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Thread: Whao!! Jets may release santonio holmes wednesday!!

  1. -81
    Vaark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    I don't know what thepoint is of showing the difference when the starters were in? we trailed by just 5 in the reg season in the 3rd and we were w/in a FG in the 4th in the title game. It's not like we lost 38-3 or 62-7.

    and how do you not count the points scored after Indy rested starters but you count the full game. if you are using 2 games you need to use the 30 pts not 10, if not you need to use the 10 pts for half the game like you did for Indy. I love the excuse making, you will not stop at anything to try to make the Jets look bad.
    I think it's more telling how well the colts starters do vs the jest and vice versa. It's called "actually trying to win."

    Playing against the offensive and defensive equivalents of Curtis Painter may be delusionally impressive in a gang green circle jerk, but certainly not to anyone else who's objective.. But yeah, if it were a 30 minute game, you'd have lost the first and won the 2nd against the Colts starters. Too bad for you that they play for 60 minutes.

    2009 the faux cubic zirconia

    But all of this is just deserved blowback for the audacious hypocritical homeristic delusion that the divison winning 08 Fins were less deserving than the 09 stepped-in-**** cubic zirconias. Reality sucks regarding just how bad the jest were and how they could barely beat a bad team let alone a good one that was trying. You brought it on yourself

    Last edited by Vaark; 02-27-2012 at 11:51 AM.






    "geno and idzik have done the impossible: make jets fans wish
    the tanny/sanchez days were here again" > Darksider, Jetnation

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  2. -82
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    actually trying to win they led by 5 midway through the 3rd and we lost a close game in the title game w/ a rookie QB, losing our top RB and a bunch of DBs.

    The bottom line is this- the '08 dolphins and '09 Jets each received some good fortune, both were good enough teams to capitalize on that good fortune but only one proved they belonged in postseason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    actually trying to win they led by 5 midway through the 3rd and we lost a close game in the title game w/ a rookie QB, losing our top RB and a bunch of DBs.

    The bottom line is this- the '08 dolphins and '09 Jets each received some good fortune, both were good enough teams to capitalize on that good fortune but only one proved they belonged in postseason.
    You can cling to your fairy tale that you would have beaten a team in game 15 that was ahead of you and whose starters in 1.5 games outscored your starters in 2 games 46-10 just as I maintain with equal conviction that:
    a) had the 09 Fins team faced Indy and Cinci (already a very dead team walking over their last 6 games) in games 15 and 16, by that egregious quirk of scheduling which the league has now taken measures to avoid recurring, the Fins would have gotten the same undeserved free pass into the playoffs and at the least beat that same miserable Cinci team. Beyond that, considering vs SD it was Kaedig and his 3 misses that won it for you, not a QB who went 13-23, 100yds and 1 int, I'd say we'd have had a reasonably even chance of progressing to the conference game. However, I'll agree that vs Indy, it still would have ended up as the same "no contest."

    b)had the 09 jest faced the equivalent of the 08 Ravens, or the 08 Fins faced the 09 equivalent of the Bengals, you'd be one and done and we'd have been onward to game 2.

    Those scenarios are just as likely as you ever having a chance of beating the 09 colts when their starters were in and actually trying, despite 2 of their 3 best defenders either being on IR or hobbled.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    The dolphins needed the Jets, Ravens, Jaguars and texans to lose plus Miami had to beat Pittsburgh(only the Jags lost)- they needed more help than we needed in 2011 and in 2009 we had to win our last 2 games and we won them. We were in a win and in situation sop NYJ '09 was not like NYJ '11 or Mia '09. We had some realistic chances of teams losing that we needed lose, all lost except tennessee so we were at least close had we won, Miami was not close if they won.

    You ended the season w/ 3 straight losses from teams w/ starters but not one of those teams would make the playoffs and we beat both ten and Hous while you lost to both ten and Houston. You had your chances in 2009 and blew it like we had our chances in 2008 and 2011 and blew it and you had more help in 2008 than we had in 2009, your raod was much easier facing dead team after dead team the last 5-6 weeks.
    You said that Sanchez had the Jets in playoff contention, which is something that Henne never did. That is incorrect. Both the 11 Jets and 09 Dolphins needed a lot of help to make the playoffs. It doesn't matter which teams were more likely to lose since both the Jets and Dolphins didn't win their final games and eliminated themselves.
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  5. -85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaark View Post
    You can cling to your fairy tale that you would have beaten a team in game 15 that was ahead of you and whose starters in 1.5 games outscored your starters in 2 games 46-10 just as I maintain with equal conviction that:
    a) had the 09 Fins team faced Indy and Cinci (already a very dead team walking over their last 6 games) in games 15 and 16, by that egregious quirk of scheduling which the league has now taken measures to avoid recurring, the Fins would have gotten the same undeserved free pass into the playoffs and at the least beat that same miserable Cinci team. Beyond that, considering vs SD it was Kaedig and his 3 misses that won it for you, not a QB who went 13-23, 100yds and 1 int, I'd say we'd have had a reasonably even chance of progressing to the conference game. However, I'll agree that vs Indy, it still would have ended up as the same "no contest."

    b)had the 09 jest faced the equivalent of the 08 Ravens, or the 08 Fins faced the 09 equivalent of the Bengals, you'd be one and done and we'd have been onward to game 2.

    Those scenarios are just as likely as you ever having a chance of beating the 09 colts when their starters were in and actually trying, despite 2 of their 3 best defenders either being on IR or hobbled.
    I have never said we for sure would have beaten Indy, I think the chances are better we lose but we got a break and ran w/ it. A year or 2 earlier Ten got a similar break and was bounced in the WC rd, in 1993 we faced Houston backups and lost in week 18(2 byes that year), in 2004 Buf lost at home to Pitt backups in week 17 w/ the playoffs on the line. We took advantage and ran w/ it much like Miami in 2008.

    The '09 Dolphins faced 3 non playoff bound teams(2 of which the Jets beat) w/ 2 of the games at home and they couldn't win a single game.

    Kaeding had 2 legit misses, the other was from 60 yds. How come Kaeding misses come into play but 2 msises by our K in the title game does not come into play? I love your excuses.

    We face a team better than the '08 Ravens on the road in the div rd and we beat them. Miami wouldn't have beaten the '09 Bengals on the road, that team swept both Pitt and Baltimore(a Baltimore team almost as good as the year before- they lost a pretty good DC though).

    We made the playoffs and won 2 playoff games, that last time Miami won 2 playoff games in a single postseason was 1984.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    I have never said we for sure would have beaten Indy, I think the chances are better we lose but we got a break and ran w/ it. A year or 2 earlier Ten got a similar break and was bounced in the WC rd, in 1993 we faced Houston backups and lost in week 18(2 byes that year), in 2004 Buf lost at home to Pitt backups in week 17 w/ the playoffs on the line. We took advantage and ran w/ it much like Miami in 2008.

    The '09 Dolphins faced 3 non playoff bound teams(2 of which the Jets beat) w/ 2 of the games at home and they couldn't win a single game.

    Kaeding had 2 legit misses, the other was from 60 yds. How come Kaeding misses come into play but 2 msises by our K in the title game does not come into play? I love your excuses.

    We face a team better than the '08 Ravens on the road in the div rd and we beat them. Miami wouldn't have beaten the '09 Bengals on the road, that team swept both Pitt and Baltimore(a Baltimore team almost as good as the year before- they lost a pretty good DC though).

    We made the playoffs and won 2 playoff games, that last time Miami won 2 playoff games in a single postseason was 1984.
    3 missed FGs in a 3 point loss is a little different than 2 missed FGs in a 13 point loss. It was a 57 yard attempt which is only 3 more yards than a FG he made in week 15. He also made a 57 yard FG the year before, so it wasn't like it was an unrealistic attempt.

    I will assume that you are talking about 10 NE being better than 08 BAl because 09 SD wasn't even close. I have always given credit to the Jets for the playoff win over NE. That is only 1 win out of 4 though, and is looking more like it was a fluke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    3 missed FGs in a 3 point loss is a little different than 2 missed FGs in a 13 point loss. It was a 57 yard attempt which is only 3 more yards than a FG he made in week 15. He also made a 57 yard FG the year before, so it wasn't like it was an unrealistic attempt.

    I will assume that you are talking about 10 NE being better than 08 BAl because 09 SD wasn't even close. I have always given credit to the Jets for the playoff win over NE. That is only 1 win out of 4 though, and is looking more like it was a fluke.
    you can say that w/o having watched the games but SD missed 2 FGs(the other was near 60 yds) and how do we know the game plays out differetnly? We went into a prevent up 10 late in the game, if it's a 7 or 4 pt lead do we do that? I don't think so.

    In Indy if Feely hits the first FG we are likely up 20-6 in the 1st half, if he just hits the 2nd one we are up 20-13 and being up a TD vs. being up 4 w/ Indy in great FP was a huge difference.

    '09 SD was every bit as good as '08 Baltimore and you guys got them at home while we had SD on the road w/ a cross Country trip. you guys had to face Joe Flacco in his first postseason game, Leron McLain was their leading rusher- you didn't even have to worry about facing Ray Rice yet. Our game at SD against the hottest team in the league was more difficult than your game at home against Bal.

    ohh so we don't get credit for beating Cincy, SD or Indy I am petitioning the league to add that to all official statistics
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    09 Cinci: started off well and died on the vine: for the season:22nd in pts scored/6 in pts allowed.
    Last 6 games: 3-3, losing to Oakland (5-11), MN (12-4), SD(13-3)
    and beating Browns(5-11), Detroion(2-14) and KC(4-12)
    scoring avg 17.8pts/game over that stretch

    08 Ravens
    11th in scoring, 3rd in pts allowed
    9-2 over last 11 games
    5-1 over last 6 games, beating 3 .500 or better teams and only losing to the eventual SB champions, the Steelers during this string
    went on to win 2 PO games

    Fins drew a team on the rise with above average offense and stifling defense in 08
    Jest drew a dead team walking (including their WR literally) with a better than average defense but worse than average offense

    Considering that in 09 the last time they played, the Fins beat the Jest, and the caliber of Cinci play by the time they drew them, there's no doubt the Fins would have prevailed and moved at least one additional if not two levels up in the POs.

    Ditto, in consideration of how the jest couldn't even close at home against Atlanta, couldn't beat a winning team until they laid down for them over the last 6 games, there's no doubt that the 09 jest would have been pummelled by the 08 version of the Ravens.

    As said, it's the luck of the draw.. NYJ did nothing to earn a bearth in the playoffs, both teams were comparable at 7-7 and there's no reason to think that had the Fins been graced with that charity, they too could have gone deep into the playoffs. It is what it is... and that's a cubic zirconia faux season that's very *asterisk worthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    you can say that w/o having watched the games but SD missed 2 FGs(the other was near 60 yds) and how do we know the game plays out differetnly? We went into a prevent up 10 late in the game, if it's a 7 or 4 pt lead do we do that? I don't think so.

    In Indy if Feely hits the first FG we are likely up 20-6 in the 1st half, if he just hits the 2nd one we are up 20-13 and being up a TD vs. being up 4 w/ Indy in great FP was a huge difference.

    '09 SD was every bit as good as '08 Baltimore and you guys got them at home while we had SD on the road w/ a cross Country trip. you guys had to face Joe Flacco in his first postseason game, Leron McLain was their leading rusher- you didn't even have to worry about facing Ray Rice yet. Our game at SD against the hottest team in the league was more difficult than your game at home against Bal.

    ohh so we don't get credit for beating Cincy, SD or Indy I am petitioning the league to add that to all official statistics



    I watched both games. So missed field goals change the way the game plays out, but only to benefit the Jets?
    Even if you have a 23-13 lead, Manning is still going to score 17 unanswered points to make it 30-23.

    Even if you don't include the 57 yard miss (which was not an unrealistic attempt) SD missed the first easy field goal (37 yards) on their second possession of the game. No one scored until SD scored a TD in the second quarter. It would have been 10-0 SD. The Jets don't score until the 3rd making it 7-3 SD. Right at the end of the 3rd SD turns it over deep on there side of the field. You don't think SD plays that series a little different if it is a 2 possession game at that point? Even with the turnover and score, it would have been 10-10 had SD made the first field goal. The Jets next score is at the 7:17 mark in the 4th making the score 17-7 (17-10 with the field goal). On SD next possession they drive into field goal range, and what do you know, another missed field goal. It would have been 17-13. The Jets tried to run out the clock, but could not. SD gets the ball back and scores what could have been the game winner. I suppose this is the drive that you will claim the Jets went into prevent defense right? Isn't a prevent defense supposed to stop big plays? Why then did SD gain 11 yards, 37 yards, and 19 yards in their first 3 plays of that series?

    09 SD was very overrated. 09 SD only won 3 games against teams with winning records and lost to a Jets team that was let into the playoffs. 08 Bal made it to the AFCC game that year.

    The Jets get credit for all the playoff wins, but the weak competition makes a big difference when you are comparing playoff wins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaark View Post
    09 Cinci: started off well and died on the vine: for the season:22nd in pts scored/6 in pts allowed.
    Last 6 games: 3-3, losing to Oakland (5-11), MN (12-4), SD(13-3)
    and beating Browns(5-11), Detroion(2-14) and KC(4-12)
    scoring avg 17.8pts/game over that stretch

    08 Ravens
    11th in scoring, 3rd in pts allowed
    9-2 over last 11 games
    5-1 over last 6 games, beating 3 .500 or better teams and only losing to the eventual SB champions, the Steelers during this string
    went on to win 2 PO games

    Fins drew a team on the rise with above average offense and stifling defense in 08
    Jest drew a dead team walking (including their WR literally) with a better than average defense but worse than average offense

    Considering that in 09 the last time they played, the Fins beat the Jest, and the caliber of Cinci play by the time they drew them, there's no doubt the Fins would have prevailed and moved at least one additional if not two levels up in the POs.

    Ditto, in consideration of how the jest couldn't even close at home against Atlanta, couldn't beat a winning team until they laid down for them over the last 6 games, there's no doubt that the 09 jest would have been pummelled by the 08 version of the Ravens.

    As said, it's the luck of the draw.. NYJ did nothing to earn a bearth in the playoffs, both teams were comparable at 7-7 and there's no reason to think that had the Fins been graced with that charity, they too could have gone deep into the playoffs. It is what it is... and that's a cubic zirconia faux season that's very *asterisk worthy.

    It's about the body of work throughout the course of a year. They swept Baltimore and Pittsburgh, my guess is they are the only team to do so since realignment in 2002.

    In their last 6 games they lost 4 times- 3 of the losses were to teams that made the div rd(w/ 2 of those being title game teams). They had one bad loss, a close loss to oak.

    Phins drew a team that hadn't won a playoff game since the last time they faced Miami in Miami(2001), w/ a rookie QB who 4 years later only had one good postseason game under his belt, a Bal team w/o Ray Rice to worry about. The D was better b/c they had a better DC but Bal's O was not very good.

    By the way, in 2009 they were 11th in pts scored and remianed 3rd in D yet Cincy swept them.

    who cares that Miami beat the Jets in 2009?

    Miami couldn't even compete at HOME in the playoffs, how were they expected to go on the road against a teamt hat would sweep a similar Bal team a year later?

    We earned our spot more than Miami did w/o having to face Brady and w/ that cake sched in 2008 and again once in postseason we proved we belonged ulike a team that was humiliated at home in the WC rd.

    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    I watched both games. So missed field goals change the way the game plays out, but only to benefit the Jets?
    Even if you have a 23-13 lead, Manning is still going to score 17 unanswered points to make it 30-23.

    Even if you don't include the 57 yard miss (which was not an unrealistic attempt) SD missed the first easy field goal (37 yards) on their second possession of the game. No one scored until SD scored a TD in the second quarter. It would have been 10-0 SD. The Jets don't score until the 3rd making it 7-3 SD. Right at the end of the 3rd SD turns it over deep on there side of the field. You don't think SD plays that series a little different if it is a 2 possession game at that point? Even with the turnover and score, it would have been 10-10 had SD made the first field goal. The Jets next score is at the 7:17 mark in the 4th making the score 17-7 (17-10 with the field goal). On SD next possession they drive into field goal range, and what do you know, another missed field goal. It would have been 17-13. The Jets tried to run out the clock, but could not. SD gets the ball back and scores what could have been the game winner. I suppose this is the drive that you will claim the Jets went into prevent defense right? Isn't a prevent defense supposed to stop big plays? Why then did SD gain 11 yards, 37 yards, and 19 yards in their first 3 plays of that series?

    09 SD was very overrated. 09 SD only won 3 games against teams with winning records and lost to a Jets team that was let into the playoffs. 08 Bal made it to the AFCC game that year.

    The Jets get credit for all the playoff wins, but the weak competition makes a big difference when you are comparing playoff wins.
    I don't know how they change those games? Nobody does but missed kicks are part of the game, they helped us in Cincy and SD and hurt is in Indy.

    How do you know it would have been 10-0>? again, you assume the game plays out exactly the same which is incorrect to do. We have no idea how things change if the Jets are playing from behind early. maybe they pres and turn it over? Maybe they score a TD or a FG in the first half? who knows?

    The Jets had shut down SD's O all game long, up 17-7 late SD goes right down the field for the score- you don't think we play that differently if it's 17-13?

    We didn't face one weak team in postseason, we had 2 good WC teams on the ROAD then faced the 2 hottest teams in the NFL and SB favorites in the div rd beating them both.
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