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Thread: Merged X12: Ongoing Henne vs. Sanchez Debate...

  1. -71
    34miami23's Avatar
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    I wonder what Chad Henne would be like if he had a good defense to hide behind ... I hope we find out this year
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    That is absolutely, positively the most absurd thing I've seen written around here in at least a week...and that's saying something. Zero pressure? Are you kidding me? Last I checked, the Dolphins were the defending Division Champs in 2008. Their 0-3 start only INCREASED the pressure, it didn't decrease it. Nobody was saying oh well there goes the season. The pressure to win after starting the first three games with losses was incredible.

    There's pressure on every team in any situation. There's always pressure to win. But I will say that expectations were much higher of Chad Henne than Mark Sanchez. Most everyone in and around the Jets understood that if you're starting a true rookie at QB, you live with the mistakes and the losses. After successfully enacting arguably the biggest one year turnaround in NFL history, winning the division and getting to the playoffs, nobody in Miami understood a single one of the team's 9 losses this year because expectations were high. Fans and media were even more critical than usual over the losses to the Colts and Saints, and those were the best teams in the league.



    What a cutesy and wholly inaccurate way to present the situation. The Miami defense allowed 28 points a game over the final three losses. Vince Young, Matt Schaub and Ben Rapelisberger had their way with the Miami defense. Not that Chad Henne had much of a chance to win the Steelers game since he was knocked out of it with a 92 QB rating and with the game still in reach at 17-10.

    I always love nebulous, wholly unprovable and therefore undisprovable generic statements like "Sanchez came through for his team when it counted while Henne let his team down." Way to be a homer.
    The 0-3 start took all the pressure off henne. if he was the starter week 1 the pressure would have been building but he was a 1st year starter coming in after you lost your starter for the year due to an injury and you were 0-3. he had zero pressure, the pressure came when the Phins had destiny in their own hands and he played his worst football of the year those last 3 games w/ that pressure on.


    Any realistic Phins fan expected to be around .500 going into 2009. We all know you benefitted from Brady being out and an incredibly weak sched. That is not a knock on Miami b/c they did it and we couldn't w/ the same opportunity but the '08 team was far from a great team and most logical observers expected a little step back which is what happened.


    The Saints and Colts games were big time chokes, that is why people were critical. if they played a close game throught and lost late they would have been praised but when you choke away a lead like they had vs. No or when the opposing O is on the field for 15 mins and yet they score 27 pts and win those are bad losses.

    The O had nothing to do w/ those 28 PPG? being ineffective, setting up the opposing O's w/ turnovers and good FP had nothing to do w/ it? not scoring and allowing games to get out of hand early had nothing to do w/ it?

    AGAIN, your D deserves its share of the blame but to act like it was all D is foolish as henne and the O were terrible in allowing opponents to get off to huge leads.



    Actually it's proven. I showed the #s, I showed the results. Sanchez played his best in our biggest games, Henne played his worst in your biggest games.

    I'm a homer b/c i said both QBs had good 1st years and both look like they will be good starting QBs? if that's the criteria then I guess I am a homer.

    Sorry if I am not making the same excuses for henne in those last 3 games as you are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Everyone knew you overachieved a bit in 2008, no one expected Miami to be legit contenders in 2009 and when you start 0-3 it's near impossible to rebound and make the playoffs. That took the pressure off of him where he could just play and develop.

    henne threw for 300 yds in those games b/c the opposing D's played soft w/ huge leads and while the D deserves its share of the blame for falling behind so does the O led by henne.


    Henne had more att/comp a game b/c his teams were trailing more in games and Sanchez was a rookie QB.

    Sanchez was a rookie, henne a 2nd year player who sat a year+ behind a great mentor. That is a HUGE difference, if you don't think so you haven't followed this game long.
    Henne vs the Jets in 2009: 32 of 47, 353 yds, 3 TDS and 0 INTs. QB rating of 109.
    Sanchez vs the Phins in 2009: 32 of 59, 437 yds, 3 TDS and 0 INTs. QB rating of 94.

    Both played well in their matchups. Sanchez had the team with the better defense and WRs. They both deserve props.



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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    The 0-3 start took all the pressure off henne. if he was the starter week 1 the pressure would have been building but he was a 1st year starter coming in after you lost your starter for the year due to an injury and you were 0-3. he had zero pressure, the pressure came when the Phins had destiny in their own hands and he played his worst football of the year those last 3 games w/ that pressure on.


    Any realistic Phins fan expected to be around .500 going into 2009. We all know you benefitted from Brady being out and an incredibly weak sched. That is not a knock on Miami b/c they did it and we couldn't w/ the same opportunity but the '08 team was far from a great team and most logical observers expected a little step back which is what happened.


    The Saints and Colts games were big time chokes, that is why people were critical. if they played a close game throught and lost late they would have been praised but when you choke away a lead like they had vs. No or when the opposing O is on the field for 15 mins and yet they score 27 pts and win those are bad losses.

    The O had nothing to do w/ those 28 PPG? being ineffective, setting up the opposing O's w/ turnovers and good FP had nothing to do w/ it? not scoring and allowing games to get out of hand early had nothing to do w/ it?

    AGAIN, your D deserves its share of the blame but to act like it was all D is foolish as henne and the O were terrible in allowing opponents to get off to huge leads.



    Actually it's proven. I showed the #s, I showed the results. Sanchez played his best in our biggest games, Henne played his worst in your biggest games.

    I'm a homer b/c i said both QBs had good 1st years and both look like they will be good starting QBs? if that's the criteria then I guess I am a homer.

    Sorry if I am not making the same excuses for henne in those last 3 games as you are.
    You still haven't told me how the Phins turned the ball over giving their opponents good field position. Let's hear it
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    What is the point? Sanchez against the saints and apats and helped put us in a hole we couldn't overcome.

    The dolphin games were certainly not sanchez's fault and the Jags game our D allowed a last minute TD. When did this happen to henne late in the year?

    You guys are too into individual stats, this is why we have a genertaion of misnformed football fans that think Peyton is better than Brady or that Steve Young was better than Montana.
    Ah i see, so when teams put up 27 points or more against the Dolphins its Henne who failed(or "didnt play the best football when it mattered"), yet when the Jets give up 20 points and lose the games there isn't a point and Sanchez shouldn't be held accountable for his individual numbers. The irony is so thick i could cut it with a knife.
    And every game Henne played last year(save for the Bills) came down to the last minute or two, or even the very last drive of the game to decide. Sometimes our D held, some of the time it was Henne driving us down the field, and sometimes our defense put us in a hole that was way to deep.

    Just the opposite, im pointing out that the Jets had the number 1 ranked defense, a plethora of talent on both sides, arguable the best offensive line in football, and what Sanchez did(or didnt do) in games. I've specifically asked for opinions on how Sanchez would do if given similar team scenarios. As you have been determined to ignore an entire side of football and willing throw blame to the QB for losing games, i did the same by merely looking up how your team in similar(though still less points) situations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhinzN703 View Post
    The Titans had scoring drives of 10 plays for 81 yds, 10 plays for 74 yds, and 5 plays for 78 yds. Henne also threw the game tying TD to Fasano during a 10 play, 90 yd TD drive.
    The Texans had scoring drives of 6 plays for 45 yds (FG), 9 plays for 80 yds, 6 plays for 94 yds (all in the 1st quarter), 3 plays for 28 yds, and 12 plays for 60 yds (FG)
    The Steelers had scoring drives of 12 plays for 80 yds, 6 plays for 67 yds, 9 plays for 52 yds (FG), 8 plays for 90 yds, 8 plays for 51 yds (FG), and 14 plays for 83 yds (FG)

    Out of all of these drives, the only one you could blame the QB for would be the 3 play 28 yd drive Houston had (out of 12 drives in the game).

    Now let's hear your retort please.....
    -Miami D picked off Young on 1st drive setting Miami up at Ten 25, henne led them to a FG
    -Next drive- 15 yards and a punt
    -next drive Miami fumbles at ten 25
    -next drive, Miami had 1st and G from the 8 and settles for FG
    -next drive, henne picked off in FG range


    vs. hou:

    1st half possessions:

    -punt
    -punt
    -INT at Mia 28 that setp up Hou TD
    -punt
    -FG

    the set up 7 against them and scored 3, that's a -4 net. You'll win alot of games like that.

    he didn't finish the Pitt game but down 17-10 before he came out he throws an INT, the Miami D gets it back on an INT and in FG he fumbles and gets sacked on back to back plays taking them out of FG range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Ah i see, so when teams put up 27 points or more against the Dolphins its Henne who failed(or "didnt play the best football when it mattered"), yet when the Jets give up 20 points and lose the games there isn't a point and Sanchez shouldn't be held accountable for his individual numbers. The irony is so thick i could cut it with a knife.
    And every game Henne played last year(save for the Bills) came down to the last minute or two, or even the very last drive of the game to decide. Sometimes our D held, some of the time it was Henne driving us down the field, and sometimes our defense put us in a hole that was way to deep.

    Just the opposite, im pointing out that the Jets had the number 1 ranked defense, a plethora of talent on both sides, arguable the best offensive line in football, and what Sanchez did(or didnt do) in games. I've specifically asked for opinions on how Sanchez would do if given similar team scenarios. As you have been determined to ignore an entire side of football and willing throw blame to the QB for losing games, i did the same by merely looking up how your team in similar(though still less points) situations.
    I didn't say ALL the blame was on henne, I said he played his worst games and he did. You guys are afraid to blame him and place all the blame on the defense. AGAIN, the D deserves its share of the blame but so does Henne and the O for not scoring and not keeping the team in the game, taking some pressure off the defense.

    If we reversed the situations I think Sanchez has more success in Miami than henne here. That's if Mark had a year + to learn and if henne was thrown into the fire day 1. Putting a rookie Sanchez on Miami last year and I don;t think he ahs the success Henne had and i think putting 2nd year henne on our team last year he could have had more success than Sanchez.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    -Miami D picked off Young on 1st drive setting Miami up at Ten 25, henne led them to a FG
    -Next drive- 15 yards and a punt
    -next drive Miami fumbles at ten 25
    -next drive, Miami had 1st and G from the 8 and settles for FG
    -next drive, henne picked off in FG range


    vs. hou:

    1st half possessions:

    -punt
    -punt
    -INT at Mia 28 that setp up Hou TD
    -punt
    -FG

    the set up 7 against them and scored 3, that's a -4 net. You'll win alot of games like that.

    he didn't finish the Pitt game but down 17-10 before he came out he throws an INT, the Miami D gets it back on an INT and in FG he fumbles and gets sacked on back to back plays taking them out of FG range.
    Alright, you had said that the QB turned it over and put the opponent into good field position. None of what you just said backs that up. Your argument now is that Henne didn't throw enough TDs. You also include how the Phins fumblred the ball at the TEN 25, this is Henne's fault somehow?

    I had already mentioned the INT vs Houston as it was the only time Henne had put the opponent in a good position to score (this after 13 other scoring drives I mentioned earlier, none of which were Henne's fault).

    Do we know have to point out how many times the Jets had to settle for FGs? Feely was 18 of 21 inside 40 yards in the regular season. Carpenter was 16 of 17 inside 40 yards as well. Feely kicking inside 40 yards 21 times shows that sometimes you don't always score TDs (which you blame the QB for apparently).

    You also blame the Phins offense for the Colts loss. How about Henne's throw to Ginn in the endzone where Ginn dropped it? That Henne's fault too?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    The 0-3 start took all the pressure off henne.
    Yes. Keep saying it. Because that makes it less absurd, just saying it more.

    if he was the starter week 1 the pressure would have been building but he was a 1st year starter coming in after you lost your starter for the year due to an injury and you were 0-3. he had zero pressure, the pressure came when the Phins had destiny in their own hands and he played his worst football of the year those last 3 games w/ that pressure on.
    LMFAO. OK. Yeah. No pressure on the guy to win with a division champion team sitting around him. Oh but I notice the pressure only flipped on (evidently 'pressure to perform' is like a switch, it's on or it's off) in Week 15. That was the time. Right then. Not Week 14 when we beat the Jaguars. Not Week 13 when we beat the Patriots. Week 15. It was right then.

    And sure, he had his worst performances in those final three weeks. Except, oh wait he didn't. At least, not in any factual sense. In the complete fictional sense of a homerific Jets fan, I can see how you would think that. But as for facts, sorry but they're not on your side.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    I didn't say ALL the blame was on henne, I said he played his worst games and he did. You guys are afraid to blame him and place all the blame on the defense. AGAIN, the D deserves its share of the blame but so does Henne and the O for not scoring and not keeping the team in the game, taking some pressure off the defense.

    If we reversed the situations I think Sanchez has more success in Miami than henne here. That's if Mark had a year + to learn and if henne was thrown into the fire day 1. Putting a rookie Sanchez on Miami last year and I don;t think he ahs the success Henne had and i think putting 2nd year henne on our team last year he could have had more success than Sanchez.
    And when opposing teams weren't smothered to death by the best defense in the league, held to less then 2 touchdowns and a field goal, Sanchez played at his worst. How is it more acceptable that Sanchez can be excused from not scoring 21 points, but Henne is playing at his worst when he can't score 31 points. I'll admit, had Henne not thrown that int against the Titans we probably would have won, yet he was able to tie the game while our defense took the night off.
    The minute the Jets D didn't (nearly) single handedly win games, Sanchez struggled, and more times then not(see: every) New York lost the games. As the question is "who is the better QB right now?" i can hardly see any arguement for Sanchez given all the factors. Showing "poise" while handing the ball off and holding teams to 2 scores just doesn't impress me.

    Hardly the question that was asked. On their respective teams, had the Jets dealt with even slightly similar problems the Dolphins did, it could be argued that the Jets would have had the second overall pick in the draft. Meanwhile Henne took all the problems in stride, produced more with less against better adversity, and at the very least this is up for debate(though not much of one).
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