The crazy talk is if you believe Hartline sees himself as the #4, 5, or 6 WR on this team, much less Ireland paying someone $6mil to be that #4, 5, or 6th WR. Rotfgl
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Originally Posted by uk_dolfan
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Last edited by MrEd; 01-26-2013 at 09:06 AM.
No one is saying those guys are better then hartline but for that $$ that he wants hes not worth it especially if he is going to be the 3rd or 4th WR on this team. Would rather start the 1st or 2nd round WR at the number 2 spot and bess in the slot. We may even draft a guy in the 3rd that could be the #4 or 5 guy. If we land one of the top 3 WR FA there is no room for hartline at that price. Let him catch passes and quickly fall down somewhere else.
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Originally Posted by uk_dolfan
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If Ireland passes on Patterson for a pass rusher at #12, that pushes Patterson back into the mid to late 1st round. Allen, in this scenario becomes 2nd round target and we may need to use our first 2nd rounder to trade up a few spots to land him, but he can very well be an early 2nd round pick. But I'm starting to expect even that Miami will use the 12th pick on Patterson and then trade up from the first 2nd round pick into the late 1st for a DE...or use the 12th on a DE and then use the first 2nd rounder and trade up a few spots for Allen or another WR. And no, in that (we pass on Patterson) scenario, Allen doesn't need to be caught smoking crack or beat up his mom, no.
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Originally Posted by Fin-O
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Bingo! All the pitchfork cries about we won't have the money to sign playmakers if we tag Long, but looking away at the fact that using Hartline's cap space will be needed to sign that TE we need along with the Jennings or Wallace.
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Originally Posted by PlexGod
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It's obvious that Miami assumed that Hartline being in a contract year would produce with Bess, Matthews, and Egnew producing. This is why they stayed put at WR. But he wasn't as impressive as they had envisioned. He had one great game and then went meh...so "meh, let's replace him with a Jennings or Wallace" thinks Ireland.
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I can see where most are coming from but lets not forget the kind of offseason Hartline had prior to this year and how productive he was. Is it possible he could get better now that he can actually work this offseason? Maybe not but I think it's something to think about.
i get the premise but I disagree in 2 regards.
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Originally Posted by MrEd
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#1. I think more teams will be looking for WRs than 2 in the first round. Starting at Buffalo, Jets, Chargers, Dolphins, Panthers, Rams all have a need for WR and that's just in the top 20. I could see as many as 4 WR taken in round 1.
#2. Depending on your system Allen could very well be your #1 WR on the board. If your a West Coast offense like Miami it's very possible you view Keenan as a better fit than Patterson.
Dont get me wrong I would be the happiest man in Columbus if Miami got an Ansah then Allan in the 2nd. I just don't find it very likely.
I have to agree.... i dont see Allen falling to the second under any circumstance. I think he will be our pick at #12 or we trade back and grab patterson. It all depends on the combine and how crazy both of those guys numbers look there. I just think Allen is more polished and is bigger and stronger and has good hands. Reminds me of Marshall but without the headcase problems.
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Originally Posted by Fin-O
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Why don't just let hartline and his 6 million walk, but that towards a productive FA TE.
Trade or release Bess and his salary.
Sign Jennings (yeah a bit on the older side, but perfect fit and mentor for this system).
Draft Patterson at 12 (needs seasoning, but we need some paymakers, he fits the bill).
Follow that up with pretty sure bets in Stedman Bailey in the 2nd and Swopes in the 3rd.
Jennings, Patterson, Bailey, Swopes, Matthews, binn/tyms/fuller
With a Keller/Cook/Bennett at TE is pretty solid.
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In 2011, Hartline was only thrown to 10 times in the Red Zone, not the End Zone, with 3 catches and a TD. So, my take would be that of the 7 targets not caught, maybe 2-3 were in the End Zone and not catch-able. Hard to fault someone for something he had no chance to do. I could not find the 2012 stats.
We all know that we went mostly to Marshall on the end zone before but. I don't remember going to Hartline much at all last year. This is confusing because he has made some great catches in traffic on the sidelines.
If we just go by TD's, do we also need to replace Bess, who also had 1 last year? Do we definitely want to keep Fasano who had 5 last year, and in 2011, with or without Marshall?
Another thought would be Hartline playing in the slot. I'm sure he would do very well, and add some speed over Bess.
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