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Thread: Obama's Health Plan : Windfall for Insurance and Pharmaceutical Companies. Dennis Ku

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    Dolphins9954's Avatar
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    Obama's Health Plan : Windfall for Insurance and Pharmaceutical Companies. Dennis Ku

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if5fg...embedded#t=140

    Kudos to Dennis. The man thinks for himself and tells it like it is. He calls Obama's plan a bailout to the health insurance and drug companies. And attacks the law requiring citizens to have health insurance. Which is my biggest problem with the bill.





    "Politics is the Art of Looking for Trouble, Finding it Everywhere, Diagnosing it Incorrectly, and Applying the Wrong Remedies"
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    This is why the current version of the bill (especially no public option) needs to fail. Instead of a public option that will drive down costs, we are going to subsidize health insurance for some and force it on others, which is just about the costliest thing that can be done and with the least effectiveness in driving down any sort of cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaywardZest View Post
    This is why the current version of the bill (especially no public option) needs to fail. Instead of a public option that will drive down costs, we are going to subsidize health insurance for some and force it on others, which is just about the costliest thing that can be done and with the least effectiveness in driving down any sort of cost.

    I don't see the public option driving down any costs. Ask yourself this. How many people are on Medicare and Medicaid? I can't get an exact number. But what I've seen is that it's around 50 million maybe more. Also include the VA as well. So we already have tens of millions of americans on a government runned healthcare. And have had so for decades now. Has that driven the costs down? NO. Instead we have seen the most dramatic rise in healthcare ever in history. Even with 50 million people already using the "public option". I don't see adding another 40 million to medicare and medicaid lowering costs. Instead I see it raising costs especially to the taxpayer. Medicare and Medicade is bankrupt. Not a shining example of lowering costs.

    You also have Obama making backroom deals like Cheney did with the drug companies. According to Obama's own numbers the drug industry will make 3.6 trillion in 10 years. Obama made a deal with them to cut cost by 80 billion in 10 years. That's a savings of only 2%. Obama also promised that they will never have to lower costs past that 2%. Which means Americans won't save crap over the next 10 years. When it comes to drugs. Unless we get it from the black market.

    Dennis said it best. This is a windfall and bailout to the health insurance and drug companies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphins9954 View Post
    I don't see the public option driving down any costs. Ask yourself this. How many people are on Medicare and Medicaid? I can't get an exact number. But what I've seen is that it's around 50 million maybe more. Also include the VA as well. So we already have tens of millions of americans on a government runned healthcare. And have had so for decades now. Has that driven the costs down? NO. Instead we have seen the most dramatic rise in healthcare ever in history. Even with 50 million people already using the "public option". I don't see adding another 40 million to medicare and medicaid lowering costs. Instead I see it raising costs especially to the taxpayer. Medicare and Medicade is bankrupt. Not a shining example of lowering costs.

    You also have Obama making backroom deals like Cheney did with the drug companies. According to Obama's own numbers the drug industry will make 3.5 trillion in 10 years. Obama made a deal with them to cut cost by 80 billion in 10 years. That's a savings of only 2%. Obama also promised that they will never have to lower costs past that 2%. Which means Americans won't save crap over the next 10 years. When it comes to drugs. Unless we get it from the black market.

    Dennis said it best. This is a windfall and bailout to the health insurance and drug companies.
    The problem with that comparison is that people on Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA benefits are not customers in the same way everyone else is. The people using these programs are getting them for free and not by choice, so it isn't like the private insurers are losing customers to them. When companies buying insurance for employees choose a public option for cost, it is going to inevitably going to drive down the cost of the private insurance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaywardZest View Post
    The problem with that comparison is that people on Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA benefits are not customers in the same way everyone else is. The people using these programs are getting them for free and not by choice, so it isn't like the private insurers are losing customers to them. When companies buying insurance for employees choose a public option for cost, it is going to inevitably going to drive down the cost of the private insurance.
    According to Obama though only 5% of Americans will choose the public option. What will happen is the same thing that happened in Hawaii and Mass. A lot more people than expected will choose the public option thus overflowing the program and costing the taxpayers to much money. Hawaii and Mass. stop their healthcare plans because they couldn't afford it. The same will happen here. Even if it does lower costs it will cost the taxpayers more money and more debt. Not exactly a savings. And please don't believe Obama when he said this will pay for itself. He said the same thing as a canidate when refering to his budget. Remember the "line by line" remark. 9 trillion dollars later proves Obama can't be trusted at all with saving us money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphins9954 View Post
    I don't see the public option driving down any costs. Ask yourself this. How many people are on Medicare and Medicaid? I can't get an exact number. But what I've seen is that it's around 50 million maybe more. Also include the VA as well. So we already have tens of millions of americans on a government runned healthcare. And have had so for decades now. Has that driven the costs down? NO. Instead we have seen the most dramatic rise in healthcare ever in history. Even with 50 million people already using the "public option". I don't see adding another 40 million to medicare and medicaid lowering costs. Instead I see it raising costs especially to the taxpayer. Medicare and Medicade is bankrupt. Not a shining example of lowering costs.
    I still don't know what people mean when they say medicare is bankrupt.....but I doubt I'll ever get an answer to that one.

    Medicare does drive down the cost of health care for the patients it covers. It only covers a certain restricted group so its overall impact is limited, but the increase in medicare spending has been well below that of the health care market as a whole. Of course that's not including the prescription drug fiasco.....spending on that will have to be curtailed before it gets out of hand.
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    I guess I just honestly do not understand this enough. As far as I know the US healthcare sytem is worth ~2 trillion dollars, with, again, as far as I know~35% profit. Do the math, I fail to understand how a gov health insurance agency that is supposed to be self supportive, would fail to bring a more reasonable price to the marketplace, therefore, bringing costs down.

    I also agree with the part about making everyone have insurance, I do not believe it should be a choice. If you choose to not have insurance, but are in a motorcycle crash, what is going to happen? Doesn't have to be a crash, could be anything, you do not know what tomarrow will bring. As of now, the uninsured are one of the reasons the insured premiums are so high, somebody pays for the uninsured, the bills do not just float off into the atmosphere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferretsquig View Post
    I still don't know what people mean when they say medicare is bankrupt.....but I doubt I'll ever get an answer to that one.

    Medicare does drive down the cost of health care for the patients it covers. It only covers a certain restricted group so its overall impact is limited, but the increase in medicare spending has been well below that of the health care market as a whole. Of course that's not including the prescription drug fiasco.....spending on that will have to be curtailed before it gets out of hand.

    According to Obama's own people Medicare will run out of money in 2017.

    http://www.medicaresolutions.com/blo...urity-in-2037/

    It's cheaper for those in Medicare. But it did nothing to drive down the all around cost for healthcare period. And is it really cheaper if the program is about to go bankrupt? Either way we pay for it through massive debts. No savings at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phinfan3411 View Post
    I guess I just honestly do not understand this enough. As far as I know the US healthcare sytem is worth ~2 trillion dollars, with, again, as far as I know~35% profit. Do the math, I fail to understand how a gov health insurance agency that is supposed to be self supportive, would fail to bring a more reasonable price to the marketplace, therefore, bringing costs down.

    I also agree with the part about making everyone have insurance, I do not believe it should be a choice. If you choose to not have insurance, but are in a motorcycle crash, what is going to happen? Doesn't have to be a crash, could be anything, you do not know what tomarrow will bring. As of now, the uninsured are one of the reasons the insured premiums are so high, somebody pays for the uninsured, the bills do not just float off into the atmosphere.

    Wow this coming from a Paul supporter. I'm shocked. So you believe the government owns your body? Because this is exactly what it amounts to. You own it or the State owns it. In this case it would be the State, Health Insurance and Drug companies. I believe punishing people who can't afford insurance is wrong. And requiring them to have insurance on their own bodies is unconstitutional.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphins9954 View Post
    According to Obama's own people Medicare will run out of money in 2017.
    How does that even make any sense to you? This is like Gore's lockbox or whatever nonsense he was spouting during his campaign. Medicare is funded by taxpayer dollars, and gets less than 10% of its revenue from participants. And the vast majority of that deducted from social security.

    It's cheaper for those in Medicare. But it did nothing to drive down the all around cost for healthcare period. And is it really cheaper if the program is about to go bankrupt? Either way we pay for it through massive debts. No savings at all.
    As you said it is cheaper for those on medicare. And by deductive reasoning I think we can assume that if the program did not exist the costs for said participants would be greater. Hence the savings argument.
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