Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 7 of 112 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 1117

Thread: Merged X12: Ongoing Henne vs. Sanchez Debate...

  1. -61
    mnphinfan's Avatar
    Lifelong Fin Fan

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Feb 2008
    Posts:
    2,302
    vCash:
    1612
    Loc:
    Minneapolis MN
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Who cares about 300 yd games? b./c Henne was ineffective early in games and had to throw a million times that makes him better?

    If Sanchez had as many attempts as henne he would have thrown for 150 more yards.

    Again, who cares about # of games w/ 20 completions? Henne's last 2 20 comp games? both losses in the 2 biggest games of the year for Miami.

    # of TD passes in the 4th qtr of a win? So it's Sanchez's fault that our D blew a lead against Miami in Miami and that we gave up 3 non-opffensive Tds to Miami at home? OR that we ran for a TD in the 4th qtr? This is so silly.

    Henne is 7-6 and Sanchez 10-8, 10-8 looks a hell of alot better when you consider he's 2-1 in the playoffs w/ both wins being road wins.

    In Miami's 3 most impoprtant games- Henne 0-3
    In NYJ's 3 most important games- Sanchez 2-1


    Sanchez was a ROOKIE, it's not good for rookies to throw 30-40+ times a game. Henne had a year to learna nd came in w/ NO pressure w/ the team 0-3 already. Once he faced pressure in dec he played his worst football while Sanchez played his best in our biggest games.
    Junc you can't really believe that Henne didn't have pressure on him. We just came of a trip to the playoffs and we start 0-3. If anything there is more pressure on Henne to get the team back on track. I don't know what your philosophy is on winning and losing in the NFL but I can tell you one thing our FO's opinion is that they expect to win every game so to say Henne had no pressure is plain wrong.

    Actually Henne had to throw for 300 yards in those games because our defense was atrocious. We were in huge holes that our defense put us in which the offense had to try and overcome. If you put Sanchez in that situation where he has to try and bring his team back do you know what happens? Multiple interceptions and not a chance at getting back in the game. With Henne at least we had a chance to win those games.

    When it comes to attempt/completions per game do you know why Henne has more? It's because he is trusted to be able to lead the offense and make the plays/reads required of him. He is not taking a second fiddle to the RB's who are expected to do all of the work. If Sanchez was as good as you say he is he would have been given the chance to prove it, not sit back in the shadows of his O-line and RB and ride their coattails for wins.

    Lastly to say Sanches doesn't have the experience Henne does is a pretty poor point. Sanchez was able to take every snap with the first team offense last year. Henne not so. Pennington took about 85% of the first team snaps in OTA's and training camp so to say Henne had plenty of work with the first stringers is flat out wrong. I would be willing to bet that Sanches had more first string reps in his first year of practice than Henne did in his 2 years combined.

    Some of your thinking and reasoning is so flawed it's no wonder you are a Jet's fan.
    When I die I want to hire the Miami Dolphin's to be my pallbearers so they can let me down one last time.

    Quote Quote  

  2. -62
    Aqua and Orange's Avatar
    Underpaying All Free Agents

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jan 2005
    Posts:
    4,201
    vCash:
    1540
    Loc:
    New York, New York
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Comments aside, i loved the flip flopping Tim Graham did.

    Graham jumped on there, talking about how Sanchez is the better QB because he has more success and more experience and how he liked how he played in the championship game....though to be fair he then commented that neither Henne nor Sanchez are really anything special, just solid but never elite.

    The host Jay Soderberg came out swinging, saying Henne was clearly the better quarterback with bigger upside, tougher, a better thrower and will be a top 10 QB in the league, multiple pro-bowler, and its not really debatable.

    Graham quickly speaks up saying "oh, i agree, its how you phrase the question". When the guy writing the articles is so quick to jump sides, it might just be the people in the comments that are more logical.
    Well said

    The Miami Dolphins: Your home for QBs weeping in the fetal position since 1999.
    Quote Quote  

  3. -63
    34miami23's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Oct 2005
    Posts:
    325
    vCash:
    1016
    Loc:
    Virgina
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Once Ronnie went down against Tampa, and Ricky slowed down at the end of the season, obviously Henne had to carry more and thus made more mistakes. We have a nice group of receivers, but make no mistake, they are not big time number 1 guys ... we have that now.

    As far as Henne, I think 3 fourth quarter comebacks in 13 games says alot
    Quote Quote  

  4. -64
    Spesh's Avatar
    Fat Kid

    Status:
    Online
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2007
    Posts:
    7,743
    vCash:
    2463
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Henne was amazing in the loss against Houston? he led the Miami O to 3 pts through 2 qtrs(and an INT that led to 7 for Hou), 10 through 3 and 20 in the game and he was amazing?

    Henne played his worst in the biggest games for Miami. You guys can blame the D, the running game, the coahcing and they may have all had a part in it but Chad henne played his worst football of the year in the biggest games for the Miami Dolphins in 2009.

    Games in which opponents of the New York Jets scored more then 20 points:
    Week 4: Jets @ Saints: 14-24 Lost
    Week 5: Jets @ Dolphins: 27-31 Lost
    Week 8: Jets vs Dolphins: 25-30 Lost
    Week 10: Jets vs Jaguars: 22-24 Lost
    Week 11: Jets @ Patriots: 14-31 Lost
    Postseason Week 20: Jets @ Colts: 17-30 Lost

    So Defense is only part of it, huh? As you pointed out, putting up 20 points in a game doesn't seem that big of a deal, yet time and again Sanchez couldn't climb out of that hole when seeing it from the other side. As well, when his defense clearly struggled in those games, Sanchez went 5-9 td/int in the regular season, though to be fair he did go 2-1 td/int against the Colts.
    How this is even a debate is laughable, Henne put up better numbers in virtually every catagory, playing against a harder schedule, using a already less talented team and a more injured one, and still put us in playoff contention. The minute Sanchez's team started to struggle, the losses pilled on. Completing 12 passes per playoff game is not very convincing.

    As for your rebuttle to my other post, Miami lost our pass catching back early(a precurser to salt in the wound of losing Ronnie, who catches out of the backfield) and got a massive 3 games more out of our nosetackle. Color me unimpressed.

    Edit: for the record, in the 13 games in which Henne started, the opposing team scored over 20 points in 10 of them. Only the Jags, Panthers, and Trent Edwards lead Bills scored less then 20 points.
    "I'm not here to be a distraction," Pouncey said.
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10...ogical-testing
    Quote Quote  

  5. -65
    nyjunc's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2004
    Posts:
    28,232
    vCash:
    21000
    Loc:
    New York
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Blog Entries:
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by 34miami23 View Post
    Once Ronnie went down against Tampa, and Ricky slowed down at the end of the season, obviously Henne had to carry more and thus made more mistakes. We have a nice group of receivers, but make no mistake, they are not big time number 1 guys ... we have that now.

    As far as Henne, I think 3 fourth quarter comebacks in 13 games says alot
    I think it's a good sign he didn'tfold in some 4th qtrs but the "comebacks" were:

    -down 3 vs. NYJ
    -down 1 vs. TB(b/c of a henne int that set up the go ahead TD for TB)
    -down 2 vs. NE

    These weren't exactly legendary comebacks.
    Quote Quote  

  6. -66
    nyjunc's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2004
    Posts:
    28,232
    vCash:
    21000
    Loc:
    New York
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Blog Entries:
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by mnphinfan View Post
    Junc you can't really believe that Henne didn't have pressure on him. We just came of a trip to the playoffs and we start 0-3. If anything there is more pressure on Henne to get the team back on track. I don't know what your philosophy is on winning and losing in the NFL but I can tell you one thing our FO's opinion is that they expect to win every game so to say Henne had no pressure is plain wrong.

    Actually Henne had to throw for 300 yards in those games because our defense was atrocious. We were in huge holes that our defense put us in which the offense had to try and overcome. If you put Sanchez in that situation where he has to try and bring his team back do you know what happens? Multiple interceptions and not a chance at getting back in the game. With Henne at least we had a chance to win those games.

    When it comes to attempt/completions per game do you know why Henne has more? It's because he is trusted to be able to lead the offense and make the plays/reads required of him. He is not taking a second fiddle to the RB's who are expected to do all of the work. If Sanchez was as good as you say he is he would have been given the chance to prove it, not sit back in the shadows of his O-line and RB and ride their coattails for wins.

    Lastly to say Sanches doesn't have the experience Henne does is a pretty poor point. Sanchez was able to take every snap with the first team offense last year. Henne not so. Pennington took about 85% of the first team snaps in OTA's and training camp so to say Henne had plenty of work with the first stringers is flat out wrong. I would be willing to bet that Sanches had more first string reps in his first year of practice than Henne did in his 2 years combined.

    Some of your thinking and reasoning is so flawed it's no wonder you are a Jet's fan.
    Everyone knew you overachieved a bit in 2008, no one expected Miami to be legit contenders in 2009 and when you start 0-3 it's near impossible to rebound and make the playoffs. That took the pressure off of him where he could just play and develop.

    henne threw for 300 yds in those games b/c the opposing D's played soft w/ huge leads and while the D deserves its share of the blame for falling behind so does the O led by henne.


    Henne had more att/comp a game b/c his teams were trailing more in games and Sanchez was a rookie QB.

    Sanchez was a rookie, henne a 2nd year player who sat a year+ behind a great mentor. That is a HUGE difference, if you don't think so you haven't followed this game long.
    Quote Quote  

  7. -67
    34miami23's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Oct 2005
    Posts:
    325
    vCash:
    1016
    Loc:
    Virgina
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    I think it's a good sign he didn'tfold in some 4th qtrs but the "comebacks" were:

    -down 3 vs. NYJ
    -down 1 vs. TB(b/c of a henne int that set up the go ahead TD for TB)
    -down 2 vs. NE

    These weren't exactly legendary comebacks.
    I agree they weren't HUGE, but important nonetheless.

    The Pats game we were down 14-0 at the gate and it looked like we were going to bet blown away, but he brought us back. The TB game showed that he could rebound from his own mistakes. The Jets game was in prime time and he had a magnificent game.

    There were other moments though, such as the panthers game when he made clutch throws, the titans game that brought us back to go to OT that gets me excited about him as the potential future.
    Quote Quote  

  8. -68
    nyjunc's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2004
    Posts:
    28,232
    vCash:
    21000
    Loc:
    New York
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Blog Entries:
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Games in which opponents of the New York Jets scored more then 20 points:
    Week 4: Jets @ Saints: 14-24 Lost
    Week 5: Jets @ Dolphins: 27-31 Lost
    Week 8: Jets vs Dolphins: 25-30 Lost
    Week 10: Jets vs Jaguars: 22-24 Lost
    Week 11: Jets @ Patriots: 14-31 Lost
    Postseason Week 20: Jets @ Colts: 17-30 Lost

    So Defense is only part of it, huh? As you pointed out, putting up 20 points in a game doesn't seem that big of a deal, yet time and again Sanchez couldn't climb out of that hole when seeing it from the other side. As well, when his defense clearly struggled in those games, Sanchez went 5-9 td/int in the regular season, though to be fair he did go 2-1 td/int against the Colts.
    How this is even a debate is laughable, Henne put up better numbers in virtually every catagory, playing against a harder schedule, using a already less talented team and a more injured one, and still put us in playoff contention. The minute Sanchez's team started to struggle, the losses pilled on. Completing 12 passes per playoff game is not very convincing.

    As for your rebuttle to my other post, Miami lost our pass catching back early(a precurser to salt in the wound of losing Ronnie, who catches out of the backfield) and got a massive 3 games more out of our nosetackle. Color me unimpressed.

    Edit: for the record, in the 13 games in which Henne started, the opposing team scored over 20 points in 10 of them. Only the Jags, Panthers, and Trent Edwards lead Bills scored less then 20 points.
    What is the point? Sanchez against the saints and apats and helped put us in a hole we couldn't overcome.

    The dolphin games were certainly not sanchez's fault and the Jags game our D allowed a last minute TD. When did this happen to henne late in the year?

    You guys are too into individual stats, this is why we have a genertaion of misnformed football fans that think Peyton is better than Brady or that Steve Young was better than Montana.
    Quote Quote  

  9. -69
    ckparrothead's Avatar
    Premium Member

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    May 2002
    Posts:
    47,133
    vCash:
    2719
    Loc:
    Tampa, FL
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Blog Entries:
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Henne was "thrown in" w/ zero pressure at 0-3. Sanchez had pressure all year.
    That is absolutely, positively the most absurd thing I've seen written around here in at least a week...and that's saying something. Zero pressure? Are you kidding me? Last I checked, the Dolphins were the defending Division Champs in 2008. Their 0-3 start only INCREASED the pressure, it didn't decrease it. Nobody was saying oh well there goes the season. The pressure to win after starting the first three games with losses was incredible.

    There's pressure on every team in any situation. There's always pressure to win. But I will say that expectations were much higher of Chad Henne than Mark Sanchez. Most everyone in and around the Jets understood that if you're starting a true rookie at QB, you live with the mistakes and the losses. After successfully enacting arguably the biggest one year turnaround in NFL history, winning the division and getting to the playoffs, nobody in Miami understood a single one of the team's 9 losses this year because expectations were high. Fans and media were even more critical than usual over the losses to the Colts and Saints, and those were the best teams in the league.

    I think overall henne had a better year last year BUT Sanchez stepped up when we needed him most and henne stepped back when you needed him most.
    What a cutesy and wholly inaccurate way to present the situation. The Miami defense allowed 28 points a game over the final three losses. Vince Young, Matt Schaub and Ben Rapelisberger had their way with the Miami defense. Not that Chad Henne had much of a chance to win the Steelers game since he was knocked out of it with a 92 QB rating and with the game still in reach at 17-10.

    I always love nebulous, wholly unprovable and therefore undisprovable generic statements like "Sanchez came through for his team when it counted while Henne let his team down." Way to be a homer.
    Twitter: @ckparrot
    Quote Quote  

  10. -70
    SpurzN703's Avatar
    I like your style Dude

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Oct 2004
    Posts:
    26,602
    vCash:
    19100
    Loc:
    Springfield, VA
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Cam Wake 91Tannehill 172013 Dolphins Logo
    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    The problem is falling behind 27 is not just about the defense, the O plays a big role in that as well. if the O is putting up points you aren't falling behind by 27.



    Henne had a very good game in a agme they fell behind 27-0 and lost 27-20 but Sanchez wasn't good when we WON 24-24 at Cincy in the playoffs?

    Falling behind 27 pts is on the O as well, henne did a nice job leading them back but overall the game is a failure b/c they couldn't score points early and keep it a game.



    part of the reason your D was ineffective and ours was not was that our QB wasn't turning it over and wasn't setting up your opponent in good FP.


    I think both have the chance to be really good, I like what I saw out of both of them. This debate may go on forever, who knows? I'm not saying Sanchez is better right now, i think that is TBD. All I am saying is Sanchez played his best in our biggest games and Henne played his worst.
    The Titans had scoring drives of 10 plays for 81 yds, 10 plays for 74 yds, and 5 plays for 78 yds. Henne also threw the game tying TD to Fasano during a 10 play, 90 yd TD drive.
    The Texans had scoring drives of 6 plays for 45 yds (FG), 9 plays for 80 yds, 6 plays for 94 yds (all in the 1st quarter), 3 plays for 28 yds, and 12 plays for 60 yds (FG)
    The Steelers had scoring drives of 12 plays for 80 yds, 6 plays for 67 yds, 9 plays for 52 yds (FG), 8 plays for 90 yds, 8 plays for 51 yds (FG), and 14 plays for 83 yds (FG)

    Out of all of these drives, the only one you could blame the QB for would be the 3 play 28 yd drive Houston had (out of 12 drives in the game).

    Now let's hear your retort please.....



    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. Henne Vs. Sanchez
    By Rustedsalvo in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-15-2010, 02:28 AM
  2. Henne/Sanchez: Who Gives Finfans More to Smile About? Sanchez>Henne
    By KTOWNFINFAN in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 112
    Last Post: 08-26-2010, 05:03 PM
  3. Another Henne-Sanchez Debate 6/11/10
    By zackmandude63 in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 06-21-2010, 09:00 AM
  4. Return to the Henne-Sanchez debate.
    By PhinPhan910 in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 06-14-2010, 02:12 PM
  5. Henne vs Sanchez
    By Rixon in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-13-2009, 10:12 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •