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Thread: LeBron James...PROOF that Loyalty DOESN'T MATTER...

  1. -591
    rob19's Avatar
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    The notion that Micheal didn't play on a good team is pretty ridiculous.

    The Bulls won 57 games in the 92-93 season as Jordan won his 3rd ring, & then won 55 games the following year and made it back to the Eastern Conference Finals after Jordan retired.

    Comparatively, the Cavaliers went 61-21 in Lebron's final season there, & then went 19-63 the year after. A 42 game swing.

    Based on the evidence it appears doubtful, but Lebron may eventually have gotten lucky enough to maybe squeak out 1 or 2 rings in Cleveland if he played there for like 18-20 years, but he wasn't going to be able to string together the 4,5,6 championships he'd need to be considered on the level of Jordan (in much the same way Shaq realized the same thing in Orlando). When people say he'd never win in Cleveland, what I think they mean is he'd never be able to win in Cleveland with the teams he had. Just for fun, I'll list the other 4 starters from his 08-09' team: Delonte West, Mo Williams, 35 year old Ben Wallace, & 34 year old oft-injured Zydrunas Ilgauskas. I don't care how good he plays, if THAT'S the type of team he'd be surrounded with, he wasn't going to win anything.

    I think even you'd admit Junc that by the end of his career he's going to be widely recognized as either the best, or second best player in NBA history, so really your criticisms come off as nit-picky.
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  2. -592
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob19 View Post
    The notion that Micheal didn't play on a good team is pretty ridiculous.

    The Bulls won 57 games in the 92-93 season as Jordan won his 3rd ring, & then won 55 games the following year and made it back to the Eastern Conference Finals after Jordan retired.

    Comparatively, the Cavaliers went 61-21 in Lebron's final season there, & then went 19-63 the year after. A 42 game swing.

    Based on the evidence it appears doubtful, but Lebron may eventually have gotten lucky enough to maybe squeak out 1 or 2 rings in Cleveland if he played there for like 18-20 years, but he wasn't going to be able to string together the 4,5,6 championships he'd need to be considered on the level of Jordan (in much the same way Shaq realized the same thing in Orlando). When people say he'd never win in Cleveland, what I think they mean is he'd never be able to win in Cleveland with the teams he had. Just for fun, I'll list the other 4 starters from his 08-09' team: Delonte West, Mo Williams, 35 year old Ben Wallace, & 34 year old oft-injured Zydrunas Ilgauskas. I don't care how good he plays, if THAT'S the type of team he'd be surrounded with, he wasn't going to win anything.

    I think even you'd admit Junc that by the end of his career he's going to be widely recognized as either the best, or second best player in NBA history, so really your criticisms come off as nit-picky.
    Again, the team he had a few years ago was not going to be the team he had now or in the future. If it was then leave but they would bring in talent, he didn't have the most talented teams but in a weak East he had more than enough to compete for East titles and w/ no dominant team in the league more than enough to compete for NBA titles. He chose the easy way out or what he thought was the easy way out. That is a huge strike against an all time great. He's not just an all star/great player, he was a guy who was/is a top 5 player all time. those guys are different, they shouldn't run to latch onto others. maybe if it was 10 years later and he still couldn't lift his team to a title but not in the prime of his career. he was going to win in Cleveland at some point.

    Those Chi teams look talented NOW but no one was going crazy over that talent at the time, Jordan elevated that talent. It wasn't close to what Magic or Bird had but he carried and willed teams to titles that probably shouldn't have won those first 3 titles.

    No he will never be considered the best or 2nd best unless he elevates his game by a lot these next 7-8 years. He can be a top 5 all time player though. He'll never catch Jordan.

    Quote Originally Posted by JCane View Post
    You "said" you "thought" he'd win in Cleveland. I think we all knew that he would not.

    No surprise that your line of thinking led to you being wrong yet again.
    No part of what I have said is wrong, you are just whining b/c you wear Lebron underoos to bed and want him to be considered the best.

    Lebron isn't Jordan and never will be but he will still be an all time great. It's ok.
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  3. -593
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Again, the team he had a few years ago was not going to be the team he had now or in the future. If it was then leave but they would bring in talent, he didn't have the most talented teams but in a weak East he had more than enough to compete for East titles and w/ no dominant team in the league more than enough to compete for NBA titles. He chose the easy way out or what he thought was the easy way out. That is a huge strike against an all time great. He's not just an all star/great player, he was a guy who was/is a top 5 player all time. those guys are different, they shouldn't run to latch onto others. maybe if it was 10 years later and he still couldn't lift his team to a title but not in the prime of his career. he was going to win in Cleveland at some point.

    Those Chi teams look talented NOW but no one was going crazy over that talent at the time, Jordan elevated that talent. It wasn't close to what Magic or Bird had but he carried and willed teams to titles that probably shouldn't have won those first 3 titles.

    No he will never be considered the best or 2nd best unless he elevates his game by a lot these next 7-8 years. He can be a top 5 all time player though. He'll never catch Jordan.



    No part of what I have said is wrong, you are just whining b/c you wear Lebron underoos to bed and want him to be considered the best.

    Lebron isn't Jordan and never will be but he will still be an all time great. It's ok.
    Lol. According to who? Agenda driven Jordan super fans? Agenda driven Lebron haters? It's an incredibly myopic and stupid thing to say. You don't know what he will accomplish the next 10 years. He might win 5 more titles and 3 more mvps. He's only 28. If he does that he will definitely be considered the GOAT by many if not most people. You can qualify it in any petty, insignificant and meaningless way you want. You can stand up and rationale to yourself that he isn't the GOAT because he switched teams or he went to this many game sevens or in game 3 against the bucks in the first round he didn't do X and it means nothing. It's just you, personally, arbitrarily hand picking what should be a criteria and what shouldnt be and its completely agenda driven with no objectivity whatsoever. If Lebron wins 6+ titles he will be considered the best ever by many if not most and your silly, meaningless qualifications why he's not will mean zero. Nothing. Nada.
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    I don't care if LeBron is considered the best or not. No where have I said I think or want LeBron to be considered the best now or ever.

    But when you have nothing make stuff up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCane View Post
    I don't care if LeBron is considered the best or not. No where have I said I think or want LeBron to be considered the best now or ever.

    But when you have nothing make stuff up.
    You are angry over something, oh yeah you pretend like you are a player. Sorry I forgot.
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  6. -596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry_Bagpipe View Post
    Lol. According to who? Agenda driven Jordan super fans? Agenda driven Lebron haters? It's an incredibly myopic and stupid thing to say. You don't know what he will accomplish the next 10 years. He might win 5 more titles and 3 more mvps. He's only 28. If he does that he will definitely be considered the GOAT by many if not most people. You can qualify it in any petty, insignificant and meaningless way you want. You can stand up and rationale to yourself that he isn't the GOAT because he switched teams or he went to this many game sevens or in game 3 against the bucks in the first round he didn't do X and it means nothing. It's just you, personally, arbitrarily hand picking what should be a criteria and what shouldnt be and its completely agenda driven with no objectivity whatsoever. If Lebron wins 6+ titles he will be considered the best ever by many if not most and your silly, meaningless qualifications why he's not will mean zero. Nothing. Nada.
    According to those who have followed the sport closely. he'll never be Michael, losing 2 Finals and going to game 7 along w/ hopping on to a ready made team ensure that.

    He's got a LONG way to go to win 5 more titles.

    Jordan played 13 years in Chi(coming back in Wash was a sideshow), LeBron has played 10 so far so even if he wins the next 3 he's still 1 behind Michael.

    I saw Michael, I am watching Lebron. Both all time greats but Michael was head and shoulders better, to the point where it is laughable to compare them in any way and I despised Jordan when he played but I appreciate greatness.
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  7. -597
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    How many times facing elimination did a player make a 3 to extend the game and series after Jordan bricked a shot?
    How many times did Babe Ruth ever take a knuckleballer deep in game 7 of the ALCS in NY in extra innings to left field against the Red Sox to win the game?

    Aaaron Boone >>>> Babe Ruth.

    See how ridiculous it is to try use super exact scenarios?




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  8. -598
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    According to those who have followed the sport closely. he'll never be Michael, losing 2 Finals and going to game 7 along w/ hopping on to a ready made team ensure that.

    He's got a LONG way to go to win 5 more titles.

    Jordan played 13 years in Chi(coming back in Wash was a sideshow), LeBron has played 10 so far so even if he wins the next 3 he's still 1 behind Michael.

    I saw Michael, I am watching Lebron. Both all time greats but Michael was head and shoulders better, to the point where it is laughable to compare them in any way and I despised Jordan when he played but I appreciate greatness.

    Lol. Again. Handpicking arbitrary qualifications and ignoring those that don't fit your pre-fabricated conclusion. Using non-quantitative statements that have zero substance such as "people who truly understand the game think X, and if you don't think X than you don't understand the game". Creating strawmen. You do it in regards to football so its no surprise you do it with basketball. When lebrons career is over, barring injury, he will be considered the best or second best ever and there's nothing you can do about it. You can try to convince your grandkids otherwise but I doubt they'll listen.
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  9. -599
    SpurzN703's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post
    How many times did Babe Ruth ever take a knuckleballer deep in game 7 of the ALCS in NY in extra innings to left field against the Red Sox to win the game?

    Aaaron Boone >>>> Babe Ruth.

    See how ridiculous it is to try use super exact scenarios?
    Not sure what baseball has to do with anything. Junc is right in that Ray Allen bailed the Heat out in Game 6 along with Duncan not being on the floor which led to SA's inability to get one more god damn rebound.

    What that does to James's legacy I could give a ****. I don't care who was/is better between Jordan and James.



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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    You are angry over something, oh yeah you pretend like you are a player. Sorry I forgot.
    Yeah, man, that's exactly it lol.

    Continue to make things up as you see fit, though.

    My argument is that people in all walks of life should be able to make choices that benefit themselves without criticism of those who have never walked in their shoes. LeBron has two championships in Miami. Those are two titles that he wouldn't have got in Cleveland. Ever. He made the right decision.

    You seem to be some kind of entitled little fan. As if these players owe you something as a fan of the game.

    Who cares who the best is. You can make arguments for players being the best who aren't Michael and who aren't LeBron. When it comes down to "who the best is" you're splitting hairs at the top.

    LeBron lacks the killer mentality that guys like Jordan and Kobe have, guys like Jordan and Kobe lack the total all around game. It's crazy to me how some people make these team sports all about individual accomplishments.
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