Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Pro Football Weekly's Draft Q&A (good info)

  1. -1
    CJGoCanes's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jan 2008
    Posts:
    228
    vCash:
    1000
    Thanks / No Thanks

    Pro Football Weekly's Draft Q&A (good info)

    Some really good insight on a lot of the Dolphins prospects.

    Chris Long:
    For anyone to project him as the best player in this draft I think would be surprising —I certainly have not heard a single evaluator ever reference him as that. He is a well-trained, highly productive football player. However, as you singled out with his 40-times that we reported, which were averaged from the hand-held results at the Combine — not the best electronic time, which was initially released by the NFL to encourage players to perform at the workout — the reality is that I do NOT think Long is an elite athlete. And if you watch the tape of some of the better competition he has faced, such as Boston College and Pittsburgh and even Texas Tech, I think you’ll see that he struggled to make his presence felt as a pass rusher. As you mentioned, his best fit in a 4-3 front would be as a strong-side, base end — which still holds a lot of value, but arguably not as much as a premium pass rusher who consistently pressures the quarterback.

    Bottom line: Chris Long does not show the burst to get to the quarterback off the edge on third downs, he is light and narrow-framed to play inside and he has little experience from a rush LB role. As a result, any 3-4 team that drafts him in the top 10 to be a 3-4 outside ’backer would be making a projection, which is usually a very scary proposition to make at any position in the draft’s top 10, given the investment that the selections require.
    Need for a strong front 7:
    Many think that, because of today's rules, it puts a premium on cover corners. My thinking is just the opposite. Since the current rules (which I feel are a joke) on downfield contact don't even allow for the position to be played effectively, why invest heavily on coverage skills? My philosophy is that, I would never even take a corner higher than the third, and would rather invest my quality picks on "D" on the surrounding positions (front seven/safeties), and would pick my corners more for their open-field/run-supporting tackling skills vs. coverage skills. That being said, and factoring current roster/team needs/strength of draft, I don't see the Dolphins taking a cornerback in the first 100 picks. Your thoughts?

    — William Gillespie

    William,

    Clearly football games are won in the trenches. I’m a staunch proponent of smashmouth, power football and a big believer that the most physical football team usually dominates. Most teams that control the line of scrimmage generally win a lot of football games. Defensively, if you look at how the NFL’s final four teams — the Patriots, Giants, Chargers and Packers — were built, I think you’ll see the importance of drafting pass rushers. Roster depth would dictate whether I would consider drafting a cornerback earlier than the third round, but if given the choice between a good pass rusher and a great cornerback, I would tend to go with the pass rusher who can make the cornerback great. To me, the Dolphins have to get better up front on both sides of the ball first and foremost.
    Jake Long:
    Please tell me that Jake Long isn't another Robert Gallery. Maybe I'm getting hysterical here, but didn't Gallery have the same glowing reports as Jake Long does now. Gallery couldn't handle speed rushers at all. Please tell me I'm wrong.

    — Chris Craig, San Diego

    Chris,

    Outside of both having played in the Big Ten, I don’t think the two players could be described in the same sentence. There were evaluators in the NFL when Gallery entered the draft — some even on the Oakland Raiders’ staff, who were obviously tuned out by Al Davis — who felt that Gallery’s short arms would never allow him to be more than a guard in the NFL. His lack of base strength and power have also been regularly exposed in the pros. Jake Long has long arms, is bigger, stronger and much more powerful in the lower body.

    I could see where some concerns could creep in. Florida DE Derrick Harvey showed that Long could be caught off-guard. But Long looked much more comfortable in the second half and helped shut down Harvey later in the game, never giving up a sack. Vernon Gholston also gave Long trouble throughout his career, but keep in mind that Gholston is as physically gifted as most any pass rusher in the NFL and represents the highest level of competition Long will see in the pros.

    The reality is that Long was not utilized in a blocking scheme that best displayed his talents during his final two years of college. When asked to come off the ball flat-backed and move a defender one-on-one, he is extremely powerful as a run blocker. So, to answer your question, evaluators see Long much more closely resembling Tony Boselli or Jumbo Elliott than Gallery, whose arm length and base strength limitations have proven to make him best-suited inside.
    Antoine Cason
    Antoine Cason is interesting. His overall production, ball skills and instincts catch attention, and he has continually proven wrong those who overlooked his ability coming out of high school. In a predominantly zone scheme, I think he could be very effective, but zone corners typically are not valued highly in the draft. Pro Bowlers such as Ronde Barber and Nathan Vasher were not drafted until the middle rounds. Cason worked out better than both and could be drafted earlier than either. He is a far better football player than Molden, who looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane, but his overall physical ability is a notch below Lee’s or Godfrey’s.
    Quote Quote  

  2. -2
    SR 7's Avatar
    Waterlogged

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Feb 2006
    Posts:
    8,755
    vCash:
    1184
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by CJGoCanes View Post
    Some really good insight on a lot of the Dolphins prospects.

    Chris Long:


    Need for a strong front 7:


    Jake Long:


    Antoine Cason
    awesome read! thanks a lot!

    I LOVE THAT JAKE LONG INFO AND THE REST!

    also regarding the Long doenst have the speed thing, I mentioned that 2 months ago and i said he has that JT speed, NOT FAST but slightly quick speed. and i got BOMBED ON! with a lot of the "experts" on this board too.

    I think we go Jake Long round 1 and Avril 2b with a WR 2B, then a G/CB at 3 and the other if not a TE at 4.
    Quote Quote  

  3. -3
    B.Sebo's Avatar
    Certified HogPhin Trainer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2001
    Posts:
    393
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    West Arkansas
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Hmm, thanks for the info, excellent.

    The thoughts on Chris seem to be what has echoed from most of the experts, he is just not a guy I would count out.

    The Jake stuff just affirms my belief in that he should be our pick.

    Does anybody know what our defense will run as far as coverage goes? I have been a huge advocate of Cason, but if we don't run a zone we maybe should look elsewhere.
    Quote Quote  

  4. -4
    CJGoCanes's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jan 2008
    Posts:
    228
    vCash:
    1000
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by B.Sebo View Post
    Hmm, thanks for the info, excellent.

    The thoughts on Chris seem to be what has echoed from most of the experts, he is just not a guy I would count out.

    The Jake stuff just affirms my belief in that he should be our pick.

    Does anybody know what our defense will run as far as coverage goes? I have been a huge advocate of Cason, but if we don't run a zone we maybe should look elsewhere.
    As have I of Cason. I thought he was more of a cover guy, sticking on the opposing WR's hip
    Quote Quote  

  5. -5
    Waterlogged

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2008
    Posts:
    585
    vCash:
    1032
    Thanks / No Thanks
    I dont know where he got Molden plays like Jane. No One ever threw at him in college he shut down everyone. He didnt have a lot of INTs because they threw to the other side of the field. If hes there at #64 id jump on him. I have seen mocks with him going between 37-45 and these are mocks like walterfootball.com. He had a great combine and have heard many good things about him.
    Quote Quote  

  6. -6
    TheBow305's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2008
    Posts:
    1,451
    vCash:
    1087
    Loc:
    The Dirty Dirty
    Thanks / No Thanks
    I think this is the exact reason that Chris Long has fallen out of favor with Parcells as the #1 pick. It WILL be either Gholston or Jake Long.

    Dream Phins Draft (As of 5/6):
    1. C.J. Mosley 2. Kelvin Benjamin 2. Ju'Waun James 4. De'Anthony Thomas 5. Xavier Grimble 6. Brandon Linder 7. Nevin Lawson
    Quote Quote  

  7. -7
    CJGoCanes's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jan 2008
    Posts:
    228
    vCash:
    1000
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Just realized I didn't post a link, sorry

    http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW...8/qa041608.htm
    Quote Quote  

  8. -8
    adamprez2003's Avatar
    FinHeaven VIP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2004
    Posts:
    11,681
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    New York
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by B.Sebo View Post
    Hmm, thanks for the info, excellent.

    The thoughts on Chris seem to be what has echoed from most of the experts, he is just not a guy I would count out.

    The Jake stuff just affirms my belief in that he should be our pick.

    Does anybody know what our defense will run as far as coverage goes? I have been a huge advocate of Cason, but if we don't run a zone we maybe should look elsewhere.
    the most important thing a Parcells crnerback can do is support the run. If they dont tackle they dont play. Charles Godfrey is a Parcells type. Tracy Porter probably aint
    Better than Chris Long and Vernon Gholston
    PHILLIP MERLING
    Quote Quote  

  9. -9
    Breed's Avatar
    Pro Bowler

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jan 2004
    Posts:
    1,958
    vCash:
    1113
    Loc:
    United States
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by CJGoCanes View Post
    For anyone to project him as the best player in this draft I think would be surprising —I certainly have not heard a single evaluator ever reference him as that. He is a well-trained, highly productive football player. However, as you singled out with his 40-times that we reported, which were averaged from the hand-held results at the Combine — not the best electronic time, which was initially released by the NFL to encourage players to perform at the workout — the reality is that I do NOT think Long is an elite athlete. And if you watch the tape of some of the better competition he has faced, such as Boston College and Pittsburgh and even Texas Tech, I think you’ll see that he struggled to make his presence felt as a pass rusher. As you mentioned, his best fit in a 4-3 front would be as a strong-side, base end — which still holds a lot of value, but arguably not as much as a premium pass rusher who consistently pressures the quarterback.

    Bottom line: Chris Long does not show the burst to get to the quarterback off the edge on third downs, he is light and narrow-framed to play inside and he has little experience from a rush LB role. As a result, any 3-4 team that drafts him in the top 10 to be a 3-4 outside ’backer would be making a projection, which is usually a very scary proposition to make at any position in the draft’s top 10, given the investment that the selections require.
    I have to call BS on the Chris Long part, that guy has no clue what he's talking about.

    These are the averages of every single first round pick DE/LB since 2002, not exactly cream puff competition.

    40 yard dash
    Average LB listed: 4.63 (248 pounds)*Pro Day results included
    Average DE listed: 4.71 (271 pounds)*Pro Day results included
    Chris Long: 4.75 (272 pounds)

    20 yard dash
    Average LB listed: 2.70 (246 pounds)*Pro Day results included
    Chris Long: 2.70 (272 pounds)
    Average DE listed: 2.75 (268 pounds)* Pro Day results included

    10 yard dash
    Chris Long: 1.53 (272 pounds)
    Average LB listed: 1.60 (246 pounds)*Pro Day results included
    Average DE listed: 1.62 (268 pounds)*Pro Day results included

    This is the equivalent of more than a tenth of a second difference in the 40 dash, between Chris Long and the average LB listed. The difference between Long and the average DE listed is probably closer to .15 of a second, and people actually question his quickness?

    20 yard shuttle
    Average LB listed: 4.20 (247 pounds)*Pro Day results included
    Chris Long: 4.21 (272 pounds)
    Average DE listed: 4.30 (271 pounds)*Pro Day results included

    3 cone drill
    Average LB listed: 7.02 (245 pounds)*Pro Day results
    Chris Long: 7.02 (272 pounds)
    Average DE listed: 7.16 (271 pounds)*Pro Day results

    The lesser the time, the more value a tenth of a second has. 1/10 is 10%, 1/20 is 5%, the 1 is still the same, but it's value diminishes as the denominator increases. The 10 and 20 yard dashes are prime examples, because they're such small numbers to begin with. A .06 second of a difference in the 20 yard dash is probably the equivalent to .10 of a second in the 40 yard dash. A .04 second of a difference in the 10 yard dash is the equivalent to atleast a .10 of a second in the 40 yard dash etc.
    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. Pro Football Weekly pre-draft edition...
    By Lee2000 in forum NFL Draft Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-09-2006, 12:09 PM
  2. Pro Football Weekly pre-draft edition...
    By Lee2000 in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-08-2006, 09:11 AM
  3. Pro Football Weekly: Dolphins Have Best Draft
    By infiltrateib in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 04-26-2005, 01:17 PM
  4. Pro Football Weekly on draft picks for Ogunleye
    By KeyHawk in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 01-30-2004, 09:37 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •