How do Fin fans rate the greatest QBs of all time?

[royalshank]

Indulge me in a little break from playing GM or talking about ficticious dead girlfriends...

"Who was the greatest QB of all time" is debate topic that will never go away as long as football is being played. Come playoff time the topic of "greatest QBs" gets a lot of air and is so overlbown in my opinion. Brady, Manning - the media loves these guys - I get it - but what do you look at when weighing in on these discussions? You hear all the time - "unless he has a SB ring, he can't be the greatest" - and I'm not sure that is fair. I don't like this argument because if you are going to go there then you have to be prepared to say Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, Joe Thesiman, Jeff Hostetler, etc were better than Marino, Fouts and Jim Kelly. You also have to be prepared to say Griese was better than Marino - hope I don't trigger a generational debate here
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What about rule changes and how the game has evolved to make passing easier today than it was yesterday? Would it surprise you to learn Johnny Unitas' career QB rating was about a 76? By today's standards, he would look like Chad Henne - or worse. Given that (a) I don't think you can compare QBs over eras and (b) I don't buy into the SB winning thing (football is a team sport) I got to thinking that there are two types of great QBs:

1. The surgeon - a QB that methodically picks you apart and works his coach's system to near perfection. Doesn't or can't "will" his team to victory without a great supporting cast and great execution. If we go by decade, I believe you have:

1960's: Bart Starr
1970's: Bob Griese
1980's: Joe Montana
1990's: Troy Aikman
2000's: Tom Brady
2010's: Tom Brady (unfortunately still)

2. The executioner - a QB that "was the system" and was a threat to score on any throw from anywhere on the field. A real game-breaker who couldn't be stopped even when you knew he was throwing the ball - and where he was throwing it to. Can "will" his team to victory - won a lot of games in the final minutes that his team probably should have lost. By decade, my picks are:

1960's: Johnny Unitas
1970's: Terry Bradshaw
1980's: Dan Marino
1990's: Brett Favre
2000's: Peyton Manning
2010's: Aaron Rogers

I think the surgeons were guys who needed a system built for them (Montana may be the exception), while group no 2 could make any team competitive instantly.

Note: a lot of great QBs missing here - e.g., Elway - decided I could only pick 1 per decade, per category.

Curious what you guys think of this way of "thinking about the question" of evaluating the best QBs of all time.

[Phinatic8u]

Dan Marino is the GOAT.

He is the most talented pocket passed ever. That's how I rate greatness, how the single player plays.

Not how his team is.

[royalshank]

Dan Marino is the GOAT.

He is the most talented pocket passed ever. That's how I rate greatness, how the single player plays.

Not how his team is.

I agree with you bro - but I feel that the media puts too much emphasis on SB wins. Funny enough, the AFC lost every SB from '84-'97 - the entire class of '83 went to the AFC. The NFC was bigger, more physical and dominated for a long run there. Yet no one points that out when they talk about those great AFC QBs - Marino, Elway, Kelly - in fact 4 of the 6 taken in the first round led their teams to SBs (Eason being the other).

[Phinatic8u]

I agree with you bro - but I feel that the media puts too much emphasis on SB wins. Funny enough, the AFC lost every SB from '84-'97 - the entire class of '83 went to the AFC. The NFC was bigger, more physical and dominated for a long run there. Yet no one points that out when they talk about those great AFC QBs - Marino, Elway, Kelly - in fact 4 of the 6 taken in the first round led their teams to SBs (Eason being the other).

Marino was just amazing throwing the football.

Nobody comes close today, maybe Rodgers..

[royalshank]

Marino was just amazing throwing the football.

Nobody comes close today, maybe Rodgers..

I remember Tom Jackson on Primetime talking about how before a game in Denver he and his teammates were actually intimidated watching Dan warm up - the other thing no one seems to talk about is Dan was "instantly great" - I think he went 9-1 as a starter in his rookie year and his release was something that just took the league by surprise. He was so amazing to watch - especially in the '80s and early '90s

[Digital]

Every meaningful record a QB could hold was held by Marino when he retired. Every time Elway played we heard about how he had the most 4th quarter comebacks, yet Marino was almost always just a couple behind and nobody ever even mentioned it because Marino held all the records. When Marino retired, he owned the most 4th quarter comebacks too. Marino had some talent with him for sure, but nowhere near the talent that Montana had. Let's face it, Marino can't play DE, CB, MLB, or NT, so the fact he had to outscore every team doesn't make him inferior to players with Super Bowl rings.

A world class cannon for an arm, the quickest release I've ever seen, unbelievable vision to find the open man, and insane accuracy. He felt and avoided the rush as well as anyone. Physically, I'd say pre-injury he was the best combo of physical ability of any QB I've ever seen. He was quick witted and savy, one of the very best of all times at quickly reading and reacting to defenses. He was great against coverage and lethal against theblitz.

Watching Marino play, I don't think you can say any QB has ever been better honestly, unless you were pulling for their team or simply didn't see most of Marino's games. Differing opinions are fine, and I respect everyone's opinion, but to me, it's like arguing that the number 7 is more than the number 10 ... no matter how you look at it, it just isn't. So, when people explain why they think Montana, Brady, or any other QB is better I just look at the evidence and every time 10 is more than 7, and we agree to disagree. IMHO, Marino not only went to 11, he went to 13 ... and nobody else can break 10.

Rod Woodson said if Marino were playing today he'd throw for 100,000 yards. Bill Walsh said Joe Montana was the product of a system and Marino WAS a system. I'm pretty sure neither of those guys were really pulling for Marino, and I'm certain they both thought Marino was the best. I agree. Marino is the best ever.

Manning is the most cerebral and the best at audibling and adjusting to what the defense gives you. Brady is great too. But IMHO, if all of those QB's were rookies in 1983, Marino would have owned all their records too. And if Marino had come into the NFL the same year as Peyton Manning, Marino's records would still be standing ... every one of them.

[TheWarriorFins]

If Tom Brady wins it this year the general NFL fan base will most likely side with him being the GOAT and recent success. Pure talent wise I think it's Marino as number 1 then Peyton at 2. But for most people's GOAT list you need to factor their entire career and and accolades so marino doesn't really compare to Montana/Brady to the general fan base.

[Digital]

IMHO, Miami holds the distinction of having the greatest of all time player at 3 different positions:

1. QB: Dan Marino
2 . FB: Larry Csonka
3 . C: Dwight Stephenson

Hopefully we can have a few more before it's all said and done.
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[mega-fin-love]

Not sure about the order but........
Marino
Montana
Manning
Brady
............also to say Tom Brady can't will his team to victory is just silly. All dude does is go to superbowls

[royalshank]

Every meaningful record a QB could hold was held by Marino when he retired. Every time Elway played we heard about how he had the most 4th quarter comebacks, yet Marino was almost always just a couple behind and nobody ever even mentioned it because Marino held all the records. When Marino retired, he owned the most 4th quarter comebacks too. Marino had some talent with him for sure, but nowhere near the talent that Montana had. Let's face it, Marino can't play DE, CB, MLB, or NT, so the fact he had to outscore every team doesn't make him inferior to players with Super Bowl rings.

A world class cannon for an arm, the quickest release I've ever seen, unbelievable vision to find the open man, and insane accuracy. He felt and avoided the rush as well as anyone. Physically, I'd say pre-injury he was the best combo of physical ability of any QB I've ever seen. He was quick witted and savy, one of the very best of all times at quickly reading and reacting to defenses. He was great against coverage and lethal against theblitz.

Watching Marino play, I don't think you can say any QB has ever been better honestly, unless you were pulling for their team or simply didn't see most of Marino's games. Differing opinions are fine, and I respect everyone's opinion, but to me, it's like arguing that the number 7 is more than the number 10 ... no matter how you look at it, it just isn't. So, when people explain why they think Montana, Brady, or any other QB is better I just look at the evidence and every time 10 is more than 7, and we agree to disagree. IMHO, Marino not only went to 11, he went to 13 ... and nobody else can break 10.

Rod Woodson said if Marino were playing today he'd throw for 100,000 yards. Bill Walsh said Joe Montana was the product of a system and Marino WAS a system. I'm pretty sure neither of those guys were really pulling for Marino, and I'm certain they both thought Marino was the best. I agree. Marino is the best ever.

Manning is the most cerebral and the best at audibling and adjusting to what the defense gives you. Brady is great too. But IMHO, if all of those QB's were rookies in 1983, Marino would have owned all their records too. And if Marino had come into the NFL the same year as Peyton Manning, Marino's records would still be standing ... every one of them.

Well articulated. When he was playing the question was "Marino or Montana"? As the years go by, Dan gets less and less mention and I truly believe it is because of the lack of the SB ring. It's sad, really that we judge QBs that way IMO. Again, from '84-'97 the NFC won all the Bowls - the entire class of '83 went to the AFC. I'm a fan of the group number 2 up there - the guys who could decaptiate you with one play. Dan was the ultimate "executioner" in my view.

Another thing regarding records since you brought it up - I believe when Dan broke the TD mark it was in week 11 or 12 or something. The other guys did it in week 16 or 17 and were running scores up just to break it. It's not the same. If Miami cared about that TD record, Dan would have had 60+ in '84 as they blew most oppenents out and were running the ball in Q4. The 2007 Patsies were running the score up to accumulate TDs for Brady...