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Thread: obama caves to bush ?!

  1. -1
    finataxia24's Avatar
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    obama caves to bush ?!

    Obama Caves to Bush on Domestic Spying
    Constitution, Civil Rights, Civil Liberties
    submitted by nerfed on June 20, 2008 - 6:26pm

    click to view article from www.nj.com
    Thanks Barack, you just lost my vote. Change my ***!
    This is not the change we were promised
    Today the House voted to approve a FISA bill that would provide retroactive immunity for criminal domestic spying violations by Telecom companies and expand Bush domestic spying powers. Here is a link to the vote tally - NJ Republicans Ferguson, Freylinghuysen, Garrett, Saxton and Smith were joined by lone NJ Democrat Sires to vote yes in support of the bad bill - Democrats Andrews, Holt, Pallone, Pascrell, Payne, and Rothman stood up for the Constitution and opposed the bill.
    Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil liberties of the American people. . . .
    UPDATE: I went back to re-read what the guy wrote and here is a link to Obama's actual statement:
    http://utdocuments.blogspot.com/2008/06/statement-of-barack-obama-supporting.html
    I'm not sure what to make of all this yet, but it still doesn't seem good. Yes, Obama may try to strip the immunity clause, but I don't think that is going to happen. And is this bill as good as he says it is?
    Why?

    http://www.smirkingchimp.com/news/15389
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    Eshlemon's Avatar
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    McCain and Obama both want as extensive powers as attainable for the executive office for when either becomes President. Hubris and past objections be damned when it comes to them sitting in the oval office.
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    Dolphins9954's Avatar
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    It's a sad state of affairs. Washington has failed us. And so have Mccain and Obama. The top two candidates want to take our rights away. And don't care for the constitution. The founding fathers would be ashamed.





    "Politics is the Art of Looking for Trouble, Finding it Everywhere, Diagnosing it Incorrectly, and Applying the Wrong Remedies"
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    Dolphins9954's Avatar
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    Some more info......


    The battle to protect Americans from warrantless wiretaps and hold telecommunications companies accountable is all but lost, Sen. Russ Feingold, a leading critic of President Bush’s likely illegal surveillance programs, said Monday.

    The “farce” of a surveillance law deal heralded by House Democratic leaders last week could permanently hide evidence of an “impeachable offense” on the part of President Bush, the Wisconsin Democrat said.

    Feingold spoke at the New America Foundation in Washington about the nation’s intelligence needs. He panned an update to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that quickly passed in the House last week. The Senate is expected to follow suit this year, officially putting the Democratic-controlled Congress’s seal of approval on an administration backed gambit to essentially legalize Bush’s warrantless surveillance program while at the same time letting off the hook phone companies that critics say facilitated the contravention of current law.

    “I do think this is a total farce with regard to the immunity [for telecommunications companies]. It basically guarantees the immunity,” Feingold said. “It doesn’t simply have the impact of potentially allowing telephone companies to break the law. It may prevent us from ever getting to the core issue … which is the president ran an illegal program that could’ve been an impeachable offense.”

    House Democratic leaders heralded the bill as a “bipartisan compromise” because instead of giving blanket retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that facilitated the president’s warrantless wiretapping program, it would route the grants of immunity through a district court. As long as the companies could demonstrate to a judge that they were instructed to spy on Americans by the Bush administration they would be spared the trouble of litigating more than 40 pending lawsuits , even though they initiated the surveillance without legally required warrants.

    “This is an astonishing giveaway,” Feingold said.

    The FISA update passed the House Friday, less than 24 hours after it was released. The bill was crafted after negotiations among moderate Democrats, Republicans, the White House and telecommunications lobbyists. The Senate is expected to pass the bill this week, and Feingold sounded pessimistic about the chances to improve it, although he said he would work with other skeptical senators to try.
    http://rawstory.com/news08/2008/06/2...hable-offense/


    Thank you representation. You guys are worthless. At least some of you are fighting for the American people and the Constitution. To bad it's not the people running for President. Mccain and Obama have both failed the American people. I thought maybe at least the candidate of "change" might have stepped up. But it looks like he is no different. This is the second thread about this. And still no response from the Obamacons. I wonder why?
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    Tetragrammaton's Avatar
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    Saddening that he decided to vote that way, but I understand why he felt he had to.
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    finataxia24's Avatar
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    Obama will still be a better president than mccain.
    mccain who has changed his mind on everything since 2000
    we needed mccain back in 04 to run with kerry in 04 & he punked out..
    Kerry was quoted saying something to the effect of all the stuff karl rove & company did to him how could he not run against him.( black baby South c. primary )

    any way back on topic

    during every war the gov. takes more of our civil liberties & in return they say they need to make sure U & I are SAFER

    dems voted this way to prove they aren't weak....
    Its LAME BUT THAT IS THE TRUTH.


    JOHN MCSAME will do & say anything to be president.
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  7. -7
    The_Dark_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finataxia24 View Post
    Obama will still be a better president than mccain.
    mccain who has changed his mind on everything since 2000
    we needed mccain back in 04 to run with kerry in 04 & he punked out..
    Kerry was quoted saying something to the effect of all the stuff karl rove & company did to him how could he not run against him.( black baby South c. primary )

    any way back on topic

    during every war the gov. takes more of our civil liberties & in return they say they need to make sure U & I are SAFER

    dems voted this way to prove they aren't weak....
    Its LAME BUT THAT IS THE TRUTH.


    JOHN MCSAME will do & say anything to be president.
    And yet, here we still are 232 years later.

    FISA is NOT about taking away our civil liberties. FISA is just THAT...FOREIGN Intelligence Surveillence Act. Have there been some abuses of the authority granted under FISA? You bet. There's ALWAYS some abuse of authority in any executive agency, but you deal with those who have abused the authority individually...personal responsibility.

    You wouldn't disband the Los Angeles or Philadelphia Police Departments for the abuse they committed on fleeing felons, would you? No, you deal with those individual officers. You wouldn't disband the Raleigh/Durham District Attorney's Office (at least I THINK that's where it was) for the prosecutorial misconduct of a DA who pursued false charges of rape against 4 college boys knowing there was no evidence to support the charge, would you?

    I could sit here and go on and on and on and on, giving so many examples of abuse of authority and yet, we still have all of these agencies and the laws that grant them their authority. You don't cure the headache by cutting off the head.

    And do you not think Barack Obama would not do or say anything to become President? He's elected to accept soft money for his campaign, even though he said he wouldn't. And why? Because McCain is doing it and he needs the money to stay competitive so he can win. Please, don't be so naive to believe that one candidate is more of a saint than the other. They BOTH will do or say anything to get elected.

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    DolFan31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphins9954 View Post
    It's a sad state of affairs. Washington has failed us. And so have Mccain and Obama. The top two candidates want to take our rights away. And don't care for the constitution. The founding fathers would be ashamed.
    You mean the founding fathers that only wanted the constitution to apply to white male property owners? And then limited the first amendment by passing the Sedition Acts?
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    Dolphins9954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaywardZest View Post
    Saddening that he decided to vote that way, but I understand why he felt he had to.

    You understand why he voted to take away our rights?

    I don't understand it at all. This is a violation of the Constitution. A clear attack on our privacy and liberties. I would expect this from Bush and the GOP. But not from someone calling himself the candidate of "change". This clearly proves that Obama is no different than the rest in Washington. And Obama can't be counted on when it comes to the defense of our rights and Constitution. The Dem controlled House and Senate has failed us as well. Neither party or Presidential candidate can be trusted with our freedom. This is a sad day for our country and Constitution.
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    Dolphins9954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DolFan31 View Post
    You mean the founding fathers that only wanted the constitution to apply to white male property owners? And then limited the first amendment by passing the Sedition Acts?

    No one here is defending slavery. And it's definitely true that the founding fathers were slave owners. What this has to do with the topic at hand. I don't know. In the end the actions of the President, House and Senate. Along with the two candidates can't be excused. We have a Constitution that continues to be violated and ignored by both parties.
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