Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Monster? Honorable? Just plain stupid? Strange story...

  1. -1
    TVs Soupy Sales's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2006
    Posts:
    503
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Orlando
    Thanks / No Thanks

    Monster? Honorable? Just plain stupid? Strange story...

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/11/14/am....ap/index.html

    Long story short: 22 years ago a frat boy rapes a 17 yr old girl. Later he's going through the AA 12 step program and contacted the victim to apologize and try to make amends. The victim eventually turns the apology letter and subsequent email correspondence over to the police as evidence of the rape. The guy is arrested, pleads guilty, and agrees to a 2 year prison term.

    Here's where it gets dicey from a philosophical standpoint: The guy deserves punishment for his crime. However, it appears he may be a better person now than he was when he committed the crime. People sometimes come out of prison worse than they were when they went in. I think this is particularly true when the person isn't completely bad when they go in (there is much anecdotal evidence to confirm this).

    I can't say for sure that this guy really is reformed at this point. I can't say for sure that if he is, he will come out of prison a bad guy again. But what worries me is that it is a distinct possibility that both of those things are true.
    ----><----

    "You only truly own what you can carry on your back at a dead run." -- Daniel Keyes Moran
    Quote Quote  

  2. -2
    King Nate's Avatar
    His Majesty

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Feb 2005
    Posts:
    4,193
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Orlando, Florida
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Um...he was in a 12 step program for drinking and that somehow relates to him being reformed as a rapist? The only thing you should be concerned about in this case is that he only got 2 years. Screw that guy.
    Quote Quote  

  3. -3
    Nappy Roots's Avatar
    Da Dalphins

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Nov 2004
    Posts:
    15,138
    vCash:
    1143
    Loc:
    Flawda
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by King Nate
    Um...he was in a 12 step program for drinking and that somehow relates to him being reformed as a rapist? The only thing you should be concerned about in this case is that he only got 2 years. Screw that guy.

    100% the truth.
    Quote Quote  

  4. -4
    Silverphin's Avatar
    Chairman of the 'Owned! Awards' Commitee

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jul 2005
    Posts:
    6,433
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Lauderdale Lakes, FL
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by King Nate
    Um...he was in a 12 step program for drinking and that somehow relates to him being reformed as a rapist? The only thing you should be concerned about in this case is that he only got 2 years. Screw that guy.
    True.

    Sig by feelthepain

    "...not succumb, but over come...."

    -Alonzo Mourning

    Quote Originally Posted by KiNG
    Zo is a true warrior; he has his ring so to him, he's retiring on top as long as he knows he always gave it his 110% effort.
    Quote Quote  

  5. -5
    Mike13's Avatar
    You could have had free beer, for shame

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    19,227
    vCash:
    5981
    Loc:
    Miami, FL
    Thanks / No Thanks
    He only got 2 years.
    Once Dmac is drafted a Dmac Jersey will spontaneously materialize in the closet of each and every Dolfan...

    ...and not that replica crap either...
    Quote Quote  

  6. -6
    Agent51's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    5,589
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Hawai'i
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by TVs Soupy Sales
    http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/11/14/amends.plea.ap/index.html

    Long story short: 22 years ago a frat boy rapes a 17 yr old girl. Later he's going through the AA 12 step program and contacted the victim to apologize and try to make amends. The victim eventually turns the apology letter and subsequent email correspondence over to the police as evidence of the rape. The guy is arrested, pleads guilty, and agrees to a 2 year prison term.

    Here's where it gets dicey from a philosophical standpoint: The guy deserves punishment for his crime. However, it appears he may be a better person now than he was when he committed the crime. People sometimes come out of prison worse than they were when they went in. I think this is particularly true when the person isn't completely bad when they go in (there is much anecdotal evidence to confirm this).

    I can't say for sure that this guy really is reformed at this point. I can't say for sure that if he is, he will come out of prison a bad guy again. But what worries me is that it is a distinct possibility that both of those things are true.
    IDK if I agree that he shouldn't be punished for the rape, that's a bit far-fetched to me, but I COMPLETELY agree with you that people who go to prison and weren't that bad in the first place come out completely different and worse.

    I have a friend who awhile back used to design hacking programs and do all sorts of stuff with computers, just to see if he could, never with bad intentions. Well, he ended up breaking into the computers at MIT and the pentagon, lol. He got raided by the FBI and long story short he went to prison for a couple years. When he went in he was just a normal dude. He liked computers and was just really laid back. When he came out he had this new facisnation with scamming people and basically making money any way he could without actually working legit jobs, or if he DID work legit jobs he would steal from the job and sell the merchandise to friends or on eBay. He also had a completely different demeanor. He became obsessed with weight-lifting/working out and he went from chill and laid-back to really aggressive and took on an almost "meathead" attitude, where everytime we would drink or party he would end up wanting to fight people.

    I remember one night we partied at his place with a bunch of people then me, him, and our friend Chris went downtown to check out all the tourists (while everyone was still partying in his house, lol). Well, it was like 2am so it was COMPLETELY dead and then we saw this group of kids with a video camera. It was literally only us 3 and that group of maybe 15 guys (they were around our age, I was 19 at the time) downtown. Well, he sees them across the street and goes "lets go fight them" and me and Chris are like "no, that's a REALLY bad idea", but it was too late, he already started crossing the street. Now, I'm not afraid to fight or anything, if I have to throw down I will, but I'm not the type of person that walks around and randomly starts fights with people, and this one was just bad news from the get-go because no matter HOW good a fighter you are, 3 vs 15 is never going to work in your favor. So he walks right up to the kid with the camcorder and just smacks it out of his hand. Then he picks the biggest dude and challenges him to a fight. The whole time me and Chris are apologizing for him and all the guys were like "you better take your friend before he gets killed". It was too late though, the big dude already agreed to fight him on camera, and he got his *** kicked (my friend, not the big dude), and I wanted so bad to jump in and help, but it was his fight, and it was a fair fight, it was one on one, its not liek the other kids were jumping in too, and if I had jumped in it WOULD have started a big brawl.

    So anyway, he gets the crap beat out of him, then a cop starts driving toward us, so we get out of there and Sean is bleeding from the ear pretty bad. The whole way back to his houase he is screaming that he is getting a knife and going back to stab them. We get to his place and he grabs a shirt and presses it to his ear and passes out. The next AM we all wake up and his ear is split WIDE open. He ended up with 9 stitches. Every night after that for like 2 weeks he was downtown looking for the guys to stab them, and it only got worse when he found out they were showing the tape around town to all their friends. He never did find them, but he would have NEVER done anything liek that before prison, he was always the voice of reason whenever one of us were heated about something, now suddenly he always wants to fight and stab people when it gets bad and steal/scam all the time. I don't really talk to him anymore because he is such a different person, I haven't talked to him in about a year, but last time I did he was taking steroids to get big, and I didn't really approve, but he was my friend so I didn't really say much besides "you shouldn't mess with that stuff". Then the 'roid rage started icking in REALLY bad, and that's when I distanced myself from him.

    Anyway, the whole point of that story was to agree witht he fact that people who go to prison who weren't already "career criminals" DEFINATELY come out a different person and with a different mentality.
    Texas Longhorns - 2006 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS :rocker:
    Guy 1: "Were you on steroids?"
    Chazz Michael Michaels: "Yes, yes I was, about a half a cup."

    Keith Richards: "I snorted my father" :rocker:
    Quote Quote  

  7. -7
    TVs Soupy Sales's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2006
    Posts:
    503
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Orlando
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent51
    IDK if I agree that he shouldn't be punished for the rape, that's a bit far-fetched to me, but I COMPLETELY agree with you that people who go to prison and weren't that bad in the first place come out completely different and worse.
    I never said that he "shouldn't be punished for the rape." In fact, I clearly stated the exact opposite. He did the crime, he has to do the time. That's justice.

    My point was, and remains, that in this particular case "justice" will be done but to the (likely) detriment to society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent51
    I have a friend who awhile back used to design hacking programs and do all sorts of stuff with computers, just to see if he could, never with bad intentions. Well, he ended up breaking into the computers at MIT and the pentagon, lol. He got raided by the FBI and long story short he went to prison for a couple years. When he went in he was just a normal dude. He liked computers and was just really laid back. When he came out he had this new facisnation with scamming people and basically making money any way he could without actually working legit jobs, or if he DID work legit jobs he would steal from the job and sell the merchandise to friends or on eBay. He also had a completely different demeanor. He became obsessed with weight-lifting/working out and he went from chill and laid-back to really aggressive and took on an almost "meathead" attitude, where everytime we would drink or party he would end up wanting to fight people.

    I remember one night we partied at his place with a bunch of people then me, him, and our friend Chris went downtown to check out all the tourists (while everyone was still partying in his house, lol). Well, it was like 2am so it was COMPLETELY dead and then we saw this group of kids with a video camera. It was literally only us 3 and that group of maybe 15 guys (they were around our age, I was 19 at the time) downtown. Well, he sees them across the street and goes "lets go fight them" and me and Chris are like "no, that's a REALLY bad idea", but it was too late, he already started crossing the street. Now, I'm not afraid to fight or anything, if I have to throw down I will, but I'm not the type of person that walks around and randomly starts fights with people, and this one was just bad news from the get-go because no matter HOW good a fighter you are, 3 vs 15 is never going to work in your favor. So he walks right up to the kid with the camcorder and just smacks it out of his hand. Then he picks the biggest dude and challenges him to a fight. The whole time me and Chris are apologizing for him and all the guys were like "you better take your friend before he gets killed". It was too late though, the big dude already agreed to fight him on camera, and he got his *** kicked (my friend, not the big dude), and I wanted so bad to jump in and help, but it was his fight, and it was a fair fight, it was one on one, its not liek the other kids were jumping in too, and if I had jumped in it WOULD have started a big brawl.

    So anyway, he gets the crap beat out of him, then a cop starts driving toward us, so we get out of there and Sean is bleeding from the ear pretty bad. The whole way back to his houase he is screaming that he is getting a knife and going back to stab them. We get to his place and he grabs a shirt and presses it to his ear and passes out. The next AM we all wake up and his ear is split WIDE open. He ended up with 9 stitches. Every night after that for like 2 weeks he was downtown looking for the guys to stab them, and it only got worse when he found out they were showing the tape around town to all their friends. He never did find them, but he would have NEVER done anything liek that before prison, he was always the voice of reason whenever one of us were heated about something, now suddenly he always wants to fight and stab people when it gets bad and steal/scam all the time. I don't really talk to him anymore because he is such a different person, I haven't talked to him in about a year, but last time I did he was taking steroids to get big, and I didn't really approve, but he was my friend so I didn't really say much besides "you shouldn't mess with that stuff". Then the 'roid rage started icking in REALLY bad, and that's when I distanced myself from him.

    Anyway, the whole point of that story was to agree witht he fact that people who go to prison who weren't already "career criminals" DEFINATELY come out a different person and with a different mentality.
    I have seen this time and again. I have long since dropped the pretense that prison is a place where people who have done bad things are sent to be "reformed."
    Quote Quote  

  8. -8
    SpurzN703's Avatar
    I like your style Dude

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Oct 2004
    Posts:
    26,609
    vCash:
    19142
    Loc:
    Springfield, VA
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Cam Wake 91Tannehill 172013 Dolphins Logo
    Quote Originally Posted by King Nate
    Um...he was in a 12 step program for drinking and that somehow relates to him being reformed as a rapist? The only thing you should be concerned about in this case is that he only got 2 years. Screw that guy.
    Well hey, least that's 2 years of him getting raped in prison right?



    Quote Quote  

  9. -9
    retired opfinistic's Avatar
    幸灾乐祸

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Aug 2005
    Posts:
    3,623
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Up Yours
    Thanks / No Thanks
    sad story 51.
    Retired Opfinistic
    FH Member 2005 -2009
    Dolfan fan since 1970
    Retired on 7/1/08
    Quote Quote  

  10. -10
    Agent51's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    5,589
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Hawai'i
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by TVs Soupy Sales
    I never said that he "shouldn't be punished for the rape." In fact, I clearly stated the exact opposite. He did the crime, he has to do the time. That's justice.

    My point was, and remains, that in this particular case "justice" will be done but to the (likely) detriment to society.
    I guess I misread what you wrote. I thought you were saying that, while he did the crime, it was years ago and he seems like a better person now thus shouldn't be punished, but I re-read it and now I see that you meant this is a case where it seems like he turned his life around and, even though he deserves to be punished, this is a case where the punishment while prbably hurt more than help, in which case I totally agree.
    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. Is Sean Smith is a crack addict or just plain stupid?
    By insomnia411 in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 02-11-2013, 02:17 PM
  2. You know the Fins are cursed or plain stupid if this happens..
    By mandal24 in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 03-13-2012, 03:30 PM
  3. Are Jets' fans constantly drunk or just plain stupid?
    By ChadHenneShowV2 in forum Beasts of the AFC East
    Replies: 154
    Last Post: 12-23-2009, 01:50 PM
  4. Strange story to tell
    By NewEra8 in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-13-2007, 03:07 PM
  5. I generally like Page 2 but this is plain stupid
    By Quelonio in forum Other Sports
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-27-2005, 12:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •