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Thread: Obama Invokes Jesus More Often Than Bush

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    BAMAPHIN 22's Avatar
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    Obama Invokes Jesus More Often Than Bush

    He’s done it while talking about abortion and the Middle East, even the economy. The references serve at once as an affirmation of his faith and a rebuke against a rumor that persists for some to this day.

    As president, Barack Obama has mentioned Jesus Christ in a number of high-profile public speeches - something his predecessor George W. Bush rarely did in such settings, even though Bush’s Christian faith was at the core of his political identity.

    In his speech Thursday in Cairo, Obama told the crowd that he is a Christian and mentioned the Islamic story of Isra, in which Moses, Jesus and Mohammed joined in prayer.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5074470.shtml
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    Words are worthless without actions. Obama is not a Christian.

    God's word says that many will claim to know him (but truly don't), and says he will say depart, for you never knew me.
    1972 Miami Dolphins - "Perfection"
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    It becomes pretty clear to anyone that listens to Obama that he is an atheist. In a more reasonable political atmosphere, he would be able to admit it, but alas, he cannot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphin39 View Post
    Words are worthless without actions. Obama is not a Christian.

    God's word says that many will claim to know him (but truly don't), and says he will say depart, for you never knew me.
    this is a good example of why i don't attend church anymore. i can't believe i just read this...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassiopeia View Post
    this is a good example of why i don't attend church anymore. i can't believe i just read this...
    Facts:

    1. Obama supports abortion (killing innocent unborn babies)
    2. Obama claims there are many ways to heaven.
    3. Christians believe salvation is ONLY through accepting Jesus as Savior.
    4. Obama does not oppose the homosexual agenda.
    5. Obama's pastor is an anti-Jew, racist, who married the Obama's and baptized their children.

    Believe it!
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    I believe most christians are not true believers. They are just people that want to feel morally superior to others and be able to judge them. Most christians dont know the true god. The true christian I have met are good, humble, loving people, who may not accept what you do, but realize that they have sinned just as much and that they are not in a position to cast judgement. God sees all sins the same and passing judgement is a sin as well. You cant tell you neighbor about the splint in his eye when you have a plank in yours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PATSSUCK View Post
    I believe most christians are not true believers. They are just people that want to feel morally superior to others and be able to judge them. Most christians dont know the true god. The true christian I have met are good, humble, loving people, who may not accept what you do, but realize that they have sinned just as much and that they are not in a position to cast judgement. God sees all sins the same and passing judgement is a sin as well. You cant tell you neighbor about the splint in his eye when you have a plank in yours.
    Just curious...where does Obama fall in your grouping of true believers and non-believers?

    You make a good and valid point here, but I hesitate to make the same distinctions you have. I don't know the heart of any man but my own, so for me to say most christians are not true believers would imply I knew their hearts - Only God knows the heart of a man. Having said that I do believe that some christians do not act in the manner they should, but that is their actions, not their faith, that you are seeing.

    Jesus said that we will know "them" by their fruit, meaning we will know who is following Jesus by the way they live their life, according to His teaching (Mat 7:15-29). He gives us the ability to know who is the real deal and who isn't. That isn't judging. Jesus gives us clear guidelines on how to treat fellow christians, especially when they are out of line (Mat 18:15-20). That isn't judging, but christian discipline. Holding a christian accountable to their faith is required of all of us. It helps grow the body of christ, it helps purify it.

    Obama may be a christian, but he is very much a man of the world as well. Jesus tells us that we cannot serve two masters (Mat 6:24). We will either follow one or the other, but not both. Obama is walking a very thin line, trying to pacify both sides. By doing that he is becoming luke warm. Calling him on his actions as a christian is very much in line with Mat 18. I would hope that someone close to him is doing just that, but I doubt it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphan7 View Post
    Just curious...where does Obama fall in your grouping of true believers and non-believers?

    You make a good and valid point here, but I hesitate to make the same distinctions you have. I don't know the heart of any man but my own, so for me to say most christians are not true believers would imply I knew their hearts - Only God knows the heart of a man. Having said that I do believe that some christians do not act in the manner they should, but that is their actions, not their faith, that you are seeing.

    Jesus said that we will know "them" by their fruit, meaning we will know who is following Jesus by the way they live their life, according to His teaching (Mat 7:15-29). He gives us the ability to know who is the real deal and who isn't. That isn't judging. Jesus gives us clear guidelines on how to treat fellow christians, especially when they are out of line (Mat 18:15-20). That isn't judging, but christian discipline. Holding a christian accountable to their faith is required of all of us. It helps grow the body of christ, it helps purify it.

    Obama may be a christian, but he is very much a man of the world as well. Jesus tells us that we cannot serve two masters (Mat 6:24). We will either follow one or the other, but not both. Obama is walking a very thin line, trying to pacify both sides. By doing that he is becoming luke warm. Calling him on his actions as a christian is very much in line with Mat 18. I would hope that someone close to him is doing just that, but I doubt it.
    I agree that no one can know that heart of another person which is why I thanked you for your post. It is an excellent point to make. Judging someone's faith is a definite no no IMHO. I also agree that Christian's have a duty to call out wrong acts of other Christians under the provisions provided in the Bible...but I see this as something done within the body of the church and it is to edify and not to tear down.

    I think that Obama is trying to be a President to a nation that has both religious and non-religious citizens and this in and of itself is a precarious position to be in. I am personally thankful that we do not live in a theocracy since the only time I think this is going to work is when God is directly calling the shots and when the people within that theocracy are there voluntarily (we will have this in the next life).

    I think that Churches should be free to preach the word or God and even enforce Biblical principles upon it's congregation (i.e. not allowing homosexuals into ministry etc.) however, I don't feel this governance should extend beyond the church and of course, if a member doesn't like the rules of a specific church, they should be free to leave and find a different one.

    I am not supportive of laws that are basically enforcements of religious principals on the non-religious. I support Obama in principle in this, though I have to say, I find myself disagreeing with his decisions a lot more than I anticipated I would before the election.

    Obama has done many things in his life, and at times at great personal sacrifice in service to others. That, combined with his profession of faith, identify him as a Christian in my book. But of course, only God knows the heart and it is not our place to judge this...IMHO.


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    Quote Originally Posted by HansMojo View Post
    I agree that no one can know that heart of another person which is why I thanked you for your post. It is an excellent point to make. Judging someone's faith is a definite no no IMHO. I also agree that Christian's have a duty to call out wrong acts of other Christians under the provisions provided in the Bible...but I see this as something done within the body of the church and it is to edify and not to tear down.

    I think that Obama is trying to be a President to a nation that has both religious and non-religious citizens and this in and of itself is a precarious position to be in. I am personally thankful that we do not live in a theocracy since the only time I think this is going to work is when God is directly calling the shots and when the people within that theocracy are there voluntarily (we will have this in the next life).

    I think that Churches should be free to preach the word or God and even enforce Biblical principles upon it's congregation (i.e. not allowing homosexuals into ministry etc.) however, I don't feel this governance should extend beyond the church and of course, if a member doesn't like the rules of a specific church, they should be free to leave and find a different one.

    I am not supportive of laws that are basically enforcements of religious principals on the non-religious. I support Obama in principle in this, though I have to say, I find myself disagreeing with his decisions a lot more than I anticipated I would before the election.

    Obama has done many things in his life, and at times at great personal sacrifice in service to others. That, combined with his profession of faith, identify him as a Christian in my book. But of course, only God knows the heart and it is not our place to judge this...IMHO.
    I think we have reached a point in time where an atheist or agnostic can lead our country of religionists just fine (I hope), but I feel that a christian cannot in all good conscience lead a nation that vehemenantly seeks to keep secular government separated from religion, not without compromising his values. This is why Bush had such a rough presidency, and why Obama is facing some major struggles himself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphan7 View Post
    I think we have reached a point in time where an atheist or agnostic can lead our country of religionists just fine (I hope), but I feel that a christian cannot in all good conscience lead a nation that vehemenantly seeks to keep secular government separated from religion, not without compromising his values. This is why Bush had such a rough presidency, and why Obama is facing some major struggles himself.
    I understand your point, but I think it is possible for a Christian to lead this nation, while maintaining a separation of church and state without compromising his/her values...though it would certainly not be an easy task and would require the person to have a very close relationship with God. I know I wouldn't want the job.

    I don't believe God compromises His values by allowing humans to choose to lead secular or religious lives and I think government should do the same. God values free will and legislating religious morality can be discriminatory and is a step in the wrong direction IMHO. When Rome became a Christian theocracy, well, I think you and I agree that this led to a lot more negative outcomes than good. When Moses ran the Hebrew theocracy he had God Himself giving him hand written memos...and he still managed to screw things up from time to time.


    IMO, our churches should be free to preach the word, and government should ensure that people have the right to chose to follow religious principles or not. *Freedom of religion and freedom from religion* God will sort it all out in the end...IMHO.
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