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Thread: Coryell offense/ Miami new & old offense

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    Coryell offense/ Miami new & old offense

    The Basics of the Coryell Offense
    by Edweirdo. Thanks Eye_Patch for the info on Sid Gillman!
    posted on 2005/05/05
    Raiders head coach Norv Turner runs an offensive system known as the Coryell offense, which Don Coryell devised and brought to the NFL as head coach of the San Diego Chargers in the late 1970s. Simply put, the Coryell offense is the antithesis of the West Coast offense ("WCO"). In recent years, the explosive offenses of the Rams and the Chiefs have brought the Coryell offense back into the spotlight of the NFL. This article discusses:



    How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense
    A brief history of the Coryell offense
    What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense
    What are the advantages of the Coryell offense
    How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense
    The WCO has the following characteristics:


    It is a "ball-control" offense, predicated on the ability of the QB to achieve a high completion percentage
    The receivers often run precise short-to-intermediate routes and a lot of crossing routes and slants. The receivers are expected to pick up yards after the catch
    The QB takes more 3- and 5-step drops as opposed to 7-step drops



    When the QB and WRs are on the same page, it can be difficult to disrupt the rhythm of the offense
    It relies heavily on the receiving skills of backs coming out of the backfield
    The Coryell offense has the following characteristics:

    It is a "stretch-the-field vertically" offense, predicated on the complementary effects of throwing deep and running the football
    The receivers often run intermediate-to-long routes
    The QB takes more 5- and 7-step drops
    It emphasizes maximum pass protection, to protect the QB until the receivers get open downfield

    It is committed to the power running game. The running game opens up opportunities for big downfield completions, and vice versa. Mike Martz, in an interview with Dr. Z of CNN/SI said:

    That's another thing that's critical to the system. Power running. You've got to be able to run the ball when you go to a three-wide receiver set, and you've got to run with power. By that I mean behind zone blocking, which is a big departure from the San Francisco system. Theirs was man-blocking, with a lot of cut-blocks and misdirection. Ours is straight power. Not many people realize this, but if we hadn't have gotten Marshall we were prepared to go with another excellent zone-blocking runner, Robert Holcombe. It takes a certain type, a guy who can run with power, who's good at picking his way through. Stephen Davis is doing that in Washington now, and that's a big reason why their offense is so good...The good thing about zone-block running is that you can keep pounding away. You don't have the negative yardage plays.


    A brief history of the Coryell offense
    The Coryell offense didn't start with Coryell. Sid Gillman was the innovator of the vertical game back in the 1960s. Many members of Gillman's staff, including Al Davis and Dick Vermiel have been adherents to the vertical game ever since. Coryell adapted Gillman's ideas into the system that now bears his name.



    There are several notable implementers of the Coryell offense in the league today: Joe Gibbs in WAS, Mike Martz in STL, Norv Turner in OAK, and Dick Vermeil in KC. Many of these coaches are connected in the coaching tree, starting with Gillman or Coryell. Gibbs served on Coryell's staff in SD and brought the system to Washington. Turner served on Ernie Zampese's staff on the LA Rams and brought the system to Dallas. Martz served on Turner's staff in Washington.

    What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense
    The personnel requirements are significantly different between the Coryell O and WCO. In the Coryell O:

    QBs must be able to throw deep with accuracy. They are typically pocket passers with big arms. Examples of solid Coryell QBs are the Cowboys' HOFer Troy Aikman (6-4 220) and former Ram Kurt Warner (6-2 200)
    WRs must be able to stretch the field. The name of the game is speed and separation. By contrast, the WCO favors physical possession receivers, such as Jerry Rice. Examples of solid Coryell WRs are the Rams' Torry Holt (6-0 195) and the Raiders' Randy Moss (6-4 205)


    RBs carry a heavy load and tend to have good power. Norv Turner in particular has preferred to feed the ball to a feature back (Emmitt Smith in DAL, Terry Allen in WAS, Stephen Davis in WAS, LaDainian Tomlinson in SD, Ricky Williams in MIA). So the Raiders went out in FA and signed former Jet LaMont Jordan (5-10 230) to a big 5 year / $27.5 MM deal to be that workhorse RB. Examples of solid Coryell RBs are former Redskin John Riggins (6-2 230), former Cowboy Emmitt Smith (5-9 215), and the Chiefs' Priest Holmes (5-9 213)


    TEs tend to be strong blockers; they are relied upon heavily in pass protection and in paving the way for RBs in the ground game. In general, the WCO favors TEs with receiving over blocking skills (e.g. the Jets' Doug Jolley) whereas the Coryell O favors the reverse, although obviously a TE who can do both can fit into any system. This explains, in part, why 2004 rookie 7th rounder Courtney Anderson (6-6 270), with his size and ability to run-block, was able to leap-frog former 2nd rounders Doug Jolley (6-4 250) and Teyo Johnson on the Raiders depth chart


    OL tend to be big and physical compared to their WCO counterparts. Some WCO teams have gotten by with smaller OL (e.g. the Niners in the 1990s and the Broncos of recent years), because the linemen are able to block at angles and only need to maintain pass protection for a short period of time. Coryell OL are road graders in the running game, but they must also pass protect on drawn-out deep passing plays. Examples of solid Coryell OLs are the Cowboys' massive (at the time) championship OL in the 1990s and the Chiefs' OL in recent years


    Arguably the best Coryell offense ever was the Rams' "Greatest Show on Turf" team in 1999. They had an awesome set of wideouts (Bruce, Holt, Hakim, and Proehl), a strong OL, and Faulk and Warner in their prime.

    The Raiders have assembled the ingredients to run the Coryell system effectively: a strong-armed accurate deep thrower in Collins; 4 excellent deep threats with Moss, Porter, Curry, and Gabriel at WR; an explosive power back in Jordan; a power-blocking TE in Anderson; and a big, talented offensive line.

    What are the advantages of the Coryell offense
    Run correctly, it is simply an explosive offense, capable of big plays at any time. It puts opposing defenses in a bind: does the defense defend the deep ball, thereby weakening its run support, or does it defend the run, thereby leaving itself vulnerable to big plays downfield?

    There are some folks, including Al Davis, who feel that defenses have caught up with the WCO, esp with systems such as the Dungy Cover 2 defense. In Dungy's system, the WRs are bumped from their timing routes by press coverage by the CBs, the LBs are fast and have strong coverage ability, and the DL is quick and disruptive. These elements all counter strengths of the WCO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia4ever View Post
    The Basics of the Coryell Offense
    by Edweirdo. Thanks Eye_Patch for the info on Sid Gillman!
    posted on 2005/05/05
    Raiders head coach Norv Turner runs an offensive system known as the Coryell offense, which Don Coryell devised and brought to the NFL as head coach of the San Diego Chargers in the late 1970s. Simply put, the Coryell offense is the antithesis of the West Coast offense ("WCO"). In recent years, the explosive offenses of the Rams and the Chiefs have brought the Coryell offense back into the spotlight of the NFL. This article discusses:


    How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense
    A brief history of the Coryell offense
    What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense
    What are the advantages of the Coryell offense
    How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense
    The WCO has the following characteristics:


    It is a "ball-control" offense, predicated on the ability of the QB to achieve a high completion percentage
    The receivers often run precise short-to-intermediate routes and a lot of crossing routes and slants. The receivers are expected to pick up yards after the catch
    The QB takes more 3- and 5-step drops as opposed to 7-step drops


    When the QB and WRs are on the same page, it can be difficult to disrupt the rhythm of the offense
    It relies heavily on the receiving skills of backs coming out of the backfield
    The Coryell offense has the following characteristics:

    It is a "stretch-the-field vertically" offense, predicated on the complementary effects of throwing deep and running the football
    The receivers often run intermediate-to-long routes
    The QB takes more 5- and 7-step drops
    It emphasizes maximum pass protection, to protect the QB until the receivers get open downfield

    It is committed to the power running game. The running game opens up opportunities for big downfield completions, and vice versa. Mike Martz, in an interview with Dr. Z of CNN/SI said:

    That's another thing that's critical to the system. Power running. You've got to be able to run the ball when you go to a three-wide receiver set, and you've got to run with power. By that I mean behind zone blocking, which is a big departure from the San Francisco system. Theirs was man-blocking, with a lot of cut-blocks and misdirection. Ours is straight power. Not many people realize this, but if we hadn't have gotten Marshall we were prepared to go with another excellent zone-blocking runner, Robert Holcombe. It takes a certain type, a guy who can run with power, who's good at picking his way through. Stephen Davis is doing that in Washington now, and that's a big reason why their offense is so good...The good thing about zone-block running is that you can keep pounding away. You don't have the negative yardage plays.


    A brief history of the Coryell offense
    The Coryell offense didn't start with Coryell. Sid Gillman was the innovator of the vertical game back in the 1960s. Many members of Gillman's staff, including Al Davis and Dick Vermiel have been adherents to the vertical game ever since. Coryell adapted Gillman's ideas into the system that now bears his name.


    There are several notable implementers of the Coryell offense in the league today: Joe Gibbs in WAS, Mike Martz in STL, Norv Turner in OAK, and Dick Vermeil in KC. Many of these coaches are connected in the coaching tree, starting with Gillman or Coryell. Gibbs served on Coryell's staff in SD and brought the system to Washington. Turner served on Ernie Zampese's staff on the LA Rams and brought the system to Dallas. Martz served on Turner's staff in Washington.

    What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense
    The personnel requirements are significantly different between the Coryell O and WCO. In the Coryell O:

    QBs must be able to throw deep with accuracy. They are typically pocket passers with big arms. Examples of solid Coryell QBs are the Cowboys' HOFer Troy Aikman (6-4 220) and former Ram Kurt Warner (6-2 200)
    WRs must be able to stretch the field. The name of the game is speed and separation. By contrast, the WCO favors physical possession receivers, such as Jerry Rice. Examples of solid Coryell WRs are the Rams' Torry Holt (6-0 195) and the Raiders' Randy Moss (6-4 205)


    RBs carry a heavy load and tend to have good power. Norv Turner in particular has preferred to feed the ball to a feature back (Emmitt Smith in DAL, Terry Allen in WAS, Stephen Davis in WAS, LaDainian Tomlinson in SD, Ricky Williams in MIA). So the Raiders went out in FA and signed former Jet LaMont Jordan (5-10 230) to a big 5 year / $27.5 MM deal to be that workhorse RB. Examples of solid Coryell RBs are former Redskin John Riggins (6-2 230), former Cowboy Emmitt Smith (5-9 215), and the Chiefs' Priest Holmes (5-9 213)


    TEs tend to be strong blockers; they are relied upon heavily in pass protection and in paving the way for RBs in the ground game. In general, the WCO favors TEs with receiving over blocking skills (e.g. the Jets' Doug Jolley) whereas the Coryell O favors the reverse, although obviously a TE who can do both can fit into any system. This explains, in part, why 2004 rookie 7th rounder Courtney Anderson (6-6 270), with his size and ability to run-block, was able to leap-frog former 2nd rounders Doug Jolley (6-4 250) and Teyo Johnson on the Raiders depth chart


    OL tend to be big and physical compared to their WCO counterparts. Some WCO teams have gotten by with smaller OL (e.g. the Niners in the 1990s and the Broncos of recent years), because the linemen are able to block at angles and only need to maintain pass protection for a short period of time. Coryell OL are road graders in the running game, but they must also pass protect on drawn-out deep passing plays. Examples of solid Coryell OLs are the Cowboys' massive (at the time) championship OL in the 1990s and the Chiefs' OL in recent years


    Arguably the best Coryell offense ever was the Rams' "Greatest Show on Turf" team in 1999. They had an awesome set of wideouts (Bruce, Holt, Hakim, and Proehl), a strong OL, and Faulk and Warner in their prime.

    The Raiders have assembled the ingredients to run the Coryell system effectively: a strong-armed accurate deep thrower in Collins; 4 excellent deep threats with Moss, Porter, Curry, and Gabriel at WR; an explosive power back in Jordan; a power-blocking TE in Anderson; and a big, talented offensive line.

    What are the advantages of the Coryell offense
    Run correctly, it is simply an explosive offense, capable of big plays at any time. It puts opposing defenses in a bind: does the defense defend the deep ball, thereby weakening its run support, or does it defend the run, thereby leaving itself vulnerable to big plays downfield?

    There are some folks, including Al Davis, who feel that defenses have caught up with the WCO, esp with systems such as the Dungy Cover 2 defense. In Dungy's system, the WRs are bumped from their timing routes by press coverage by the CBs, the LBs are fast and have strong coverage ability, and the DL is quick and disruptive. These elements all counter strengths of the WCO.
    Which means there is a chance that DC could adapt to this season.

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    Its more the Zampese system which is based on the Coryell system that Cam runs, along with Martz.

    Martz was quoted when interviewing for the job that he would rather have Gus F. run the offense for him.
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    GREAT READ!!!

    Judging by this CPEP could technically adapt to this offense. What scares me sh1tless is the amount of 5 - 7 step drops. Can you imagine Culpepper doing those last year???
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    I like it, it should open up the whole field if we can actually have a deep passing threat for once. The running game will also thrive in this offense as it usually does becasue the safeties stay out of the box mostly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverphin View Post
    Which means there is a chance that DC could adapt to this season.
    And it sounds like the perfect system for Ronnie too .
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    Lets take this analyze a step further In our opinion Who Fixes this offense
    who Don't.


    8 Culpepper, Daunte QB 6-4 255 29 Central Florida - very strong arm
    but not very accuracy on medium routes
    17 Lemon, Cleo QB 6-2 215 26 Arkansas St. - unknown



    Top
    Running Backs
    No Name Pos Height Weight Age College
    23 Brown, Ronnie RB 6-1 232 24 Auburn -Ronnie brown is the one back who could preform well in any offense as long as he's not injured
    38 Cobbs, Patrick RB 5-9 205 23 North Texas -unknown




    Top
    Wide Receivers
    No Name Pos Height Weight Age College
    16 Vick, Marcus WR 6-0 216 22 Virginia Tech
    82 Hagan, Derek WR 6-2 203 21 Arizona State -(wait and see mode )but due to his 40 time derek is not the ideal WR in this offense
    84 Chambers, Chris WR 5-11 210 27 Wisconsin - Chambers in college was a long ball pass catcher /in the Pro Chris is more of a possession WR ,but Chris should do well ,bc the Offense is similar to what was ran 2 season ago
    86 Booker, Marty WR 6-0 210 29 Louisiana-Monroe -IMO Marty don't not fix / not much speed a little quickness when cross the middle of the field




    Top
    Tight Ends
    No Name Pos Height Weight Age College

    87 Peelle, Justin TE 6-4 255 27 Oregon -very good blocker





    Top
    Offensive Line
    No Name Pos Height Weight Age College
    66 Hadnot, Rex C 6-2 325 24 Houston -
    70 Shelton, L.J. T 6-6 345 30 Eastern Michigan -
    72 Carey, Vernon T 6-5 335 24 Miami -
    79 Alabi, Anthony T 6-5 315 25 Texas Christian -need to add wt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverphin View Post
    Which means there is a chance that DC could adapt to this season.
    Kind of sounds like the offense that Denny Green ran in Minnesota that DC already played in:

    The offense that Vikings have run since Dennis Green became the head coach and Brian Billick ran the offense has been viewed by most as a hybrid of the offense that Joe Gibbs popularized in the 1980s – a combination of a power running game behind a huge offensive line and the deep strike capability that can create big plays.
    Special Thanks to CrunchTime for the banners
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia4ever View Post
    Lets take this analyze a step further In our opinion Who Fixes this offense
    who Don't.

    8 Culpepper, Daunte QB 6-4 255 29 Central Florida - very strong arm
    but not very accuracy on medium routes
    17 Lemon, Cleo QB 6-2 215 26 Arkansas St. - unknown

    Top
    Running Backs
    No Name Pos Height Weight Age College
    23 Brown, Ronnie RB 6-1 232 24 Auburn -Ronnie brown is the one back who could preform well in any offense as long as he's not injured
    38 Cobbs, Patrick RB 5-9 205 23 North Texas -unknown

    Top
    Wide Receivers
    No Name Pos Height Weight Age College
    16 Vick, Marcus WR 6-0 216 22 Virginia Tech
    82 Hagan, Derek WR 6-2 203 21 Arizona State -(wait and see mode )but due to his 40 time derek is not the ideal WR in this offense
    84 Chambers, Chris WR 5-11 210 27 Wisconsin - Chambers in college was a long ball pass catcher /in the Pro Chris is more of a possession WR ,but Chris should do well ,bc the Offense is similar to what was ran 2 season ago
    86 Booker, Marty WR 6-0 210 29 Louisiana-Monroe -IMO Marty don't not fix / not much speed a little quickness when cross the middle of the field

    Top
    Tight Ends
    No Name Pos Height Weight Age College

    87 Peelle, Justin TE 6-4 255 27 Oregon -very good blocker

    Top
    Offensive Line
    No Name Pos Height Weight Age College
    66 Hadnot, Rex C 6-2 325 24 Houston -
    70 Shelton, L.J. T 6-6 345 30 Eastern Michigan -
    72 Carey, Vernon T 6-5 335 24 Miami -
    79 Alabi, Anthony T 6-5 315 25 Texas Christian -need to add wt.

    How is Derek Hagan's 4.42 40 speed not a good fit for this offense?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia4ever View Post
    The Basics of the Coryell Offense
    by Edweirdo. Thanks Eye_Patch for the info on Sid Gillman!
    posted on 2005/05/05
    Raiders head coach Norv Turner runs an offensive system known as the Coryell offense, which Don Coryell devised and brought to the NFL as head coach of the San Diego Chargers in the late 1970s. Simply put, the Coryell offense is the antithesis of the West Coast offense ("WCO"). In recent years, the explosive offenses of the Rams and the Chiefs have brought the Coryell offense back into the spotlight of the NFL. This article discusses:


    How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense
    A brief history of the Coryell offense
    What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense
    What are the advantages of the Coryell offense
    How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense
    The WCO has the following characteristics:


    It is a "ball-control" offense, predicated on the ability of the QB to achieve a high completion percentage
    The receivers often run precise short-to-intermediate routes and a lot of crossing routes and slants. The receivers are expected to pick up yards after the catch
    The QB takes more 3- and 5-step drops as opposed to 7-step drops


    When the QB and WRs are on the same page, it can be difficult to disrupt the rhythm of the offense
    It relies heavily on the receiving skills of backs coming out of the backfield
    The Coryell offense has the following characteristics:

    It is a "stretch-the-field vertically" offense, predicated on the complementary effects of throwing deep and running the football
    The receivers often run intermediate-to-long routes
    The QB takes more 5- and 7-step drops
    It emphasizes maximum pass protection, to protect the QB until the receivers get open downfield

    It is committed to the power running game. The running game opens up opportunities for big downfield completions, and vice versa. Mike Martz, in an interview with Dr. Z of CNN/SI said:

    That's another thing that's critical to the system. Power running. You've got to be able to run the ball when you go to a three-wide receiver set, and you've got to run with power. By that I mean behind zone blocking, which is a big departure from the San Francisco system. Theirs was man-blocking, with a lot of cut-blocks and misdirection. Ours is straight power. Not many people realize this, but if we hadn't have gotten Marshall we were prepared to go with another excellent zone-blocking runner, Robert Holcombe. It takes a certain type, a guy who can run with power, who's good at picking his way through. Stephen Davis is doing that in Washington now, and that's a big reason why their offense is so good...The good thing about zone-block running is that you can keep pounding away. You don't have the negative yardage plays.


    A brief history of the Coryell offense
    The Coryell offense didn't start with Coryell. Sid Gillman was the innovator of the vertical game back in the 1960s. Many members of Gillman's staff, including Al Davis and Dick Vermiel have been adherents to the vertical game ever since. Coryell adapted Gillman's ideas into the system that now bears his name.


    There are several notable implementers of the Coryell offense in the league today: Joe Gibbs in WAS, Mike Martz in STL, Norv Turner in OAK, and Dick Vermeil in KC. Many of these coaches are connected in the coaching tree, starting with Gillman or Coryell. Gibbs served on Coryell's staff in SD and brought the system to Washington. Turner served on Ernie Zampese's staff on the LA Rams and brought the system to Dallas. Martz served on Turner's staff in Washington.

    What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense
    The personnel requirements are significantly different between the Coryell O and WCO. In the Coryell O:

    QBs must be able to throw deep with accuracy. They are typically pocket passers with big arms. Examples of solid Coryell QBs are the Cowboys' HOFer Troy Aikman (6-4 220) and former Ram Kurt Warner (6-2 200)
    WRs must be able to stretch the field. The name of the game is speed and separation. By contrast, the WCO favors physical possession receivers, such as Jerry Rice. Examples of solid Coryell WRs are the Rams' Torry Holt (6-0 195) and the Raiders' Randy Moss (6-4 205)


    RBs carry a heavy load and tend to have good power. Norv Turner in particular has preferred to feed the ball to a feature back (Emmitt Smith in DAL, Terry Allen in WAS, Stephen Davis in WAS, LaDainian Tomlinson in SD, Ricky Williams in MIA). So the Raiders went out in FA and signed former Jet LaMont Jordan (5-10 230) to a big 5 year / $27.5 MM deal to be that workhorse RB. Examples of solid Coryell RBs are former Redskin John Riggins (6-2 230), former Cowboy Emmitt Smith (5-9 215), and the Chiefs' Priest Holmes (5-9 213)


    TEs tend to be strong blockers; they are relied upon heavily in pass protection and in paving the way for RBs in the ground game. In general, the WCO favors TEs with receiving over blocking skills (e.g. the Jets' Doug Jolley) whereas the Coryell O favors the reverse, although obviously a TE who can do both can fit into any system. This explains, in part, why 2004 rookie 7th rounder Courtney Anderson (6-6 270), with his size and ability to run-block, was able to leap-frog former 2nd rounders Doug Jolley (6-4 250) and Teyo Johnson on the Raiders depth chart


    OL tend to be big and physical compared to their WCO counterparts. Some WCO teams have gotten by with smaller OL (e.g. the Niners in the 1990s and the Broncos of recent years), because the linemen are able to block at angles and only need to maintain pass protection for a short period of time. Coryell OL are road graders in the running game, but they must also pass protect on drawn-out deep passing plays. Examples of solid Coryell OLs are the Cowboys' massive (at the time) championship OL in the 1990s and the Chiefs' OL in recent years


    Arguably the best Coryell offense ever was the Rams' "Greatest Show on Turf" team in 1999. They had an awesome set of wideouts (Bruce, Holt, Hakim, and Proehl), a strong OL, and Faulk and Warner in their prime.

    The Raiders have assembled the ingredients to run the Coryell system effectively: a strong-armed accurate deep thrower in Collins; 4 excellent deep threats with Moss, Porter, Curry, and Gabriel at WR; an explosive power back in Jordan; a power-blocking TE in Anderson; and a big, talented offensive line.

    What are the advantages of the Coryell offense
    Run correctly, it is simply an explosive offense, capable of big plays at any time. It puts opposing defenses in a bind: does the defense defend the deep ball, thereby weakening its run support, or does it defend the run, thereby leaving itself vulnerable to big plays downfield?

    There are some folks, including Al Davis, who feel that defenses have caught up with the WCO, esp with systems such as the Dungy Cover 2 defense. In Dungy's system, the WRs are bumped from their timing routes by press coverage by the CBs, the LBs are fast and have strong coverage ability, and the DL is quick and disruptive. These elements all counter strengths of the WCO.
    If Culpepper is 100% healthy mentally and physically technically he would be the right fit with his ability to throw deep. Get a #1 receiver in tandem with CC and you got the basics. As far as power running getting Ricky back in tandem with RB and we have that too. No healthy CPep then get your man in the draft this year.

    Also I agree with the theory that defenses have caught up to WCO. So many teams are running the WCO that defenses have plenty of chances to develop ways to deflect its effectiveness. I don't see a lot of new rinkles in a system that pretty much has been exploited to its max. There are a lot of LBs who have good coverage skills in this league and CBs are learning how to be in the faces of receivers yet play within the new rules of enforcing the no push rule past five yars.
    Quote Quote  

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