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Thread: Merged X12: Ongoing Henne vs. buttfumble Debate...

  1. -131
    nyjunc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhinzN703 View Post
    Henne had one poor game out of the last three. The others were average to decent (first half vs PIT). You've said before to take a bad game or two away from buttfumble and his numbers are better. You could apply that same logic to anyone on any team too.
    I'll take away Pitt since he left early and the game didn't matter anyway but when Miami controled their own destiny(Ten, Hou) he led his offenses to a total of 9 pts in the first halves of those games. There's more blame to go around than just the QB but the QB and the O did NOT do enough to win those games.

    buttfumble's bad games were spread out, he had about one a month. In Miami's biggest games Henne had multiple poor outings.

    Quote Originally Posted by burger13 View Post
    dude, I didn't bring the excuses to the table....note it was in direct response to your '3 non-offensive touchdowns' EXCUSE. so we can compare the games with or without the excuses...but note that a strong running game is going to help a quarterbacks performance (which is what I was trying to discuss) than non-offensive touchdowns.



    so let me try and put all of this together....he was playing his best football in those three games, and the SD game was better than the Indy game, but you aren't saying tha the was great in the SD game. so at his best, he was only at most, great in 1 football game all year (the CIN playoff game). and that was damn impressive to you.

    ...looks like you have a real gem on your hands!
    Are we adults? Do I really need to explain this to you? First show me where I said buttfumble was GREAT in postseason? he wasn't but he played his best football and the best football of ANY rookie QB in NFL history. You guys treat buttfumble like he was a 10 year vet and forget he was a rookie. It really isn't this difficult to understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    During the Falcons game he threw a pick while trying to win the game. I recall with great detail during the second Miami vs Jets game Mark had a chance to win the game and overthrew his receivers. Still remember the Bills game when he threw a pick in overtime(not to be outdone by your punter, i suppose). Multiple times during the season he had a chance to win with the game in his hands, and quite literally threw them away.

    And buttfumble did indeed have 3 games in a row where he played miserably: weeks 4-6, 1-8 td/int ratio, 429 yards, passer ratings of 51.9, 50, and 34.5.

    Henne might not have pulled off the wins the last 3 weeks, but he certainly dug us out of holes and gave us a chance. Our defense was giving up close to 30 points. During the Jets "must win" game at the end of the season, your defense gave up 10 points.

    The Jets lost a few players, but were in better position the dropoff wasn't as drastic. Miami has been a less talented team to begin with, losing key positions(QB, RB, LG, C, DT, the only non-rookie CB, RB/KR) was much more devastating because we didnt have more talent surrounding it.
    I understand your grasping at straws to support your caretaker. Yet when the game is in buttfumble's hands, he folded. Consistently. When that smash mouth ground game is running hard, when that offensive line opens up holes you can drive a truck through, when your defense is smothering, when your special teams is kicking everything through the uprights from any part of the field, buttfumble has does a great job. When they "struggle"(especially defense, though again, it hardly looks like struggling in comparison) and its up to buttfumble to pull it out...it hasn't happened.

    Mnphinfan linked a brilliant write up from Phinsider.com at the beginning of the thread. Ill post it again for those that don't feel like fighting through 9 pages:
    he did throw an INT w/ the game on the line vs. Atlanta, our D also allowed Atlanata to march down the field and score the go ahead TD in the final minutes.

    Against Miami he led us to 25 pts, that should have been more than enough to win. he played very well.

    He was dreadful against buffalo, he cost us that Bills game as well as NO and the 2nd NE game. It happens, he was a rookie. Thankfully he always bounced back and the switched turned on in postseason.


    henne dug you out of holes that he helped put you in and you don't get bonus points for almost doing something. The bottom line is w/ the playoffs on the line in your control he couldn't lead you to any wins.


    I argue the Jets have been more talented but that always gets shot down on here then it's used as an excuse when things don't go right.


    Brilliant write up all that does is bring up meaningless stats, again if buttfumble threw as much as Henne he would have had more yards and TDs. The important stat was coming through when their teams needed them most- buttfumble 2-1, henne 0-2.
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  2. -132
    nyjunc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamC13 View Post
    Perhaps the weakest response I have ever had to a post. Do you really want me to blow smoke up your butt and say buttfumble played well against SD and INDY? You think 17 points in back-to-back games is good? You want me to go and watch the SD game again? WTF...You really think I will be impressed by a QB that amassed 100 yards on 23 throws for a 4.3 yards per attempt (YPA) by watching the game again? Why don't you go watch the game again without your rose colored glasses on? The lowest YPA by a starting QB last year was J Russell and B Quinn at 5.23 YPA and you honestly think I will be impressed by a QB with a 4.3 YPA? Please...

    You made the point yourself without a running back buttfumble is SHUT DOWN!!! ZERO points as soon as Green got hurt. buttfumble was a JOKE last year. He was the beneficiary of the #1 running game and #1 defense. Put buttfumble on the Lions and he is lucky to win a game. Let's compare buttfumble numbers with Stafford (QB of a 2-14 team)...

    buttfumble...53.8% completion, 12 TD, 20 INT, 10 fumbles, 3 lost fumbles

    Stafford...61% completion, 13 TD, 20 INT, 4 fumbles, 1 lost fumble

    Face it, buttfumble was a DISASTER last year who is extremely careless with the football. Put a decent QB on the Jets last year and your team may have won 14 games last year and make it to and perhaps win the Super Bowl. buttfumble gives new meaning to the word OVERRATED.
    If you know anything about football you'd understand he played well in both games. It's funny how you guys are going nuts over henne putting up 20 pts in garbage time against houston but buttfumble leading us to 17 and the win on the road against the hottest team in the league is not impressive.

    You can look at stats all you want, yopu can have those garbage time 300 yd games and I'll take 100-150 and making plays to WIN games. The game is not about stats, it's about winning.

    A rookie QB losing his running game on the road in the AFC Title Game is a big deal. Again, you guys treat buttfumble like he is a 10 year vet, he was a ROOKIE!

    #s aren't black and white, buttfumble's INT totals were high b/c he had a few disastrous games while Stafford was consistently throwing INTs. Stafford went 2 games w/o throwing an INT, buttfumble 7. buttfumble had 5 multiple INT games, Stafford 6(in 5 less games).

    So please stop w/ the nonsense about buttfumble being bad, he had a good ROOKIE year and he stepped up when we needed him most making plays and playing his best in postseason. You can throw out all the stats you want but we were less than 30 mins from the SB, a year earlier w/ a future HOF QB in a weak division w/ a weak sched we didn't even make the playoffs.
    Last edited by nyjunc; 05-11-2010 at 09:00 AM.
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  3. -133
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsattack View Post
    maybe, in your eyes, henne's most important game last year was the one against the jets.....but for the jets the most important games happened after the fins flunked on the season. thats where this conversation is getting screwed up it seems. you fins fans act like the fins/jets games were superbowl wins for you guys.
    never said that was his most important game....that's not why I made the comparison.

    their production in each of those games were VERY similar, with the slight advantage going to Henne. Yet I have heard repeatedly for months how completely dominated the entire Dolphins offense was in that Jets game....and how awesome buttfumble was in the SD game.....something just doesn't add up there.

    I never acted like nor implied that the games were of equal importance.
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  4. -134
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    Quote Originally Posted by burger13 View Post
    never said that was his most important game....that's not why I made the comparison.

    their production in each of those games were VERY similar, with the slight advantage going to Henne. Yet I have heard repeatedly for months how completely dominated the entire Dolphins offense was in that Jets game....and how awesome buttfumble was in the SD game.....something just doesn't add up there.

    I never acted like nor implied that the games were of equal importance.
    Each game is different, 17 pts might be great one ga,me and terrible in another. buttfumble didn't get 21 free pts to play w/ in San Diego, he made big plays to help us get to 17 which was enough to win. W/o 21 free pts henne doesn't have a chance to win that game at the meadowlands and obviously the stakes were just a tad higher in SD than in our meeting.
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  5. -135
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Are we adults?
    I have my doubts....about both of us....

    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Do I really need to explain this to you? First show me where I said buttfumble was GREAT in postseason? he wasn't but he played his best football and the best football of ANY rookie QB in NFL history. You guys treat buttfumble like he was a 10 year vet and forget he was a rookie. It really isn't this difficult to understand.


    no, you're not saying he was great....just that it was the best rookie performance ever!!

    ....and I thought that you were one of the more level-headed Jests fans.....that is without a doubt the most laughable comment I have ever seen on this forum...priceless.
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  6. -136
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Each game is different, 17 pts might be great one ga,me and terrible in another. buttfumble didn't get 21 free pts to play w/ in San Diego, he made big plays to help us get to 17 which was enough to win. W/o 21 free pts henne doesn't have a chance to win that game at the meadowlands and obviously the stakes were just a tad higher in SD than in our meeting.
    how do you know?? he was on the sidelines the entire 3rd quarter....because our ST or D would score and you would get the ball right back. then in the 4th quarter when he did get back on the field, he took it right down for a TD.

    I'm not even arguing the win/loss.....they both won, and in both cases it was due more to other factors than the QB play. But look at the sum of their individual performance and although it's almost identical, Jets fans somehow think that one was horrid, and the other was great...oops, not great, just 'the best of any rookie QB in NFL history'
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  7. -137
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    Quote Originally Posted by burger13 View Post
    I have my doubts....about both of us....





    no, you're not saying he was great....just that it was the best rookie performance ever!!

    ....and I thought that you were one of the more level-headed Jests fans.....that is without a doubt the most laughable comment I have ever seen on this forum...priceless.



    Again, you are missing words in that sentence. I said best rookie QB in postseason ever and that's a fact(at least in modern times). if it is such a crazy statement show me a rookie QB who performed better in postseason than buttfumble did?
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  8. -138
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    Quote Originally Posted by burger13 View Post
    how do you know?? he was on the sidelines the entire 3rd quarter....because our ST or D would score and you would get the ball right back. then in the 4th quarter when he did get back on the field, he took it right down for a TD.

    I'm not even arguing the win/loss.....they both won, and in both cases it was due more to other factors than the QB play. But look at the sum of their individual performance and although it's almost identical, Jets fans somehow think that one was horrid, and the other was great...oops, not great, just 'the best of any rookie QB in NFL history'
    He got great FP and needed a blown call to help him "take it right down for a TD".

    Miami had 10 offensive possessions(not counting the kneeldown) and scored 9 offensive points, the Jets had 14 offensive possessions and scored 25.

    If Miami had 14 possessions they were on pace for 13 pts.

    buttfumble had to overcome 21 pts scored by Miami's STs and D and he nearly led us to the win.


    The SD game wa spart of the best postseason for a rookie QB and buttfumble played well in that game, henne did not in the jet game. Again, if buttfumble got 21 free pts we could argue the games were similar but that didn't happen and they were not and AGAIN buttfumble was playing for a trip to the AFC Title Game, the Jet-Miami game was the EIGHT game of the season.
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  9. -139
    34miami23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    He got great FP and needed a blown call to help him "take it right down for a TD".

    Miami had 10 offensive possessions(not counting the kneeldown) and scored 9 offensive points, the Jets had 14 offensive possessions and scored 25.

    If Miami had 14 possessions they were on pace for 13 pts.

    buttfumble had to overcome 21 pts scored by Miami's STs and D and he nearly led us to the win.


    The SD game wa spart of the best postseason for a rookie QB and buttfumble played well in that game, henne did not in the jet game. Again, if buttfumble got 21 free pts we could argue the games were similar but that didn't happen and they were not and AGAIN buttfumble was playing for a trip to the AFC Title Game, the Jet-Miami game was the EIGHT game of the season.
    With all due respect, Junc, I could claim that with Davone Bess fumbling the punt after you guys went 3 and out, your offense never gets going.

    Think about it, the JT return sucked the life out of you guys. You could hear the boos in the stadium, the look on buttfumble's face was a blank stare when walking off the field. It was 17-6, and you went 3 and out.

    Bess fumbles the ball, the Jets are rejuvenated. Up until that point, neither offense had done anything to brag about.
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  10. -140
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    Hey Jets fans, no need to worry if/when buttfumble flops 2 or 3 years from now you could always convince Favre or Testaverde to come back and play for you again hehehe
    Chubbs
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    In psychology, Stockholm Syndrome is an apparently paradoxical psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. "[6]
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