A SERIOUS Question for Gun Control Proponents

[MoFinz]

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Bahamas =/= Jamaica
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Theres a difference?

My Bad..Next round on me.....or maybe her...

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ALRIGHT DAMMITT...stop the distractions and lets get back on topic

[El Scorcho]

If that is true, how come Cho was able to murder more people at Va. Tech than any of the gunmen held up as poster children for assualt weapons bans. Are you aware he used a glock and a .22?

Maybe you're more scared of the way a rifle looks than a gun. Maybe you have bought into the hype.....but handguns kill way more people every year than "assault weapons", so why the stigmatization?

The main difference between the rifle i showed and the gun i showed, besides what was pointed out earlier, is the rifle is more accurate at a longer distance. In truth, it's bulk makes it more inefficient for the mass murders that have taken place, but perhaps the gunmen were going for style points over kill rate.

As far as your assertion that there is no good reason for a 1st world citizen to keep a gun in their home, i'll say this. Until enlightened citizens like yourself can disarm criminals and stop rapes and violent assaults and home invasions, perhaps you should do as you please and allow law abiding citizens to defend their homes and families in whatever fashion they deem best.

Or did Australian not carry the 2 stories of the 2 ladies recently who had children in the house when intruders crashed in. One lady with a rifle and one lady with a gun protected themselves and their children from criminals that invaded their homes. If your opinion had been fact, who knows what would have happened to the ladies and their children, but the fact is they protected themselves and their kids, because they had firearms and knew how to use them properly.

I'll happily concede this point. On having a quick look I wasn't aware that the glock was semiautomatic. Yes that's arguably worse than the assault rifle because of how easily it can be concealed.

I'd suggest that a semi-automatic weapons ban would be more useful than simply an assault weapons ban that as you've shown.

As for the point with the two ladies and their kids, there are definitely cases where someone having a gun to defend themselves is great, but i'd love to see the stats on murders/rapes prevented by the defence of someone with a gun vs the increase in your murder and gun violence rates because of the easy access to guns. Generally if you can get a gun to defend yourself, then everyone out there who you wouldn't want to have a gun can get one as well.

Can you speak to this information? Thanks!


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Oh wow look at the balanced and well researched article from the "Austin Gun Rights Examiner"

It's totally meaningless anyway because you can't compare the stats in Australia to an Australia without gun control. Countries are too different to compare. Not to mention America still having a much, much higher murder rate regardless.

What your stats do show is that people became considerably more violent in Australia over the period of time but the murder rate and gun violence continued to fall. Imagine what might have happened in lots of those assaults if people had easier access to guns.

[Perfect23]

I know what it is. In fact I own one.

Spoiler 

It's the shotgun.

Yeah those are nice oh wait what was this thread about again

[KTOWNFINFAN]

I'll happily concede this point. On having a quick look I wasn't aware that the glock was semiautomatic. Yes that's arguably worse than the assault rifle because of how easily it can be concealed.

I'd suggest that a semi-automatic weapons ban would be more useful than simply an assault weapons ban that as you've shown.

As for the point with the two ladies and their kids, there are definitely cases where someone having a gun to defend themselves is great, but i'd love to see the stats on murders/rapes prevented by the defence of someone with a gun vs the increase in your murder and gun violence rates because of the easy access to guns. Generally if you can get a gun to defend yourself, then everyone out there who you wouldn't want to have a gun can get one as well.

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So what you are saying is if there were tighter gun laws then those who wanted an illegal gun couldn't get one?? WOW you are so delusional. I could take a flight to the UK, land in London, with NO CONTACTS and have a gun in my hand within 6 hrs. 100%

[KTOWNFINFAN]

It's totally meaningless anyway because you can't compare the stats in Australia to an Australia without gun control. Countries are too different to compare. Not to mention America still having a much, much higher murder rate regardless.

Your logic is so flawed it hurts my brain. The murder rate is NOT higher with those with LEGAL guns. As a matter of fact you are over 9000 times more likely to be killed by a doctor who makes a mistake in America, than someone with a LEGAL gun. Should we ban doctors?? What about cars. There is a much higher chance that you will be killed by a drunk driver than by either guns or doctors. So since some misuse cars and drive cars illegally does that mean all those that use cars correctly have to give up their cars because some use theirs incorrectly?? You don't restrict the innocent to protect and empower the guilty. All giving up guns accomplishes is to remove the guns from the innocent. Those who own guns illegally will certainly not turn in their guns, but now they know they can use their guns with impunity. That is why crime rates go up EVERY TIME there are gun bans. What are you missing?? This isn't hard.

[MoFinz]

Pre-supposing a gun ban would stop gun violence is a laughable fairy tale. Because a bad guy can get a gun, we should tell good people they cant have one? Did your mom not let you have a cookie after she caught your brothers hand in the jar without asking? Of course not.

People that obey the law have a RIGHT (you may want to look up that word) to defend themselves. You didn't know that a glock was a semi-automatic weapon until you looked it up. The glock and the AR as well as a .357 Magnum share a charcterisitic. They all shoot one bullet each time the trigger is pulled. Now then, what gives people like YOU the right to disarm law abiding peoples before you disarm the criminals? Nobody yet has explained that

[MadDog 88]

It's unrealistic to think you will be able to disarm criminals therefore,you cant disarm people who want to protect themselves, their family and their home. The furthest you may get is banning sales at gunshows, records checks through a national data base and banning assault rifles that are easily modified.

[Bumpus]

It's unrealistic to think you will be able to disarm criminals therefore,you cant disarm people who want to protect themselves, their family and their home. The furthest you may get is banning sales at gunshows, records checks through a national data base and banning assault rifles that are easily modified.

But, but, but ...

Then they won't get the warm & fuzzy feeling that they've "done something"

After all, as we all know - criminals would definately respect a gun ban.
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[MadDog 88]

And as this is being debated a report of a workplace shooting in Glendale, Az. Every incident, though unfortunate, is going to be over amplified and used as propaganda.

[NY8123]

Yes.

It's a lot easier to commit a massacre with an assault rifle.

In the 18 years leading up to the 1996 buyback of semiautomatic weapons in Australia, we had 13 massacre incidents with 4 deaths or more. Since 1996 we've had 0. Zero.

Mental health is obviously really really really important and should be focussed on in these discussions, but there is really no good reason for an everyday citizen of a 1st world country to carry a gun or keep a gun in their home.

If someone with mental health issues is having homicidal thoughts, I'd rather there not be a high magazine volume assault rifle anywhere he could get access to it. While the vast, vast majority of gun owners are responsible with their weapons, all it takes is one crazy guy and one automatic weapon to kill a lot of people very quickly.

It has had very little impact on the overall totals in Australia, the article that you quoted in your post is flat out wrong information other than the amount of killings over 4 at a time. Facts and Figures for Australian gun related violence and death buy back years bolded:

In Australia, annual homicides by any means total

2010: 217
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2009: 261
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2008: 251
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2007: 216
2006: 256
2005: 199
2004: 164
2003: 278
2002: 291
2001: 300
1999/00: 302
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1998/99: 327
1997/98: 298
1996/97: 299
1995/96: 302
1994/95: 326
1993/94: 323
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1992/93: 331
1991/92: 313
1990/91: 323
1989/90: 307

In Australia, annual firearm homicides total

2010: 30
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2009: 36
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2008: 27
2007: 28
2006: 41
2005: 15
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2004: 15
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2003: 54
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2002: 45
2001: 47
2000: 57
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1999: 50
1998: 57
1997: 79
1996: 104
1995: 67
1994: 76
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1993: 64
1992: 96
1991: 84
1990: 79
1989: 80
1988: 123

In Australia, annual suicides by any means total

2010: 2,359
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2009: 2,284
2008: 2,340
2007: 2,227
2006: 2,118
2005: 2,101
2004: 2,098
2003: 2,213
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2002: 2,320
2001: 2,454
2000: 2,363
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1999: 2,492
1998: 2,683
1997: 2,720
1996: 2,393
1995: 2,368
1994: 2,258
1993: 2,081
1992: 2,294
1991: 2,360
1990: 2,161
1989: 2,096
1988: 2,197

In Australia, annual firearm suicides total

2010: 162
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2009: 169
2008: 183
2007: 190
2006: 181
2005: 147
2004: 167
2003: 193
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2002: 217
2001: 261
2000: 222
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1999: 269
1998: 235
1997: 329
1996: 382
1995: 388
1994: 420
1993: 431
1992: 488
1991: 505
1990: 486
1989: 450
1988: 521



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