Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 51

Thread: creationism in our schools

  1. -11
    Blitz's Avatar
    The Big Zonk

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Feb 2002
    Posts:
    8,208
    vCash:
    1000
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by jguig
    As much as I believe in Evolution, it is still a theory. It is not a law. Until it becomes law it remains a theory.

    Why then do we not allow schools to present different theories so that people can be exposed to the diversity of thought on this or any subject? Creationism is as much a theory as evolution. So is Tom Cruises's theory that we were brought here by aliens.
    All theories are not created equally. When creationists can provide some real proof to back up their theory then creationism can be taught in science classes across the nation...
    Quote Quote  

  2. -12
    Miamian's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2001
    Posts:
    6,838
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Jerusalem
    Thanks / No Thanks
    I agree with the posts that Creationism is not scientific (observable, reproduceable, testable data) and that it does not belong in a science class.

    On the other hand, there is the oxymoronic term "scientific dogma." Also, science classes are required, theology is not, therefore Creationism does not receive the same attention.
    Quote Quote  

  3. -13
    HansMojo's Avatar
    Certified Jesus Freak

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Oct 2005
    Posts:
    2,488
    vCash:
    1231
    Loc:
    Hawaii
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz
    All theories are not created equally. When creationists can provide some real proof to back up their theory then creationism can be taught in science classes across the nation...
    Agreed. And when science can do the same for the big bang and particles to people evolution...so that its not just speculation about the unobservable and unrepeatable past...then it should be allowed in school science classes as well.


    Quote Quote  

  4. -14
    jguig's Avatar
    Pro Bowler

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2004
    Posts:
    2,493
    vCash:
    1146
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz
    All theories are not created equally. When creationists can provide some real proof to back up their theory then creationism can be taught in science classes across the nation...
    I didn't realize that you were appointed the judge of which theories are deserving and those which are not. Theories, by definition, haven't been proven. Regardless of evidence that may support one theory or another, they are all still theories.
    Quote Quote  

  5. -15
    Miamian's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2001
    Posts:
    6,838
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Jerusalem
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by jguig
    I didn't realize that you were appointed the judge of which theories are deserving and those which are not. Theories, by definition, haven't been proven. Regardless of evidence that may support one theory or another, they are all still theories.
    I don't think that lack of proof is really the issue here. Rather, it's the methodology by one which arrives at the theory.
    Quote Quote  

  6. -16
    The_Dark_Knight's Avatar
    Defender of the Truth

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Oct 2005
    Posts:
    7,157
    vCash:
    2059
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Miamian
    I don't think that lack of proof is really the issue here. Rather, it's the methodology by one which arrives at the theory.
    Who cares, here's the ironic thing...

    Ask everyone who has posted in this thread if they believe in God and that God did create the universe. If you get truthful responses, I'm willing to bet 90+% will say yes, but ask those same people whether they think that the theory of creationalism should be presented as another possible explaination, not a long drawn out theological course, but just the mere mention of it and why, your reponses will be split down polotical affiliation...which I find so hypocritical. How can you believe something, teach your kids, yet object to the mere mention of it as an alternative theory to scientific question that cannot be answered?
    Quote Quote  

  7. -17
    Miamian's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2001
    Posts:
    6,838
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Jerusalem
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by A_USA_DS
    Who cares, here's the ironic thing...

    Ask everyone who has posted in this thread if they believe in God and that God did create the universe. If you get truthful responses, I'm willing to bet 90+% will say yes, but ask those same people whether they think that the theory of creationalism should be presented as another possible explaination, not a long drawn out theological course, but just the mere mention of it and why, your reponses will be split down polotical affiliation...which I find so hypocritical. How can you believe something, teach your kids, yet object to the mere mention of it as an alternative theory to scientific question that cannot be answered?
    Many people care and why?

    Besides the fact that teaching non-science in a science class is inappropriate, let's not forget that you're living in the U.S. which has a set of laws known as the Constitution. Three of the first ten amendments to the Constitution are at issue here. First, the First Amendment: Congress shall create no law respecting an establishment of religion... teaching a religiously-based theory in a publicly supported institution clearly violates the spirit (pardon the pun) of that law. Second, the Fifth Amendment: Congress shall not deny any citizen equal protection of the laws. FinHeaven has experienced this debate before. You teach one, you teach them all, not just the Judeo-Christian view and that's a whole separate course. The Fourteenth Amendment: No state shall deny any citizen equal protection of the laws. This may be important because school districts are authorized by state governments and states much guarantee equal protection of laws to ALL citizens.
    Quote Quote  

  8. -18
    The_Dark_Knight's Avatar
    Defender of the Truth

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Oct 2005
    Posts:
    7,157
    vCash:
    2059
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Miamian
    Many people care and why?

    Besides the fact that teaching non-science in a science class is inappropriate, let's not forget that you're living in the U.S. which has a set of laws known as the Constitution. Three of the first ten amendments to the Constitution are at issue here. First, the First Amendment: Congress shall create no law respecting an establishment of religion... teaching a religiously-based theory in a publicly supported institution clearly violates the spirit (pardon the pun) of that law. Second, the Fifth Amendment: Congress shall not deny any citizen equal protection of the laws. FinHeaven has experienced this debate before. You teach one, you teach them all, not just the Judeo-Christian view and that's a whole separate course. The Fourteenth Amendment: No state shall deny any citizen equal protection of the laws. This may be important because school districts are authorized by state governments and states much guarantee equal protection of laws to ALL citizens.
    Your argument using the 5th and 14th amendments hold no water in my opinion.

    The argument on the 1st however does. But here's the question...is presenting the thought for ponderous in a science class when it comes to the creation of the universe, that it is possible that a "Supreme Being", be it God, Allah, Muhammad, Buddah or little green aliens from Vulcan, could have created the universe a violation of the 1st amendment?

    As long as you present all possible theories, personally I say no. There is no establisment of a "religion", only an idea that can neither be proven or disproven...just as the big bang theory...it can neither be proven or disproven.

    When you endorse teaching a theory, you must present all possibilities. Not doing so is irresponsible and arrogant, that one theory, which happens to be politically correct, is the only possible theory.
    Quote Quote  

  9. -19
    Miamian's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2001
    Posts:
    6,838
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Jerusalem
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by A_USA_DS
    Your argument using the 5th and 14th amendments hold no water in my opinion.

    The argument on the 1st however does. But here's the question...is presenting the thought for ponderous in a science class when it comes to the creation of the universe, that it is possible that a "Supreme Being", be it God, Allah, Muhammad, Buddah or little green aliens from Vulcan, could have created the universe a violation of the 1st amendment?

    As long as you present all possible theories, personally I say no. There is no establisment of a "religion", only an idea that can neither be proven or disproven...just as the big bang theory...it can neither be proven or disproven.

    When you endorse teaching a theory, you must present all possibilities. Not doing so is irresponsible and arrogant, that one theory, which happens to be politically correct, is the only possible theory.
    First of all, you offer no explanation of why the 5th and 14th Amendments are not applicable.

    I'm out of my field here, so if we have any true experts in astronomy/ astrometrics I invite your correction. But from what I've read there is evidence for big bang in that astronomic research suggests that the universe continues to expand. Therefore data has been collected and a theory formed to explain the data.
    Quote Quote  

  10. -20
    The_Dark_Knight's Avatar
    Defender of the Truth

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Oct 2005
    Posts:
    7,157
    vCash:
    2059
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Miamian
    First of all, you offer no explanation of why the 5th and 14th Amendments are not applicable.

    I'm out of my field here, so if we have any true experts in astronomy/ astrometrics I invite your correction. But from what I've read there is evidence for big bang in that astronomic research suggests that the universe continues to expand. Therefore data has been collected and a theory formed to explain the data.
    The equal protection clause of the 5th and 14th amendments do not apply, in fact by not offering all points of view, there is no protection, but repression...repressing the teaching off all possible theories.

    Equal protection under the law means that all person are treated the same under the law, regardless of race, gender, creed, national origin, etc... Invoking those amendments in this discussion doesn't apply...imho
    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. Creationism (sorry)
    By ABrownLamp in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 185
    Last Post: 05-11-2006, 05:03 PM
  2. Another marriage: Evolution and Creationism
    By Wildbill3 in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-09-2005, 05:59 PM
  3. Poll: Creationism or Evolution?
    By spydertl79 in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 10-04-2005, 03:34 PM
  4. Wow!!! Creationism on the move in schools; from PA to CA...
    By Wildbill3 in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 210
    Last Post: 07-13-2005, 04:37 AM
  5. Victory for Creationism
    By Wildbill3 in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 228
    Last Post: 11-12-2004, 06:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •