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Thread: 25 years ago today America was reborn

  1. -31
    JackFinfan's Avatar
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    I often wonder whether the people who worship Reagan are doing so because they're regurgitating Hannity, Rush, O'reilly and the right, or if they actually did their own research. Then I see "he ended the cold war" and it removes all doubt...pure regurgitation.

    Reagan, the first president to fully embrace crony capitalism/corporatism. Also, if you take a look at his policies, you could make an argument for him being further to the left than Clinton or Obama.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDFINFAN View Post
    While I liked Ronnie, his policies also moved 500 billions dollars from the middle class to the upper class, things only documentaries will tell you about. I voted for him, but I hated when his policies cut my interest write offs for new cars, I stopped buying brand new cars after that. Now only if I can get my wife to follow suite.
    What type of cars where you buying in 1986 the interest on was more than the $920 ($1080 to $2000) and $1,330 (3670-5000) in reforms increases in standard deduction? Frankly, think the car loan and credit card removals was one of the best parts of the reform along with the deductions increase. Jeez, how much more in credit card dept would be under if people could be deduction interest. Sucked for corporations, 1986 reforms biggest raise in tax's for corporations in history plus capital gains raise from 20% to 28%. But the Reagan-Gephardt-Bradley Tax Reform wasn't just about simplification but structural balance broadening.

    Edit: 500 billion over 30 years? Obama's trickle down economics are kicking Reagan's ass....

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/0...-For-The-Rich#.

    Sat Sep 21, 2013 at 09:43 AM PDT
    Federal Reserve Program Is Socialism For The Rich

    If you have followed any economic news at all you will have heard the term quantitative easing, or QE, which is technocratic shorthand for the Federal Reserve shoveling funds into Wall Street banks to produce a phenomenon known as the "wealth effect." The wealth effect relies principally on trickery. The hope being that people will see higher asset prices, and in a self-fulfilling prophecy, invest and produce more thinking the economy is better - which will make the economy better. So endeth the theory.

    The reality is the Federal Reserve's QE program has made the rich a lot richer and done little to nothing for the poor and middle class - besides screwing people living on fixed incomes. In fact, it has now devolved into a redistribution scheme to take money from poor and middle class workers and give it to the rich - or so says billionaire investor Stanley Druckenmiller.

    Druckenmiller hit the nail on the head. QE and any program that relies on the wealth effect is, in truth, a redistribution of wealth from the lower classes to the rich because the rich are the ones who own the assets that are being inflated. The consequences of the spending however are borne by the lower classes who not only by definition don't own many assets but are forced to deal with higher food and fuel prices the resulting inflation can cause while also getting zero return on any of their small savings due to low or zero interest rates. QE is socialism for the rich and even the 1% are admitting it. Game. Set. Match.

    By the way, this also helps explain the historic inequality that corporate economists seem/pretend to be so mystified by. Why is there such a gap between the haves and the have-nots? Probably because the Federal Reserve is pumping up assets for the haves to the tune of $85 billion, a month.

    So surprise surprise the stock market, income inequality, and poverty are at historic highs at the same time. Actually don't be surprised, it is a direct and completely predictable result of the Federal Reserve's policy of socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor.
    Last edited by Eshlemon; 11-20-2013 at 04:29 PM.
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  3. -33
    DisturbedShifty's Avatar
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    Yep, and made it possible for the corporations to start seizing control of the country.
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  4. -34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferretsquig View Post
    Good ol Ronny...first pres to realize he could just print money to buy his way out of any problems. Managed to triple the national debt in a mere 8 years....very impressive.
    Can't forget how the great Ron started the most devastating war America has ever seen in the War on Drugs, destroying families, enriching drug kingpins including the CIA, countless drug related deaths/murders and completely changing the culture in America.

    What a gem that guy...
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  5. -35
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    Regan and Gorbachev pretty much saved the world.


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  6. -36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackFinfan View Post
    I often wonder whether the people who worship Reagan are doing so because they're regurgitating Hannity, Rush, O'reilly and the right, or if they actually did their own research. Then I see "he ended the cold war" and it removes all doubt...pure regurgitation.

    Reagan, the first president to fully embrace crony capitalism/corporatism. Also, if you take a look at his policies, you could make an argument for him being further to the left than Clinton or Obama.
    I love the guy and I was alive during that time. As far as "own research"...I lived under Carter, and I lived under Regan.
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  7. -37
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoonBoss View Post
    Regan and Gorbachev pretty much saved the world.
    Not really. Detente saved the world. Reagan was just following the playbook that had been laid out for him starting with Harry Truman, who had been pressured by his generals to start a war with Russia they felt was inevitable. Do it now, while we're stronger than them and have the bomb. Truman refused and settled on a strategy of containment of Communism -- which itself caused two wars -- and we essentially bet on our economic system, which proved inestimably stronger than theirs.

    What Kennedy -- and Khrushchev, it must be said -- specifically did to prevent a nuclear war during the Cuban missile crisis is far more than anything Reagan specifically did. I agree that Reagan did a nice job pressing his boot on their necks when he saw the opening, but the Russians knew they were on the brink. Otherwise Gorbachev would have never come to power in the first place.

    It's fashionable among liberals to dismiss the effect that Reagan had on the national character and mood, and I think this is wrong. It's a big part of the president's job, and he did it wonderfully. Likewise conservatives like to dismiss Kennedy when he should be praised for having the same effect.

    When you look back what really gets obscured is that 1964-1972 is the highpoint in American liberalism. What we associate with those years is the big headlines: Vietnam and Watergate. And those events destroyed the legacy of both Johnson and Nixon. But look at what they and the Warren Court (and to a lesser extent the Burger Court) did to fundamentally change the American system for the better. Civil Rights, medicare, education reform, food stamps, clean air, clean water. The list goes on. We came this close to having a Universal Health Care system under Nixon, an opportunity that Ted Kennedy let slip away. Imagine if our health care system ran as well and as cheaply as Canada's.

    Liberals in this country are still fighting to get back to that. If you want to calculate Reagan's huge influence, that's exactly it right there. He changed the game, changed our expectations of normal. He didn't quite take it back to Calvin Coolidge -- despite what some conservatives would have you think -- but he turned back the knob a lot.
    No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferretsquig View Post
    Good ol Ronny...first pres to realize he could just print money to buy his way out of any problems. Managed to triple the national debt in a mere 8 years....very impressive.
    A feat soon to be duplicated by Obama...but without the growth.

    It is hilarious to read posts attacking a great president that restored American from the liberal "malaise". It will happen again in a few years.
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  9. -39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoonBoss View Post
    I love the guy and I was alive during that time. As far as "own research"...I lived under Carter, and I lived under Regan.
    Among Jimma Carters greatest triumphs was giving the Panama canal zone back to Panama and not obliterating Iran when the Shaw came into power by a military coup.
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  10. -40
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    Ronnie could take a bullet better than Kennedy...just saying
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