Go on record: YOUR gun control position.

[Bumpus]

I agree. I don't think a ban on all guns is needed. One influential government female worker or not, Obama and the gang aren't looking to take all your guns. I'm all for all of us having the right to protect ourselves. What I am of the mindset of is that automatic weapons such as the one the Newtown killer had aren't needed by average citizens for anything.

He didn't have an automatic weapon.


This is the frustrating/annoying part. There's a HUGE difference between a machine gun and a AR/AK platform rifle. People who really don't even know what they're talking about jump into the discussion against certain types of firearms because they look scary.




This is an AR-15:


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This is my Marlin 336:


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Wanna guess which one will do more damage? Hint: It's not the evil-scary-looking-pseudo-military one.

[Filthy Fin]

The bigger the better is my motto..........unless of course you are talking about words then a little filthy one is always better!

[GoFins!]

What I am of the mindset of is that semi-automatic weapons such as the one the Newtown killer had aren't needed by average citizens for anything.

I am of the mindset of is that automatic weapons such as the one the Newtown killer had SHOULDN'T be needed by average citizens for anything.

However, as long as they exist then I would rather that sane and responsible people ALSO have them, properly and safely stored, instead of just criminals.

I am also of the mindset that the First Amendment should NOT apply to vulgar speech. However, it's not my place to dictate which Constitutional Rights you are able to express and which you aren't. We don't NEED to use vulgar language but that doesn't mean we don't have the right to.

As long as "we" are discussing the First Amendment, why do we have the right to associate with known criminal organizations? Why are we free to openly join an organization that commonly engages in violence, yet we cannot be interfered with until AFTER we engage in violence?

Which American Muslim associations has not had key members indicted for funneling money to terrorists? Why do we have the right to associate with and contribute to organizations that have been found guilty of aiding those who want to destroy us?

Which part of the Constitution states that people who contribute $zero to the federal government can influence how much money the rest of us are forced to pay and how it is spent?

If we're going begin infringing on Constitutional Rights then let's discuss ALL of them.

[Spesh]

I don't have as much of a problem with drawing a logical line in the sand and saying weapons more powerful than X are not reasonable for personal use. People shouldn't really own Dragon missles and such. I also don't have a problem with weapons/hunters education for people below a certain age. However, I do have a problem with people who have no idea WTF an assault rifle is, what it does, or how to use it spewing forth like they are the All-Powerful and All-Knowing Oz and trying to ban them when they are no more dangerous than any other small arms. I am especially adamant about the subject because any type of weapons ban for anything currently available is completely asinine and simply a knee-jerk reaction so everyone can say, "we did something". We can't or don't enforce the current gun laws and criminals scoff at them so any further regulation will essentially do exactly what all of current gun crowd is saying...prevent law-abiding citizens from buying certain guns without affecting the criminals whatsoever. Banning semi-autos and high-capacity magazines will accomplish absolutely nothing but to deprive sportsmen, hunters, and gun-owners from buying guns and will cost a lot of people their jobs. This whole debate is a contrived, media-driven crock of ****!

I also agree with you about the Founding Fathers lacking a bit of morallity at times but they are still among the wisest and greatest political minds to ever be assembled. Our constitution is probably the greatest document to ever be drafted.

One more quick thing, we don't have to have consensus on the second amendment. It is pretty clear what the intentions were and if people would objectively look to the constitution for the answer rather than project their opinion onto the constitution then look for justification or a loophole to back up what they pre-determined to be right. People do this same crap with the Bible and it makes me sick.

Theres no doubt that the Founding Fathers were extremely intelligent and highly educated and the points/laws they made are worth observing and respecting. Recently ive just gotten a bit frustrated at how romanticized theyve become in our culture. Undoubtedly my attitude is in response to this past election, where Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum couldnt make a public appearance without bringing them up...and often misinterpreting them and the Constitution. I think its important to keep a perspective on everything, especially a subject as important as the laws of our land and those who created those laws.
I dont try and diminish the brilliance of our Founders or the work they did, i just feel we should remember that they could be vicious human beings who wouldnt hesitate to advance their own goals through violence while persecuting anything they werent personally at ease with. If we choose not to remember, we run the risk of making the same mistakes they did. Thats why it terrifies me to read about politicians rewriting history books to remove all references to our Founders owning slaves.

And never meant to suggest we had a consensus on the second amendment. People have been making alot of comparisons between the first and second amendment, i was just trying to say that we have a consensus on the first amendment(by and large anyways) but we do not have a consensus on the second. Its been continuously revisited in our society and our Supreme Court has hardly given a consistent view on it. Until we reach a overwhelming consensus on the subject, i will view the constant debates over the second amendment different than the very few debates over the first.

[Bumpus]

I am of the mindset of is that automatic weapons such as the one the Newtown killer had SHOULDN'T be needed by average citizens for anything.

However, as long as they exist then I would rather that sane and responsible people ALSO have them, properly and safely stored, instead of just criminals.

I am also of the mindset that the First Amendment should NOT apply to vulgar speech. However, it's not my place to dictate which Constitutional Rights you are able to express and which you aren't. We don't NEED to use vulgar language but that doesn't mean we don't have the right to.

As long as we're discussing the First Amendment, why do we have the right to associate with known criminal organizations? Why are we free to openly join an organization that commonly engages in violence, yet we cannot be interfered with until AFTER we engage in violence?

Which American Muslim associations has not had key members indicted for funneling money to terrorists? Why do we have the right to associate with and contribute to organizations that have been found guilty of aiding those who want to destroy us?

Which part of the Constitution states that people who contribute $zero to the federal government can influence how much money the rest of us are forced to pay and how it is spent?

If we're going begin infringing on Constitutional Rights then let's discuss ALL of them.

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You started out ok, but let's keep it on topic.

1st Amendment issues are a different thread. Feel free to start one.
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[PhinzN703]

He didn't have an automatic weapon.


This is the frustrating/annoying part. There's a HUGE difference between a machine gun and a AR/AK platform rifle. People who really don't even know what they're talking about jump into the discussion against certain types of firearms because they look scary.




This is an AR-15:


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This is my Marlin 336:


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Wanna guess which one will do more damage? Hint: It's not the evil-scary-looking-pseudo-military one.

I don't claim to know anything about guns b/c TBH I've never used one. I wouldn't mind going to the shooting range sometime and seeing what that's like but I haven't had an interest really. Which weapon did the killer have, the AR-15 in the photo above?

---------- Post added at 04:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 PM ----------

I am of the mindset of is that automatic weapons such as the one the Newtown killer had SHOULDN'T be needed by average citizens for anything.

However, as long as they exist then I would rather that sane and responsible people ALSO have them, properly and safely stored, instead of just criminals.

I am also of the mindset that the First Amendment should NOT apply to vulgar speech. However, it's not my place to dictate which Constitutional Rights you are able to express and which you aren't. We don't NEED to use vulgar language but that doesn't mean we don't have the right to.

As long as we're discussing the First Amendment, why do we have the right to associate with known criminal organizations? Why are we free to openly join an organization that commonly engages in violence, yet we cannot be interfered with until AFTER we engage in violence?

Which American Muslim associations has not had key members indicted for funneling money to terrorists? Why do we have the right to associate with and contribute to organizations that have been found guilty of aiding those who want to destroy us?

Which part of the Constitution states that people who contribute $zero to the federal government can influence how much money the rest of us are forced to pay and how it is spent?

If we're going begin infringing on Constitutional Rights then let's discuss ALL of them.

I'd be all for re-writing the Constitution as it applies to society. 500 years from now if Earth still exists, how much of it would still be reasonable based on how life is lead then?

[Bumpus]

I don't claim to know anything about guns b/c TBH I've never used one. I wouldn't mind going to the shooting range sometime and seeing what that's like but I haven't had an interest really. Which weapon did the killer have, the AR-15 in the photo above?

Yes, it was similar to the first pic (Bushmaster AR-15, I believe) in addition to a couple of handguns.


And, hey - if you ever find yourself in the upper Ohio Valley, give me a call. I'll take you out to the range. I love providing an opportunity to shoot for people who've never experienced it. We'll go over the safety rules then fling some lead at paper. It's fun. Afterwards, we'll down a few beers. Open invitation.
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[GoFins!]

He didn't have an automatic weapon.


This is the frustrating/annoying part.

People familiar with guns know that but the truth is, "Semi-automatic" just doesn't sound as scary. You make it sound like you were expecting politicians and the media to engage in a fact-based discussion.


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[ohall]

Ahahaha right. Great rebuttal. I vote in a country where gun control exists and there are 1/10th of gun deaths per capita than in the USA and 1/5th of the murders per capita. Have a think about that. If I moved to America I would be 5 times more likely to be killed and 10 times more likely to be killed with a gun.



Yep because knives and baseball bats are as lethal as a pistol or a rifle. You're making my point. YES people will always want to kill eachother. That's absolutely a given fact. So why on earth are you guys happy living in a country where people have easy access to weapons that make it incredibly easy to do so? If you can get a gun for self defence, it means someone who might want to kill you can get a gun as well. Wouldn't everyone be safer if neither of you could get a gun?

I'm not saying taking everyone's gun away is at all realistic at this point. I'm saying if we could, the US would be a far safer place.




It's nice to live in a country where it is incredibly difficult to obtain or own a gun and almost impossible to obtain an automatic weapon, yes.

They most certainly can be. More to the point, crazy ppl that go and kill ppl in mass won't use bats or knives, they will use something more substantial if somehow a unicorn had its wish and there were no guns. Something like a small bomb. Another issue is you are asking me to to take a knife to a gun fight. Nope not gonna do it. The world you are describing does not exist, never has and never will.

[ohall]

I don't smoke. Thanks for being mature about it. When someone tries to tell me they have a gun solely to protect themselves from intruders yet doesn't have a gun in every room or in every situation you could get into while in your house, the theory of needing a gun to protect yourself is flawed.

Don't get angry with me. That's just the truth. I never said to not have weapons in your home but to make it seem like anyone who comes into your house is ****ed b/c you're packing heat isn't justified IMO.

If you want mature, give mature, ok?

You are basically telling me, because I have good hygiene I shouldn't have a gun, Because I don't carry a gun into the shower my entire belief system concerning guns and home security is flawed. OK!

The real issue to me is if you give an inch on this issue the left will take it all away. I agree with a lot of what some have to say on the left about guns, but I don't trust they will stop at that. And yes I understand ppl on the right are the same on other issues.

---------- Post added at 08:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 PM ----------

I don't claim to know anything about guns b/c TBH I've never used one. I wouldn't mind going to the shooting range sometime and seeing what that's like but I haven't had an interest really. Which weapon did the killer have, the AR-15 in the photo above?

---------- Post added at 04:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 PM ----------



I'd be all for re-writing the Constitution as it applies to society. 500 years from now if Earth still exists, how much of it would still be reasonable based on how life is lead then?

The how can you possibly have an educated POV on this subject?