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Thread: Greenberg says Manning to SEA, Edwards says MIA

  1. -31
    dolfan22's Avatar
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    Well seeing how Greenberg was adamant that one of the reasons the Yets would win big this year was that he knew buttfumble would take the big step up and be an elite QB this year , we can feel good when makes predictions against good things happening for Miami. It's a runaway train .... hard to stop .... 18 in aqua and orange seems very plausible imo.
    17 and 0 ,never before , never since
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  2. -32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    I disagree, manning had much more offensive talent and the D's were comparable in postseason. Add in more than half of Manning's games came in domes and he has had a big edge.
    Brady was the benefactor of some very good defensive teams whereas Indy was lost on D without Bob Sanders. It's no coincidence that the Pats have not had the same post season success over the last several years due to the loss of key defensive guys and inability to rebuild it.
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  3. -33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDog 88 View Post
    Brady was the benefactor of some very good defensive teams whereas Indy was lost on D without Bob Sanders. It's no coincidence that the Pats have not had the same post season success over the last several years due to the loss of key defensive guys and inability to rebuild it.
    Last I checked the Pats were just in the SB and those Pats Ds were not great defenses and the Colts Ds were very underrated. The Colts Ds have allowed less postseason pts than the supposed great NE D's. Indy has lost more b/c of the play of the QB in January than the defense.
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  4. -34
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Last I checked the Pats were just in the SB and those Pats Ds were not great defenses and the Colts Ds were very underrated. The Colts Ds have allowed less postseason pts than the supposed great NE D's. Indy has lost more b/c of the play of the QB in January than the defense.
    NE defenses were consistently tp 10 when they won Super Bowls. They went to this years Super Bowl by only beating 1 team with a winning record and that was the Ravens in the AFC Championship.

    Manning had subpar playoff games, I recall one against the Jets a couple of years ago, but the defenses were not under rated. They struggled big time against the run even with Bob Sanders and we're no where near as good as the Patriots. You may want to review the historical data.
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  5. -35
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Last I checked the Pats were just in the SB and those Pats Ds were not great defenses and the Colts Ds were very underrated. The Colts Ds have allowed less postseason pts than the supposed great NE D's. Indy has lost more b/c of the play of the QB in January than the defense.
    Just to put into perspective, so you can get a handle on what others are seeing:

    You claim Peyton's defense carried him; you claim the 2x SB MVP, Eli Manning's defense carried him
    BUT
    you vehemently and continually deny that buttfumble's defense carried him? How can that be?

    At least that's the way it looks.


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  6. -36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDog 88 View Post
    NE defenses were consistently tp 10 when they won Super Bowls. They went to this years Super Bowl by only beating 1 team with a winning record and that was the Ravens in the AFC Championship.

    Manning had subpar playoff games, I recall one against the Jets a couple of years ago, but the defenses were not under rated. They struggled big time against the run even with Bob Sanders and we're no where near as good as the Patriots. You may want to review the historical data.
    If you are using rankings he went to the SB w/ the 31st ranked defense this year.

    Peyton rarely has played like his regular season self in postseason games and his D has never blown a late lead in a playoff game like Brady's Ds have done time after time after time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaark View Post
    Just to put into perspective, so you can get a handle on what others are seeing:

    You claim Peyton's defense carried him; you claim the 2x SB MVP, Eli Manning's defense carried him
    BUT
    you vehemently and continually deny that buttfumble's defense carried him? How can that be?

    At least that's the way it looks.
    Don't confuse my defense of buttfumble w/ putting him on a level w/ Manning. They are different players, Peyton is an all time great, the standards for him are much higher than for buttfumble and I NEVER said buttfumble's Ds weren't the main reason he had so much team success BUT even w/ the best Ds you still need quality QB play ad we got that.

    I didn't say Eli's D carried him this year but the D was great and their contribution is getting lost in the Eli media hype.

    Peyton's D was excellent in their SB run, a run where Peyton threw 3 TDs and 7 INTs and had one good half all postseason long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    If you are using rankings he went to the SB w/ the 31st ranked defense this year.

    Peyton rarely has played like his regular season self in postseason games and his D has never blown a late lead in a playoff game like Brady's Ds have done time after time after time.
    True but the scoring defense was 14 and the defense actually played better in the playoffs.

    In 2003 and 2004, NE was 1st and 6th in point differential and 1st and 2nd in scoring defense.
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  8. -38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post

    In 2007 the Pats beat playoff bound teams by an average of almost 20 PPG, in 2008 going 2-4 against playoff bound teams they lost by an average of almost 18 PPG. They were undefeated in 2007 then won 10 games w/ Cassell starting against a much easier sched- that is a HUGE dropoff.
    That 2007 team was embarrassed by Spygate and set out to prove something. They throttled playoff SD, Dal, Pitt and beat Washington 52-7. They had close wins against the Colts (4 points) and Giants (3 points)

    Why not compare 08 and 09?

    You can talk about playoff bound, but as you know sometimes good teams miss the playoffs and sometimes bad teams make the playoffs. To be fair, I look at the win / loss record of each team.

    In 08 without Brady the Pats won 11 games and beat 4 teams that were 8-8 or better. Those teams were:

    9-7 Jets
    9-7 Cardinals (NFC Champs)
    8-8 Broncos
    11-5 Dolphins

    They lost 5 to:

    8-8 SD
    9-7 NYJ
    11-5 Mia
    12-4 Indy
    12-4 Pitt (Super Bowl Champs)

    In 09 with Brady the Pats won 10 games and beat 4 teams that were 8-8 or better. Those teams were:

    Falcons 9-7
    Jets 9-7
    Ravens 9-7
    Titans 8-8

    They lost 6 to:

    7-9 Mia
    8-8 Den
    9-7 NYJ
    9-7 Hou
    13-3 NO (Super Bowl Champs)
    14-2 Indy

    Looks like very similar seasons with and without Brady. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brady isn't important to the Pats. I'm just saying he is not as important to the Pats as Manning is to the Colts.
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  9. -39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDog 88 View Post
    True but the scoring defense was 14 and the defense actually played better in the playoffs.

    In 2003 and 2004, NE was 1st and 6th in point differential and 1st and 2nd in scoring defense.
    2001 was the only postseason where the pats D played really well throughout and they nearly blew a historic lead in the 4th qtr of the SB becoming the first D to blow a 14 pt 4th qtr lead.

    As good as NE was in 2001, the Colts D's have played better in postseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    That 2007 team was embarrassed by Spygate and set out to prove something. They throttled playoff SD, Dal, Pitt and beat Washington 52-7. They had close wins against the Colts (4 points) and Giants (3 points)

    Why not compare 08 and 09?

    You can talk about playoff bound, but as you know sometimes good teams miss the playoffs and sometimes bad teams make the playoffs. To be fair, I look at the win / loss record of each team.

    In 08 without Brady the Pats won 11 games and beat 4 teams that were 8-8 or better. Those teams were:

    9-7 Jets
    9-7 Cardinals (NFC Champs)
    8-8 Broncos
    11-5 Dolphins

    They lost 5 to:

    8-8 SD
    9-7 NYJ
    11-5 Mia
    12-4 Indy
    12-4 Pitt (Super Bowl Champs)

    In 09 with Brady the Pats won 10 games and beat 4 teams that were 8-8 or better. Those teams were:

    Falcons 9-7
    Jets 9-7
    Ravens 9-7
    Titans 8-8

    They lost 6 to:

    7-9 Mia
    8-8 Den
    9-7 NYJ
    9-7 Hou
    13-3 NO (Super Bowl Champs)
    14-2 Indy

    Looks like very similar seasons with and without Brady. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Brady isn't important to the Pats. I'm just saying he is not as important to the Pats as Manning is to the Colts.
    In '08 the Jets were not very good despite the record.
    In '08 Ari made the playoffs but in 3 NE trips they lost by an average score of Ari 21 Opps 50 and in the NE game Ari barely played their starters-
    In '08 NE beat 2 playoff teams, Ari and one of the worst playoff teams of the past decade the Miami Dolphins. In 2009 they beat a team that reached the AFC Championship Game and another team that reached the div rd.

    NE was MUCH better in 2009 despite one less win.

    Remember, as great as people think those defenses were the Pats were 5-11 in 2000 w/o Brady and started 0-2 in 2001 including a loss to the lowly Bengals. They magically won 11 of 14 when Brady became the starter. Please look up BB's record w/ and w/o Brady.
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  10. -40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    It's definitely Brady. In recent years Brady has been more Manning like in postseason but he still has the edge. Manning was getting close, if he wouldn't have thrown away the SB 2 years ago and would have staye dhealthy he could have caught and maybe passed Brady but Brady is easily the best of this generation. it sucks to say that since we have seen him beat both our teams and dominate our division but to me it's not that close.
    Brady needed help to reach and win all his superbowls, Payton won his superbowl without much of a defense, or running game.

    Brady went down a few years ago, the great Patriot machine continued to win 11 games, Payton goes down, the Colts are now in position to get Luck with the #1 pick after having the worst season they have had since.....well, since Payton got there.
    My personal Draft:

    1st Round: Taylor Lewan(T)

    2nd Round: Gabe Jackson(G)

    3rd Round: C. J. Fiedorowicz(TE)

    4th Round: Christian Jones (ILB)

    5th Round: Daniel McCullers(DT)

    6th Round: Marqueston Huff(S/CB)

    7th Round:
    Jay Prosch(FB)


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