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Thread: creationism in our schools

  1. -41
    HansMojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin
    I have never ONCE seen any Scientist claim that the Big Bang theory disproves God.

    In fact, I have never seen any Scientist mention God period when discussing Scientific Theory.
    I don't know about you, but I've read articles in Scientific American and seen shows on PBS and the various Discovery network channels where they bash creationists saying they have no evidence to support their faith in creation...even calling it nonsense and then show how the theory of evolution including their faith in the Big bang disproves God and shows what really happens. Here is a discussion on one such article:

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/home...2/chapter1.asp

    I've posted links to others earlier. I will look them up again if you'd like.


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    Quote Originally Posted by HansMojo
    I don't know about you, but I've read articles in Scientific American and seen shows on PBS and the various Discovery network channels where they bash creationists saying they have no evidence to support their faith in creation...even calling it nonsense and then show how the theory of evolution including their faith in the Big bang disproves God and shows what really happens. Here is a discussion on one such article:

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/home...2/chapter1.asp

    I've posted links to others earlier. I will look them up again if you'd like.
    Seriously, not ONCE have I seen a reputable science say that Evolution or Big Bang Theory DISPROVES God. Yes, Ive seen shows discrediting creation as a science, because its true, creation is not a science. But the topic of God is not something weighed in scientific inquiries.. Read my topic on science for more information.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin
    Cosmology is a science. It is a science based on observation, collection of empirical data, and mathematic extrapolation. Why should that not be allowed within a "science" class?
    Fine. I'll rephrase: faith or religion-based cosmology
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin
    Seriously, not ONCE have I seen a reputable science say that Evolution or Big Bang Theory DISPROVES God. Yes, Ive seen shows discrediting creation as a science, because its true, creation is not a science. But the topic of God is not something weighed in scientific inquiries.. Read my topic on science for more information.
    You might be surprised that I've never once said that I want creationism taught in a public science class and I've always said it comes down to faith. I don't even think I've ever referred to it as creation science...but always creationism.

    But more related to your post, I have seen supposedly reputable scientists attack someone's faith in God and not just the idea that creationism is science. And certainly I've seen it done here on these boards...obviously not by scientists, but by those that are faithful to the dogma of it. But I've also seen a lot of ill informed Christians putting down evolution for the wrong reasons.

    But, please tell me how the idea that matter came out of nowhere and was immediately infinitely compressed and infinitely hot and began expanding to form both space and time billions of years ago is any different than what Christians do regarding their faith in God. How are we going to test the beginning of time and space? And if it cannot ever be tested...then how is this adhereing to science anymore than a creationist who claims God started it all off? Neither can be put in a test tube. Neither can be quatified. They are both faith based.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansMojo
    You might be surprised that I've never once said that I want creationism taught in a public science class and I've always said it comes down to faith. I don't even think I've ever referred to it as creation science...but always creationism.

    But more related to your post, I have seen supposedly reputable scientists attack someone's faith in God and not just the idea that creationism is science. And certainly I've seen it done here on these boards...obviously not by scientists, but by those that are faithful to the dogma of it. But I've also seen a lot of ill informed Christians putting down evolution for the wrong reasons.

    But, please tell me how the idea that matter came out of nowhere and was immediately infinitely compressed and infinitely hot and began expanding to form both space and time billions of years ago is any different than what Christians do regarding their faith in God. How are we going to test the beginning of time and space? And if it cannot ever be tested...then how is this adhereing to science anymore than a creationist who claims God started it all off? Neither can be put in a test tube. Neither can be quatified. They are both faith based.
    It can be tested. Physics and AstroPhysics is a very interesting field, that admittedly, I know little about. But it is my understanding that a good many of the theories are backed by complex mathematical equations. Mathematics is what essentially ties the entire universe together.

    The thing I find interesting about your insistence that Big Bang is just implausible is that the notion that a Divine Being just somehow always existed is equally as implausible. Additionally, I do not see a conflict between the two. If God is "Everything".. The Alpha and the Omega, he is the universe. God is in you, in me, in a tree, in all matter and energy. As such, could not the Big Bang be the birth of God as well as the Universe?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin
    It can be tested. Physics and AstroPhysics is a very interesting field, that admittedly, I know little about. But it is my understanding that a good many of the theories are backed by complex mathematical equations. Mathematics is what essentially ties the entire universe together.
    It is not testable. Yes they can attempt to measure and quantify things like the movement of the universe and the bodies with in it, but they cannot test what began the movement. This is where you have been mislead IMHO. David Hull (famous Biology philosopher) once noted that: "Science is not as empirical as many scientists seem to think it is. Unobserved and even unobservable entities play an important part in it. Science is not just the making of observations: it is the making of inferences on the basis of observations within the framework of a theory"

    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin
    The thing I find interesting about your insistence that Big Bang is just implausible is that the notion that a Divine Being just somehow always existed is equally as implausible. Additionally, I do not see a conflict between the two. If God is "Everything".. The Alpha and the Omega, he is the universe. God is in you, in me, in a tree, in all matter and energy. As such, could not the Big Bang be the birth of God as well as the Universe?
    I never once said that the Big Bang is implausible. I said that the belief in this untestable hypothesis is no different that the belief in God as kickstarting the Universe. They are both outside of Operational science because neither can be put in a test tube and observed and are those matters of faith.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin
    It can be tested. Physics and AstroPhysics is a very interesting field, that admittedly, I know little about. But it is my understanding that a good many of the theories are backed by complex mathematical equations. Mathematics is what essentially ties the entire universe together.

    The thing I find interesting about your insistence that Big Bang is just implausible is that the notion that a Divine Being just somehow always existed is equally as implausible. Additionally, I do not see a conflict between the two. If God is "Everything".. The Alpha and the Omega, he is the universe. God is in you, in me, in a tree, in all matter and energy. As such, could not the Big Bang be the birth of God as well as the Universe?
    The leading "evidence" for Big Bang Theory and Universal expansion is that of microwave background radiation. This is some of the physical, empirical data which supports the "theory".. So it does have some phyiscal backing. Its not just a theory plucked from our imagination..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_...ound_radiation
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin
    The leading "evidence" for Big Bang Theory and Universal expansion is that of microwave background radiation. This is some of the physical, empirical data which supports the "theory".. So it does have some phyiscal backing. Its not just a theory plucked from our imagination..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_...ound_radiation
    It's true that that is considered the leading evidence for the big bang theory. That's good news for Creationists!!!!!!! Here's an article that descibes how the existence of cosmic microwave backgroud radiation fits the creation model more than the evolutionary model:

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i1/microwave.asp

    There are other explanations for this radiation even outside of both creationism and evolutionary theory. Here's one:

    http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Physics-CMBR.htm

    The existence of cosmic microwave background radiation is only proof of the big bang to those that want to believe it. IT'S FAITH! ! !
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansMojo
    It's true that that is considered the leading evidence for the big bang theory. That's good news for Creationists!!!!!!! Here's an article that descibes how the existence of cosmic microwave backgroud radiation fits the creation model more than the evolutionary model:

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i1/microwave.asp

    There are other explanations for this radiation even outside of both creationism and evolutionary theory. Here's one:

    http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Physics-CMBR.htm

    The existence of cosmic microwave background radiation is only proof of the big bang to those that want to believe it. IT'S FAITH! ! !
    Ill try to give that link a read a bit later, I must say that site has an answer/retort for everything.. Its truly amazing. They should add that website as an appendix to the Bible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alien
    i dont know if this is the right forum to post this in, but i am doing a school report on why i dont think creationism should be taught in our schools, also going along the lines of religon being kept out of our schools.

    i was just looking for some input from some of you on the subject, i would like some replies from both sides of the debate. it would be much appreciated if you reply, thank you.

    One thing that has me a bit puzzled is why most assume that when we speak of creationism, they're speaking of God and religion. When the topic of creationism [intelligent design] vs evolution comes up, I'm wondering, why not both? When you think about it, everything has to be created, somehow in one form or another to even exist. Once created, it will then [reproduce] and evolve, or "change". Now whether the "creator" is God or not is another matter entirely. But one thing I do believe is certain and that is everything IS surely created in some way. I let everyone else bang heads and figure out just what is doing the creating!!
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