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Thread: Whao!! Jets may release santonio holmes wednesday!!

  1. -91
    Vaark's Avatar
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    At 11-2 the Ravens were the far superior team at home and on the road. Cinci was a joke by the time the 16th game and beyond rolled around. All they could beat were losing teams. To compare the 09 version to the mighty 08 Ravens would be like comparing buttfumble to Aaron Rodgers. Sorry, doesn't resonate.

    And, ahh, so all the sudden an 11-5 team without Brady is better than the next year's 10-6 team with him, eh? Especially that a gun shy Brady started the season on shaky legs.. and oh isn't that when the jest beat him, and just barely before he pummelled you later in the season?

    Oh and if the presence of the almighty Brady is so relevent, then you've gotta admit Eli is elite considering he's beaten him the last 3 times they faced off, right?
    Last edited by Vaark; 02-27-2012 at 02:59 PM.


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  2. -92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaark View Post
    At 11-2 the Ravens were the far superior team at home and on the road. Cinci was a joke by the time the 16th game and beyond rolled around. All they could beat were losing teams. To compare the 09 version to the mighty 08 Ravens would be like comparing buttfumble to Aaron Rodgers. Sorry, doesn't resonate.

    And, ahh, so all the sudden an 11-5 team without Brady is better than the next year's 10-6 team with him, eh? Especially that a gun shy Brady started the season on shaky legs.. and oh isn't that when the jest beat him, and just barely before he pummelled you later in the season?

    Oh and if the presence of the almighty Brady is so relevent, then you've gotta admit Eli is elite considering he's beaten him the last 3 times they faced off, right?
    When were the Ravens 11-2?

    Bal finished up the season winning 9 of their last 11.

    They beat:
    11-5 Miami
    5-11 oak
    4-12 Cle
    8-8 Hou
    9-6-1 Philly
    4-11-1 Cincy
    8-8 Wash
    9-7 Dal
    5-11 Jax

    ONE legit playoff team on that list(Philly and Philly was 0-2-1 in that stretch)

    2009 Cincy swept div rd bound Baltimore, beat playoff bound GB and kept the defending SB champs out of the playoffs by sweeping Pitt.

    Eli wasn't great in any of the meetings against Brady's Pats, his D is what carried the day in all 3 games. Eli is really good, if he keeps it up maybe he can enter the elite category but he's not there yet.
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  3. -93
    Vaark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    When were the Ravens 11-2?

    Bal finished up the season winning 9 of their last 11.

    They beat:
    11-5 Miami
    5-11 oak
    4-12 Cle
    8-8 Hou
    9-6-1 Philly
    4-11-1 Cincy
    8-8 Wash
    9-7 Dal
    5-11 Jax

    ONE legit playoff team on that list(Philly and Philly was 0-2-1 in that stretch)

    2009 Cincy swept div rd bound Baltimore, beat playoff bound GB and kept the defending SB champs out of the playoffs by sweeping Pitt.

    Eli wasn't great in any of the meetings against Brady's Pats, his D is what carried the day in all 3 games. Eli is really good, if he keeps it up maybe he can enter the elite category but he's not there yet.
    I stand corrected, it was 9-2 but otherwise stand by my assertions completely. The Ravens were an offensive and defensive force to be reckoned with for most of the season and they kept their mojo going well into the playoffs until they met the ultimate SB champion. Cinci was a below average offensive team that peaked well too early and limped into the home stretch not beating any teams that they should have. As teams go through cycles, a case can be made that at their end cycle they were not even as good as Denver was to start the year off 6-0 including wins over NE, those same Bengals, the Cowboys and Chargers before the roof fell in on them. Neither team, nor the jest, were good enough that year to sustain a season, but at least Cinci and Denver did peak at one time. The Ravens were one of the top teams in most stats led by a rookie QB and they would have kicked the **** out of either the 09 Bengals or the 09 Jets hands-down.

    Eli beat Brady 3 times. Either he gets the kind of credit you're trying to give his defense while refusing to acknowledge that same reality for the last 3 seasons of buttfumble, or if not, then beating an 11-5 team without Brady is just as damn impressive. Can't have it both ways.. or in this case 3ways since you try to give buttfumble credit he's clearly never been due.
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  4. -94
    jared81's Avatar
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    this thread is exactly why i hate the offseason.
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  5. -95
    The New Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    When were the Ravens 11-2?

    Bal finished up the season winning 9 of their last 11.

    They beat:
    11-5 Miami
    5-11 oak
    4-12 Cle
    8-8 Hou
    9-6-1 Philly
    4-11-1 Cincy
    8-8 Wash
    9-7 Dal
    5-11 Jax

    ONE legit playoff team on that list(Philly and Philly was 0-2-1 in that stretch)

    2009 Cincy swept div rd bound Baltimore, beat playoff bound GB and kept the defending SB champs out of the playoffs by sweeping Pitt.
    Are you seriously trying to say that 09 Cincy was better than 08 Bal? Cincy only won 5 games against teams that were 8-8 or better and 4 of those wins came from the 9-7 Pitt and Bal. Sweeping Pitt after a Super Bowl win is not as impressive as it might seem.

    For whatever reason Pitt always has a down year after a Super Bowl win. They have missed the playoffs after a Super Bowl win 3 straight times now. In 1980 the 6-10 Bengals swept the 9-7 Steelers who had won the Super Bowl the year before. In 2006 the 8-8 Bengals almost swept the 8-8 Steelers, but lost in overtime in the last game of the season making them split the series. You already know what happened in 09. The point is, just because Cincy swept Pitt and Bal in 09 does not mean that they were a good team. Since Pitt and Bal were just 9-7 (one game from .500) You have to look at what they did outside of those games to determine what kind of team they really were. They went 1-4 against teams with a winning record.
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  6. -96
    nyjunc's Avatar
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    You make excuses about the Jets easy sched when Baltimore beat one tough team in that 9-2 stretch- how is it ok for them and not for the Jets?

    You don't think that ballhawking D that was scoring almost every week and setting Bal up every week had anything to do w/ their O looking good as far as the rankings? That O was certainly not impressive in 3 postseason games that year.

    The '09 Bengals swept a similar Baltimore team except this one had a 2nd year QB instead of a rookie and Ray Rice.

    Eli deserves a ton of credit for his postseason and for helping his tam win 2 SBs, that doesn't make him elite but he's really good and has elevated his game. Can we not forget that just one year ago he threw 25 INTs and led chokes to end both '09 and '10 to help keep his team out of the playoffs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    Are you seriously trying to say that 09 Cincy was better than 08 Bal? Cincy only won 5 games against teams that were 8-8 or better and 4 of those wins came from the 9-7 Pitt and Bal. Sweeping Pitt after a Super Bowl win is not as impressive as it might seem.

    For whatever reason Pitt always has a down year after a Super Bowl win. They have missed the playoffs after a Super Bowl win 3 straight times now. In 1980 the 6-10 Bengals swept the 9-7 Steelers who had won the Super Bowl the year before. In 2006 the 8-8 Bengals almost swept the 8-8 Steelers, but lost in overtime in the last game of the season making them split the series. You already know what happened in 09. The point is, just because Cincy swept Pitt and Bal in 09 does not mean that they were a good team. Since Pitt and Bal were just 9-7 (one game from .500) You have to look at what they did outside of those games to determine what kind of team they really were. They went 1-4 against teams with a winning record.
    Those 4 wins were pretty big, right? if Bal sweeps Cincy they are 11-5 again, if Pitt sweeps Cincy they are 11-5 and in postseason. those were big wins, '08 Bal's biggest win was against Philly. other than that they didn't beat anyone of note and were swept by Pitt and got crsuhed by NYG.

    What does 1980 have to do w/ 2009? totally different eras and teams, in '2006 they had the ben motorcycle thing and not knowing how to react after winning. In 2009 they had that experience of being defending champs, they lost b/c Cincy was better than they were.

    Do I think '09 Cincy was better than '08 Bal? No but I don't think Bal was much better and we got Cincy on the road, you got Bal at home. No matter what way you slice it we got the job done the first 2 rds on the road and Miami couldn't get it done in the WC rd at home.
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  8. -98
    The New Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Those 4 wins were pretty big, right? if Bal sweeps Cincy they are 11-5 again, if Pitt sweeps Cincy they are 11-5 and in postseason. those were big wins, '08 Bal's biggest win was against Philly. other than that they didn't beat anyone of note and were swept by Pitt and got crsuhed by NYG.

    What does 1980 have to do w/ 2009? totally different eras and teams, in '2006 they had the ben motorcycle thing and not knowing how to react after winning. In 2009 they had that experience of being defending champs, they lost b/c Cincy was better than they were.

    Do I think '09 Cincy was better than '08 Bal? No but I don't think Bal was much better and we got Cincy on the road, you got Bal at home. No matter what way you slice it we got the job done the first 2 rds on the road and Miami couldn't get it done in the WC rd at home.
    Just pointing out that a bad Cincy team has swept Pitt multiple times the past. That doesn't make them a good team. It also shows that Pitt has historically had down years after winning the Super Bowl. You can think Cincy beating Pitt twice was big, but 7-9 CHi, 4-12 KC, 5-11 Oak, and 5-11 Cle also beat Pitt that year. Outside of Pitt and Bal (who were 9-7 each) Cincy went 1-4 against teams with a winning record.

    You can also think the Jets were better because they advanced in the playoffs, but those who are not homers consider the opponents. You overrate the Jets playoff opponents and underrate the 08 Dolphins and 08 Ravens. The bottom line is very different when the Dolphins have to face a very good team and the Jets get to face one of the weakest WC teams that the NFL has seen in a while.

    Like Vaark said:

    The Ravens were one of the top teams in most stats led by a rookie QB and they would have kicked the **** out of either the 09 Bengals or the 09 Jets hands-down.

    Having to face them instead of Cincy, or a banged up Indy team in 10 is very, very different.


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  9. -99
    nyjunc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    Just pointing out that a bad Cincy team has swept Pitt multiple times the past. That doesn't make them a good team. It also shows that Pitt has historically had down years after winning the Super Bowl. You can think Cincy beating Pitt twice was big, but 7-9 CHi, 4-12 KC, 5-11 Oak, and 5-11 Cle also beat Pitt that year.

    You can also think the Jets were better because they advanced in the playoffs, but those who are not homers consider the opponents. You overrate the Jets playoff opponents and underrate the 08 Dolphins and 08 Ravens. The bottom line is very different when the Dolphins have to face a very good team and the Jets get to face one of the weakest WC teams that the NFL has seen in a while.
    1980 has nothing to do w/ today, in 1981 the Bengals made the SB so clearly they were headed in the right direction and the Pitt dynasty was ending.

    The '09 Jets were MUCH better than the '08 Phins, not even comparable. The Jets didn't face one of the weakest teams to play in the WC rd in a while- the 2008 Miami Dolphins.
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  10. -100
    The New Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    1980 has nothing to do w/ today, in 1981 the Bengals made the SB so clearly they were headed in the right direction and the Pitt dynasty was ending.

    The '09 Jets were MUCH better than the '08 Phins, not even comparable. The Jets didn't face one of the weakest teams to play in the WC rd in a while- the 2008 Miami Dolphins.
    It just shows a pattern that Pitt has down years after Super Bowl wins and that a bad Cincy team has swept Pitt before. Sweeping a division opponent (especially when that division opponent has a down year) does not make you a good team. You keep trying to prove that Cincy was a good team because they swept Pitt, but Pitt wasn't very good that year. Pitt also lost to: 7-9 CHi, 4-12 KC, 5-11 Oak, and 5-11 Cle.


    The 08 Dolphins aren't comparable to the 09 Jets? Is it because the 09 Jets won 9 whole games and lost to 6 teams that didn't make the playoffs? Is it because they faced 2 teams to end the season that had absolutely no reason to win and allowed them to get to 9-7 instead of 7-9? Maybe it is because they faced Cincy and an overrated SD (that missed 3 FGs in a 3 point loss) to make it to the AFCC game? You can think what you want, but it is just as crazy to me as you thinking that the Jets are an Elite team and that buttfumble is a franchise QB.
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