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Thread: Sanchez or Tebow?

  1. -11
    Locke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    comp % and QBR
    So how do you determine how well a QB is doing, since you are so condescending to anyone who brings up the widely used methods? I'm curious as to how you've justified to yourself that Sanchez is a good QB. You can't really say wins, because then you'd also be saying that Tebow is a good QB, which is just crazy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    So how do you determine how well a QB is doing, since you are so condescending to anyone who brings up the widely used methods? I'm curious as to how you've justified to yourself that Sanchez is a good QB. You can't really say wins, because then you'd also be saying that Tebow is a good QB, which is just crazy...
    Silly Locke! It's the back to back AFCC games, duh! Although, Neil O' Donnell went to back to back AFCC games, and Kordell Stewart went to 2 AFCC games. They weren't back to back, but still.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    So how do you determine how well a QB is doing, since you are so condescending to anyone who brings up the widely used methods? I'm curious as to how you've justified to yourself that Sanchez is a good QB. You can't really say wins, because then you'd also be saying that Tebow is a good QB, which is just crazy...
    Watch games, watch when teams need their QB to make plays most and if that QB comes through. This year mark has not come through, he has taKen a step back(as have many young QBs) but last year he came through more often than not and he has played his best in January which many QBs do not do. I don't look at #s only, some guys put up great #s early in games or in garbage time and can't play under the brigfht lights- that's not the case w/ Mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    Silly Locke! It's the back to back AFCC games, duh! Although, Neil O' Donnell went to back to back AFCC games, and Kordell Stewart went to 2 AFCC games. They weren't back to back, but still.
    The AFC was a complete joke back then and was O'Donnell a 1st and 2nd yr QB?

    By the way, you guys love #s so much yet never post any when they favor mark such as in January(you can't understand everything by looking at the #s but I saw all 3 of these QBs play in every playoff game and Mark was vastly superior to the other 2).

    Sanchez(6 games as starter): 95-157, 1155 yds, 61%, 9 TDs, 3 INTs, 4-2 record including 4 road wins
    O'Donnell(7 games as starter): 158-273, 1690 yds, 58%, 9 TDs, 8 INTs, 3-4 record including 2 home losses
    Stewart(4 games as starter): 68-131, 52%, 2 TDs, 8 INTs, 2-2 record inclduing 2 home losses
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    The New Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    The AFC was a complete joke back then and was O'Donnell a 1st and 2nd yr QB?

    By the way, you guys love #s so much yet never post any when they favor mark such as in January(you can't understand everything by looking at the #s but I saw all 3 of these QBs play in every playoff game and Mark was vastly superior to the other 2.

    Sanchez(6 games as starter): 95-157, 1155 yds, 61%, 9 TDs, 3 INTs, 4-2 record including 4 road wins
    O'Donnell(7 games as starter): 158-273, 1690 yds, 58%, 9 TDs, 8 INTs, 3-4 record including 2 home losses
    Stewart(4 games as starter): 68-131, 52%, 2 TDs, 8 INTs, 2-2 record inclduing 2 home losses
    I have also seen all 3 of these QBs play and Mark might be superior to Stewart (who made more plays with his legs than his arm). I agree that numbers do not always tell the story, but I've watched Mark play. I see a QB that is carried in the playoffs by the D and running game. Maybe he can get better, but call him what he is right now. Not a franchise guy!

    Sanchez 2 year playoff #'s are better than Kordell Stewart's, and Neil O' Donnell's playoffs careers. Impressive. I've posted Mark's playoff numbers before, and they show exactly what I saw. A QB that must have an excellent running game and D. The Jets only have 25 fewer rushing yards in the playoffs wins than they do passing yards.

    Give Sanchez a few more years, and we will see what the playoff numbers look like, if they make it. If the Jets can't get back to having a top 5 running game, and D, I'm willing to bet they are closer to Stewart's and O' Donnell's .
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    Locke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Watch games, watch when teams need their QB to make plays most and if that QB comes through. This year mark has not come through, he has taKen a step back(as have many young QBs) but last year he came through more often than not and he has played his best in January which many QBs do not do. I don't look at #s only, some guys put up great #s early in games or in garbage time and can't play under the brigfht lights- that's not the case w/ Mark.
    By your logic, Tim Tebow has come through for the Broncos and made plays when it counts, making him a good QB. No one outside of the most delusional would agree with that assessment. Ignoring numbers completely is disingenuous at best. YPA is an excellent barometer of how a QB is playing, for example. You can't ignore Tebow's pathetic YPA because he made a few plays with his feet at the end of a game to win a squeaker. You're taking your stance to an extreme. If you were being reasonable, you would say you should take stats with a grain of salt. Such as, higher completion % due to lots of screens and check downs, or a skewed INT stat due to tipped balls, etc. You can't just say stats don't matter at all, because they do. They tell a partial story. You look at the tape to see where the stats are lying, you don't discount them completely...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    By your logic, Tim Tebow has come through for the Broncos and made plays when it counts, making him a good QB. No one outside of the most delusional would agree with that assessment. Ignoring numbers completely is disingenuous at best. YPA is an excellent barometer of how a QB is playing, for example. You can't ignore Tebow's pathetic YPA because he made a few plays with his feet at the end of a game to win a squeaker. You're taking your stance to an extreme. If you were being reasonable, you would say you should take stats with a grain of salt. Such as, higher completion % due to lots of screens and check downs, or a skewed INT stat due to tipped balls, etc. You can't just say stats don't matter at all, because they do. They tell a partial story. You look at the tape to see where the stats are lying, you don't discount them completely...

    Locke...it is no use...he is more stubborn than I am..
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    The Confessor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LANGER72 View Post
    Locke...it is no use...he is more stubborn than I am..
    Not sure "Stubborn" is the adjective I would've used......
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    Tannehill 17Cam Wake 912013 Dolphins Logo
    Not even close. Football is about winning games and right now, Tebow is winning games and Sanchez is losing games. Nothing else to be said.
    "Fundamentals, technique, execution -- primary. Scheme -- secondary."

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    jared81's Avatar
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    So Trent dilfer must be a first ballot hall of famer to you junc. He won a super bowl!
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    nyjunc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    I have also seen all 3 of these QBs play and Mark might be superior to Stewart (who made more plays with his legs than his arm). I agree that numbers do not always tell the story, but I've watched Mark play. I see a QB that is carried in the playoffs by the D and running game. Maybe he can get better, but call him what he is right now. Not a franchise guy!

    Sanchez 2 year playoff #'s are better than Kordell Stewart's, and Neil O' Donnell's playoffs careers. Impressive. I've posted Mark's playoff numbers before, and they show exactly what I saw. A QB that must have an excellent running game and D. The Jets only have 25 fewer rushing yards in the playoffs wins than they do passing yards.

    Give Sanchez a few more years, and we will see what the playoff numbers look like, if they make it. If the Jets can't get back to having a top 5 running game, and D, I'm willing to bet they are closer to Stewart's and O' Donnell's .
    How good do you think our D is? this isn't the '85 Bears, '00 Ravens or '02 Bucs. In his rookie year the D and running game definitely carried him to the playoffs, last year he was a main reason we won 11 games as both the D and running game were much worse than '09.

    It's not about rush yds or pass yds, it's about making plays and limiting mistakes and Mark has done that. You guys get too wowed by meaningless fantasy #s(except when they are good for mark then you ignore them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    By your logic, Tim Tebow has come through for the Broncos and made plays when it counts, making him a good QB. No one outside of the most delusional would agree with that assessment. Ignoring numbers completely is disingenuous at best. YPA is an excellent barometer of how a QB is playing, for example. You can't ignore Tebow's pathetic YPA because he made a few plays with his feet at the end of a game to win a squeaker. You're taking your stance to an extreme. If you were being reasonable, you would say you should take stats with a grain of salt. Such as, higher completion % due to lots of screens and check downs, or a skewed INT stat due to tipped balls, etc. You can't just say stats don't matter at all, because they do. They tell a partial story. You look at the tape to see where the stats are lying, you don't discount them completely...
    Tebow has done it very briefly, if he continues this and they keep winning and make the playoffs I will say no matter what his #s look like tebow had a good year.

    Stats do tell part of the story but it's not black and white from a boxscore. We can see 2 QBs in a game, one throws for 300yds and the other 150- does that automatically mean the 300 yd QB was better? No, it's about who made plays and who limited mistakes. Look at the #s in the title game last year, it would appear Mark was much better than Ben but Ben made huge plays to win the game despite having a rating in the 30s.

    Quote Originally Posted by jared81 View Post
    So Trent dilfer must be a first ballot hall of famer to you junc. He won a super bowl!
    No he's not a HOfer but he's a very underrated QB, notice how many SBs the great Ravens D has won w/o him? You still need quality QB play to win.
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