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Thread: creationism in our schools

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    Alien's Avatar
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    creationism in our schools

    i dont know if this is the right forum to post this in, but i am doing a school report on why i dont think creationism should be taught in our schools, also going along the lines of religon being kept out of our schools.

    i was just looking for some input from some of you on the subject, i would like some replies from both sides of the debate. it would be much appreciated if you reply, thank you.

    In space no one can hear you scream...
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    you can find a pretty good on-going discussion here that may be helpful...

    http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/sh...d.php?t=114805
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    The_Dark_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alien
    i dont know if this is the right forum to post this in, but i am doing a school report on why i dont think creationism should be taught in our schools, also going along the lines of religon being kept out of our schools.

    i was just looking for some input from some of you on the subject, i would like some replies from both sides of the debate. it would be much appreciated if you reply, thank you.
    best way to strengthen your position on it would be to "argue" it with some of the guys in here...You need to take a full look at both ends so you have a well rounded argument.

    My first question to you though would be what exactly is the curriculum of creationalism
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    HansMojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alien
    i dont know if this is the right forum to post this in, but i am doing a school report on why i dont think creationism should be taught in our schools, also going along the lines of religon being kept out of our schools.

    i was just looking for some input from some of you on the subject, i would like some replies from both sides of the debate. it would be much appreciated if you reply, thank you.
    I'm a Christian and I don't think it should be taught in a public school science class. It would fit better in a philosophy class IMHO. But I also would like to see the origin aspects of evolution (big bang, particles to humans, etc.) moved to philosophy class as these are not observable, testable, or provable and rely on faith and yet are presented as dogma (IHMO) to the point that most people seem to think these things have somehow been validated by science. This is different than the study of processes which we can actually observe and test.


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    Quote Originally Posted by HansMojo
    I'm a Christian and I don't think it should be taught in a public school science class. It would fit better in a philosophy class IMHO. But I also would like to see the origin aspects of evolution (big bang, particles to humans, etc.) moved to philosophy class as these are not observable, testable, or provable and rely on faith and yet are presented as dogma (IHMO) to the point that most people seem to think these things have somehow been validated by science. This is different than the study of processes which we can actually observe and test.
    while both are, in effect, theories... evolution is a scientific theory, which justifies it being in science... while creationism/intelligent design is a religious theory which would justify it being in theology classes (or philosophy, if theology is not an available course).

    JMHO
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    The_Dark_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WharfRat
    while both are, in effect, theories... evolution is a scientific theory, which justifies it being in science... while creationism/intelligent design is a religious theory which would justify it being in theology classes (or philosophy, if theology is not an available course).

    JMHO
    At what point though does creationalism go from a religious theory to a scientific idea? What if...and I say if, the missing link between God and science (my opinion) is discovered and that God created the universe could be proven? Does is then become a scientific fact, or a religious fact?

    just tossing it out there to ponder...
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_USA_DS
    At what point though does creationalism go from a religious theory to a scientific idea? What if...and I say if, the missing link between God and science (my opinion) is discovered and that God created the universe could be proven? Does is then become a scientific fact, or a religious fact?

    just tossing it out there to ponder...
    good question really.... perhaps theology and science would be "blended" together in a way....
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    The_Dark_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WharfRat
    good question really.... perhaps theology and science would be "blended" together in a way....
    that's what I'm getting at...

    In ancient history, religion and science were one and the same and to speak otherwise was considered herasey. then as science evolved, there were explainations as to why certain things occurred, biology, anatomy, astronomy...

    But there are some things that still cannot be explained, creation of the universe being one of them. We've gotten so wrapped up in having to see proof or having a theory as to why that maybe we forget the most fundamental explaination that was taught hundreds/thousands of years ago...maybe there's something out there that's greater than I am and that's what created the universe. But because there's no proof, that just can't be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WharfRat
    while both are, in effect, theories... evolution is a scientific theory, which justifies it being in science... while creationism/intelligent design is a religious theory which would justify it being in theology classes (or philosophy, if theology is not an available course).

    JMHO
    Yes, but there is a difference between operational science and origin "science". The origin aspects of evolution theory (and I'm specifically referring to the big bang and the particles to people concept) are unsubstantiated hypothesis and conjecture and have dogmatic significance. These are better left in philosophy class...IMHO. I do not feel this way regarding the incluson of evolutionary processes that we can observe and test. Unfortunately, it can become a religion for people when these things are included.

    The prominent evolutionary biologist Richard Lewontin own words:

    "We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfil many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door."

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    As much as I believe in Evolution, it is still a theory. It is not a law. Until it becomes law it remains a theory.

    Why then do we not allow schools to present different theories so that people can be exposed to the diversity of thought on this or any subject? Creationism is as much a theory as evolution. So is Tom Cruises's theory that we were brought here by aliens.

    I can't prove any of these are right or wrong. I just don't have a problem with schools presenting different views in a subject. This way students get what they need. An education based on reality. People just believe different theories on this subject. I don't understand why teaching that is so threatening. It's not like teachers are supposed to advocate any of the positions, just teach the theory.
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