless someone surpassed it this season, I don't know), tied with Delhomme, who coincidentally also made it to the SB that year. This is further proof that quarterbacks who pull of this kind of heroics have had a lot to do with their teams going as far as the Giants did last year.

How do you know they would have been out in GB? Like I said, even if GB had gotten their average of 35, Eli's 3 TDs and 37 pts to which he led his offense still would have been enough to win.

Eli wasn't great at GB, remember that one of his Tds was a hail mary at the end of the 1st half and he had 2 short passes turn into LONG TDs b/c of hakeem Nicks. The NYG D forced 4 TOs which was huge in the game. Eli was good but w/o the D shuttig down an elite offense on the road they aren't winning that game- I guess we shouldn't say no chance but the chances would have been incredibly slim to win if GB scored anywhere near their season average and didn't turn it over 4 times.

[PhinzN703]

who said it wasn't better? you are getting 2 different arguments confused, one about elite teams(which the Giants were in '07 & '11 despite you saying they weren't) and one about elite QBs. 4 playoff wins, 2 title game apps and being a top 4 team 2 straight years makes a team elite, missing 3 of 4 postseasons, throwing 25 INts does not make a QB elite.

It makes them a very good team yes, not elite. I never considered the Eagles an elite team despite their NFCCG trips and one SB appearance. Win it all and then we can start that discussion.

[peace4all]

I'll give you the Hail Mary because it's a crapshoot and could have very easily been a TO instead, but regardless of Nicks' great play it was still a very good throw. However, I repeat, the fact that teammates did their jobs shouldn't diminish Eli's merits. You've said you're giving him proper credit, but I believe you're not, because you're taking away from his fair share of credit and passing it around to other people. Yes, his recievers made plays, but without him making great throws, they wouldn't have been in a position to do so.

I bet if Sanchez and Holmes made that kind of play on a Hail Mary, you'd be giving Sanchez huge credit, and I'm not saying that in a mean way.

Except the pick he threw, Eli played great that day. And he only had 1 short throw that turned into a long TD, the other ones were the Hail Mary and the throw to Manningham in the red zone, which was a also a nice throw.

The fact that the Packers turned it over that many times isn't Eli's fault, just like it's not the Jets' fault the Colts decided to rest their starters in that last part of the game.

But you're right, the Pack should have won that game, especially with all the help they were getting from the refs, who seemed to desperately want them to win LOL.

[nyjunc]

of course the TOs aren't Eli's fault but he benfitted from them. If GB scores at will and isn't turning it over NYG has very little chance to win no matter how well Eli plays.

GB shouldn't have won that game b/c NYG badly outplayed them in all phases.

[peace4all]

of course the TOs aren't Eli's fault but he benfitted from them. If GB scores at will and isn't turning it over NYG has very little chance to win no matter how well Eli plays.

GB shouldn't have won that game b/c NYG badly outplayed them in all phases.

I was being sarcastic in the last paragraph, I think you noticed that.

Point is, if the opposition scores at will, then any team has a very slim chance of winning any game. Had the Packers scored their average of 35 points, the 37 scored by the Giants would still have been enough to win. Had the Packers scored more than that, who's to say the Giants wouldn't have matched them? The way the offense was clicking, with Eli throwing well, Nicks making catches, and the running game showing up, I think the Giants could have scored even more had they been pressed to do so.

[nyjunc]

I thank you for a civil discussion, it used to be like that all the time around here but it's pretty rare lately when it involves myself b/c I have certain fans that cannot see past the fact that i dare to like a div rival and post here.

[peace4all]

I thank you for a civil discussion, it used to be like that all the time around here but it's pretty rare lately when it involves myself b/c I have certain fans that cannot see past the fact that i dare to like a div rival and post here.

Any time man, you're welcome.

[Vaark]

voting seems to have stalled .. mods, how about we clip out all the posting "verbiage" and continue this poll as a main forum sticky?