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Thread: Smoking Bans: Banning Freedom

  1. -11
    NY8123's Avatar
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    So the next time someone lights a butt up and blows smoke in my face I can just exersise my freedom and punch that ****er in the mouth and extinguish my concern.

    I like where this thread is going!
    "I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally" ~ W.C. Fields

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  2. -12
    LouPhinFan's Avatar
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    I think really the big issue here is that smoking isn't a right that affects only the individual excercising that right. It's not gay marriage or voting. It's not gun ownership or religion. Smoking not only adversely affects the smoker, but also those around the smoker.

    Liberatians are hipocrits on this issue IMHO. "Any and all rights are fine as long as they don't hurt other people", isn't that the Libertarian's creed?

    "Except smoking. Smoking is alright with us."
    Insert pithy saying here.

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  3. -13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LouPhinFan View Post
    I think really the big issue here is that smoking isn't a right that affects only the individual excercising that right. It's not gay marriage or voting. It's not gun ownership or religion. Smoking not only adversely affects the smoker, but also those around the smoker.

    Liberatians are hipocrits on this issue IMHO. "Any and all rights are fine as long as they don't hurt other people", isn't that the Libertarian's creed?

    "Except smoking. Smoking is alright with us."
    That's not the issue. Again, I said that there probably should be smoking restrictions where minors are allowed. BUT, there should be a place where consenting adults can smoke inside. So like I said, if you have a bar, or pool-hall that checks id's at the door, and everyone, as a consenting adult, choose to be in a place where smoking is allowed, than that should be their prerogative, and THAT shouldn't be illegal.
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  4. -14
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    Kinda like an Opium Den.

    For smokers.
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  5. -15
    Dolphins9954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob19 View Post
    What ya mean?



    I understand that the majority of the people want to be in smoke-free zones, which is why I think a majority of the restaurants, bars, or what have you, would retain the no-smoking policy, you wouldn't necessarily need it to be law. Times have changed, this isn't the 80's or 90's. More people are aware of the dangers of smoking and second hand smoke, and MOST people would prefer to be in area's where no one smoked, so I think a large majority of the restaurants would carry out the no-smoking policy whether it's law or not.

    But for those select few places, like I mentioned above, where both the wait staff, and clientele, both are aware of, and choose to be in, and work at, a place with inherent dangers, than I don't see why you make it illegal for them to do so. They're all consenting to be in there, despite the risks. If you don't want to be in those type of establishments, it's your right to not be there, but to make it illegal? I don't know that that's how you handle it. I think there's a small niche for indoor smoking places, like pool-halls and such, where indoor smoking is popular and makes sense. All you can do is educate the staff and the customers of the ramifications, and they, as legal adults, can make their own decision from there. Just like there are inherent risks in other fields, like football, construction, police, fire-fighter, other sports, etc. I wouldn't do it, but a waiter who's already a smoker might not mind.

    This is kind of like seat-belt laws to me. Yes, it's very wise to wear seat-belts, but I don't think it should be illegal for you to NOT wear one. It's also very wise to not get involved with dangerous drugs, but I don't think it should be illegal.

    --
    The only place I'd agree with the smoking laws, is places where minors are allowed. So maybe if you have a pool-hall, or bar, where you check id's at the door, and all consent to be in a place where smoking is allowed, then so be it.

    Great post. Agree 100%.





    "Politics is the Art of Looking for Trouble, Finding it Everywhere, Diagnosing it Incorrectly, and Applying the Wrong Remedies"
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  6. -16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LouPhinFan View Post
    I think really the big issue here is that smoking isn't a right that affects only the individual excercising that right. It's not gay marriage or voting. It's not gun ownership or religion. Smoking not only adversely affects the smoker, but also those around the smoker.

    Liberatians are hipocrits on this issue IMHO. "Any and all rights are fine as long as they don't hurt other people", isn't that the Libertarian's creed?

    "Except smoking. Smoking is alright with us."

    Libertarians aren't calling for people to be forced to inhale second hand smoke. What we want is the power for people to make up their own minds on this and not the government. Just like Rob19 is saying, the majority of places will offer smoke-free environments especailly where kids are concerned. But places where it's adult only like bars, night clubs and even restaurants. That decision should be left to the property owner.
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  7. -17
    Locke's Avatar
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    OK, so it isn't right to make it illegal to partake in an activity that actively harms those around you. Where does it end? Should people have the freedom to have sex with children? I mean, there goes our freedom to have sexual relations with whoever we want. Hell, then why is murder even illegal? So much for our freedom to do whatever we want.

    Sometimes I wonder if completely anarchy is desired. The entirety of my school career has been spent in human behavior. What you guys are advocating is a system based on the idea that humans are intrinsically good and will take the welfare of others into effect when making their decisions. I can guarantee you that this isn't the case. A single person is well-meaning and tries to do right by others. A group of people is stupid, impulsive, and dangerous. You want to see what happens to a society without rules, look at some aboriginese tribes in Africa pre-colonization. Members of they community took care of each other as well as possible, but that didn't stop rivals for mates, or rival hunters from other tribes being brutally murdered because they were in the way. Rules have to exist, period.

    There is a need for some rules. I love me some beer. I'm a beer snob and I thoroughly enjoy drinking as many types of beer as possible. I would love the freedom to walk down the street and drink that beer while shopping. Hell, if I have to put up with the wifey trying on 500 dresses, I should be allowed to at least be buzzed while doing so. My enjoyment of that particular activity doesn't change the fact that I understand why I'm not allowed to do so.

    I'm assuming you all who are advocating this are smokers. That makes me think you can't be objective. Yes, it sucks having to leave your table and go outside to have a quick cigarette. It would suck worse for that poor girl who found out she has pre-cancerous cells and hasn't smoked a cigarette her entire life, which is a true story involving a close personal friend of mine. They caught it early and they feel like they can treat it before it becomes full-blown cancer, but it turns out because she hung out with smokers the better part of the last 10 years, while actively inhaling their secondhand smoke, she is now at high risk for lung cancer. Yes, she put herself in that position by hanging out with smokers. But, what about some random businessman who has to meet in restaurants as part of his job? Is it fair that he is now at a higher risk of cancer because a few people don't like that they have to walk outside to smoke?

    My stance on this will never change. Smoking is one of the worst things humans do. If you want to do it, then by all means. You have the right to kill yourself if you want. You do NOT have the right to endanger those around you, right or not. If even one single person doesn't get sick because of this law, it is a resounding success in my book...

    If I could take your pain and frame it, and hang it on my wall,
    maybe you would never have to hurt again...

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  8. -18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    OK, so it isn't right to make it illegal to partake in an activity that actively harms those around you. Where does it end? Should people have the freedom to have sex with children? I mean, there goes our freedom to have sexual relations with whoever we want. Hell, then why is murder even illegal? So much for our freedom to do whatever we want.
    wow. i don't even..

    Dude your talking crazy talk. How is any of that comparable to having a bar or pool hall that only lets consenting adults in with the knowledge that smoking is allowed in THIS particular establishment. I agree that there should be restrictions in places that allow minors inside, but for those places who decide to let consenting adults in with the knowledge that smoking is allowed inside, that shouldn't be illegal. There's a small niche for that, and although unhealthy, it shouldn't be a criminal issue, but rather a health issue.

    Are we capable of making concessions on this forum or just getting further entrenched in the position we first took?
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  9. -19
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    Furthermore, If I would happen to own a place like that, I'd provide & encourage my staff to wear something like this.

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  10. -20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    I'm assuming you all who are advocating this are smokers. That makes me think you can't be objective.
    You assume wrong. I wouldn't like to work, eat, or be in a place that allows cigarette smoke, so I wouldn't go in. & I think if you allow children into your establishment, I don't think it should be allowed. I do think some places should have the right to allow it though, and consenting adults should have the right to work and go there if they so choose.

    I only smoke herb. It's not radioactive so I'm not getting any cancer from it.
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