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Thread: Merged X12: Ongoing Henne vs. Sanchez Debate...

  1. -101
    nyjunc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhinzN703 View Post
    Ignored? I'm the one putting the blame on the defense for the three losses at the end of the year. I mean the Phins were down big in Tennessee but came back and then the defense blew it in overtime. Against the Steelers, Thigpen had a chance to win the game but threw a pick in the end zone.

    Playing poorly in the first half is one thing. If your defense is worth a damn then they'd keep you in the game no matter how the offense is playing. Going down 21-0 at home in the first quarter is awful no matter how you slice it.

    I understand you don't like to look at stats as a barometer of how a player is playing. But to me there is no other way to judge a player then to do just that. You say Sanchez was a lot better and more important than his numbers indicated......

    A lot better at what? The spiral of his passes? How gently he grabbed his crotch to adjust the jockstrap? How loud his snap counts were? It's always about the numbers. The numbers are the game.
    So the D threw 3 INTs against ten including the one in OT to set up the game losing FG?

    As bad as your D was playing the O is allowed to score and your O was not scoring.

    In specific Snachez made a huge 3rd down throw to Cotch that set up a punt that pinned at SD at their 4, that doesn't look sexy in the boxscore but w/o that throw we are punting from our 23 instead of from our 45. On SD's next possession we picked off Rivers and set up our 1st TD, a tremdnous thorw by sanchez as he was getting hammered by an SD defender. In the boxscore it's a 2 yard TD- no big deal but he hung in there taking as huge shot and made a great throw to give us a 10-7 lead. If we kick the FG we are down 7-6,m that was a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE swing in that game.

    Another huge play was a 3rd and 4 to Cotch, he placed the ball where only Cotch could catch it. Any other position and the ball is picked. That 3rd down conversion came one play before Greene's 47 yd TD run to break it open.

    Boxscores and stats tell us alot but it doesn't give us the whole story. I think he played better in SD than Indy though stats tell us otherwise.
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  2. -102
    34miami23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    So the D threw 3 INTs against ten including the one in OT to set up the game losing FG?

    As bad as your D was playing the O is allowed to score and your O was not scoring.

    In specific Snachez made a huge 3rd down throw to Cotch that set up a punt that pinned at SD at their 4, that doesn't look sexy in the boxscore but w/o that throw we are punting from our 23 instead of from our 45. On SD's next possession we picked off Rivers and set up our 1st TD, a tremdnous thorw by sanchez as he was getting hammered by an SD defender. In the boxscore it's a 2 yard TD- no big deal but he hung in there taking as huge shot and made a great throw to give us a 10-7 lead. If we kick the FG we are down 7-6,m that was a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE swing in that game.

    Another huge play was a 3rd and 4 to Cotch, he placed the ball where only Cotch could catch it. Any other position and the ball is picked. That 3rd down conversion came one play before Greene's 47 yd TD run to break it open.

    Boxscores and stats tell us alot but it doesn't give us the whole story. I think he played better in SD than Indy though stats tell us otherwise.
    So going by your logic ... Henne wasn't under any pressure because he came to a team that was 0-3

    Does that absolve Sanchez of being "under pressure" after his 5-pick games and the loss to the Falcons to which even Rex Ryan said himself that the Jets were eliminated?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 34miami23 View Post
    So going by your logic ... Henne wasn't under any pressure because he came to a team that was 0-3

    Does that absolve Sanchez of being "under pressure" after his 5-pick games and the loss to the Falcons to which even Rex Ryan said himself that the Jets were eliminated?
    The difference is Sanchez particpated in those games and he played poorly. Henne didn't start any of the first 3 games, he came in w/ a clean slate. I think we were kind of playing w/ house money in postseason and that could have helped Sanchez.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Why is it when sanchez closes the gap and the D blows it sanchez sucks but when henne does it he's great?

    I love the excuses knocking Cincy and SD(one of the kicks he missed was a 57 yarder). Do you apply that same thinking to the AFC Title Game loss? Our kicker missed 2 of 3 kicks or does it only count if our opponents kicker misses a kick?

    This is where reading comprehension comes into play. I never said Sanchez was better, I have stated over and over and over that henne had a better overall year but I also stated a fact that in their teams biggest agmes Sanchez came through and henne didn't. I'm sorry the truth offends you.
    Because the times your D blew it(blew it being relative, as im sure all dolfans would have perfered only giving up less then 3 touchdowns instead of 4-5 on a weekly basis), your team lost. Henne went out and won some of those games(as the Jets saw first hand, after we gave up 52 combined points), kept us in contention despite lacking the weapons. Meanwhile, Sanchez is handed a talented team and squeezed into the playoffs by the good will of others, while clinging to the back of a tough D and loaded run game. When other aspects of your team needed help, he didn't provide it.

    Id be alot more sympathetic had you needed only 1 of those field goals to tie it, not make all 3 field goals plus a touchdown. Regardless, you won those games, and thats all that matters...yet id be remiss not to point out that you won them because you asked Sanchez to take the backseat. The minute your defense struggled in the playoffs, it was over.

    If i recall correctly, your coach believed that you were "mathematically eliminated" after you lost to the Falcons. So Ryan, your coach, believed that you absolutely must win against the Falcons. The Jets lost 10-7, with Sanchez throwing 3 picks, including one on the final drive of the game. How is that coming through when you need it? Was that not considered a big game? Then again, this is a QB that went 2-4 in the division...though those aren't big games at all.
    I'll certainly work on my reading comprehension, the minute you work on that "common sense" thing you seem to be lacking.


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  5. -105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Because the times your D blew it(blew it being relative, as im sure all dolfans would have perfered only giving up less then 3 touchdowns instead of 4-5 on a weekly basis), your team lost. Henne went out and won some of those games(as the Jets saw first hand, after we gave up 52 combined points), kept us in contention despite lacking the weapons. Meanwhile, Sanchez is handed a talented team and squeezed into the playoffs by the good will of others, while clinging to the back of a tough D and loaded run game. When other aspects of your team needed help, he didn't provide it.

    Id be alot more sympathetic had you needed only 1 of those field goals to tie it, not make all 3 field goals plus a touchdown. Regardless, you won those games, and thats all that matters...yet id be remiss not to point out that you won them because you asked Sanchez to take the backseat. The minute your defense struggled in the playoffs, it was over.

    If i recall correctly, your coach believed that you were "mathematically eliminated" after you lost to the Falcons. So Ryan, your coach, believed that you absolutely must win against the Falcons. The Jets lost 10-7, with Sanchez throwing 3 picks, including one on the final drive of the game. How is that coming through when you need it? Was that not considered a big game? Then again, this is a QB that went 2-4 in the division...though those aren't big games at all.
    I'll certainly work on my reading comprehension, the minute you work on that "common sense" thing you seem to be lacking.
    The problem is we are discussing the final 3 games for Miami, 3 games Miami lost after trailing big.

    The team around Sanchez choked away a playoff spot in 2008 while the team around henne won the division.

    We missed a FG on the first drive, we eventuall led 17-6, 20-6 is a big difference. Then up 17-13 we missed and set up Indy in great FP so instead of beimg up a TD we were soon trailing by 3 but b/c we missed FGs it doesnt' count, it only counts if our opponents miss FGs.

    The biggest games we played were all in January and Sanchez played his best football.
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  6. -106
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    So the D threw 3 INTs against ten including the one in OT to set up the game losing FG?

    As bad as your D was playing the O is allowed to score and your O was not scoring.

    In specific Snachez made a huge 3rd down throw to Cotch that set up a punt that pinned at SD at their 4, that doesn't look sexy in the boxscore but w/o that throw we are punting from our 23 instead of from our 45. On SD's next possession we picked off Rivers and set up our 1st TD, a tremdnous thorw by sanchez as he was getting hammered by an SD defender. In the boxscore it's a 2 yard TD- no big deal but he hung in there taking as huge shot and made a great throw to give us a 10-7 lead. If we kick the FG we are down 7-6,m that was a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE swing in that game.

    Another huge play was a 3rd and 4 to Cotch, he placed the ball where only Cotch could catch it. Any other position and the ball is picked. That 3rd down conversion came one play before Greene's 47 yd TD run to break it open.

    Boxscores and stats tell us alot but it doesn't give us the whole story. I think he played better in SD than Indy though stats tell us otherwise.
    Henne did have 3 INTs that game didn't he? Down 24-6 b/c the defense can't stop anyone is why they lost. Sure the INT made it easier for the Titans to win, I won't deny that. Sanchez throws an INT against ATL in Week 15 as the Jets had 1:32 to drive and kick a FG. It happens.

    I have never discounted the little things Sanchez had done throughout the year. I also don't claim to have since all of the Jets plays like you have. Swings or not, a 3 pt lead is a 3 pt lead. The defense won that game.



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  7. -107
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhinzN703 View Post
    Henne did have 3 INTs that game didn't he? Down 24-6 b/c the defense can't stop anyone is why they lost. Sure the INT made it easier for the Titans to win, I won't deny that. Sanchez throws an INT against ATL in Week 15 as the Jets had 1:32 to drive and kick a FG. It happens.

    I have never discounted the little things Sanchez had done throughout the year. I also don't claim to have since all of the Jets plays like you have. Swings or not, a 3 pt lead is a 3 pt lead. The defense won that game.
    Again, was your D preventing your offense from scoring?
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    burger13's Avatar
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    In the mind of a Jets fan:

    12 for 23 (52.2%) for 100 yds 1 TD 1 INT (60.1 QB RATING) = Sanchez was AMAZING. Each of Sanchez' 12 completions were works of art that maybe only 1% of all quarterbacks that have ever played in the NFL could have made.

    12 for 21 (57.1%) for 112 yds 1 TD 0 INT (87.8 QB RATING) = Henne was completely shut down by one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. Henne did absolutely nothing the entire game, and the game was a fluke. Following a 3rd quarter in which the Dolphins offense was on the sideline the entire quarter while the special teams and defense scored 3 times; by taking his first drive of the 4th quarter the entire length of the field to give the Phins the desicive points...meant nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Again, was your D preventing your offense from scoring?
    They were not. They also didn't prevent their opponent from scoring either. That's why the defense exists. To not allow their opponent to score. Like in the Jets loss to the Phins in their first game. The Jets defense couldn't hold the lead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by burger13 View Post
    In the mind of a Jets fan:

    12 for 23 (52.2%) for 100 yds 1 TD 1 INT (60.1 QB RATING) = Sanchez was AMAZING. Each of Sanchez' 12 completions were works of art that maybe only 1% of all quarterbacks that have ever played in the NFL could have made.

    12 for 21 (57.1%) for 112 yds 1 TD 0 INT (87.8 QB RATING) = Henne was completely shut down by one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. Henne did absolutely nothing the entire game, and the game was a fluke. Following a 3rd quarter in which the Dolphins offense was on the sideline the entire quarter while the special teams and defense scored 3 times; by taking his first drive of the 4th quarter the entire length of the field to give the Phins the desicive points...meant nothing.
    when did Sanchez get 3 non offensive TDs to win that SD game?
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