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Thread: 2008-2011 Dolphins drafts...

  1. -1
    Wildbill3's Avatar
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    Rebel AllianceSuperman logoXbox LogoPlaystation LogoSnakes!

    2008-2011 Dolphins drafts...

    Ok I got to thinking about Sean Smith's lack of interceptions and decided for ****s and giggles to review the parcels then ireland draft era. I remember briefly someone saying Jake was the lone survivor of the 2008 draft, a draft that by all rights was completely a parcels' draft. Then 2009 etc, and i'm wondering if 2009 is going to look like the 2008 next year. Is is possible that vonte is the lone survivor of the 2009 draft? How horrendous has our drafting been just in the last 4 years? Has it gotten better?
    2008 draft. (9 picks)

    Jake Long


    2009 draft (9 picks)

    Vontae Davis

    Sean Smith

    Brian Hartline

    Chris Clemons

    Andrew Gardner


    2010 draft (8 picks)


    Jared Odrick

    Koa Misi

    John Jerry

    Nolan Carroll

    Reshad Jones

    Austin Spitler


    2011 draft (6 picks)


    Mike Pouncey

    Daniel Thomas

    Edmond Gates

    Charles Clay

    Jimmy Wilson


     

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  2. -2
    JCane's Avatar
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    I've said all along that it's very difficult to judge Jeff Ireland because of Bill Parcells.

    Bill Parcells always has and always will do it his way. it doesn't matter what expert input Ireland may have had, Parcells ultimately did what he wanted to do in the draft.

    Ireland may not have liked Koa Misi or Austin Spitler and had possibly pinned better targets than those two...but Parcells wouldn't hear it. Didn't matter at all.

    I was very reserved in criticisms of Ireland because of this. Now, under Ireland, the draft classes seem to be far better than they were with the combo of Parcells and Ireland.

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  3. -3
    Ricky4Life's Avatar
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    I like Ireland, everyone wanted to pin everything on Jeff instead of looking at the facts. I mean Jeff had to beg Tuna to draft Ware in Dallas.
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    Rookie

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    I dont think it all that bad. And i think things are getting better!
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    Well, it's definitely hard to judge at this point. I'd say the've hit on all first rounders to varying degrees. Jake Long, if he stays healthy, could be a Hall of Famer. No argument there. Michael Pouncey looks like he could be a perennial pro bowler. Vontae Davis has been a bit disappointing, but still is an above average corner who should get better. Jared Odrick is emerging and shows some pass rush. I think the trade down that year hurt the draft, though, as Koa Misi is average at best. A lot of other players need to step up. Brian Hartline is an average starter who could be a better fit in Joe Philibin's offense. Both the safeties Chris Clemens and Reshad Jones are in make or break years IMO. Sean Smith is also in a make or break year and has been somewhat of a disappointment. The Dolphins have hit big on several undrafted free agents and that needs to be factored in. Guys like Bess and Carpenter have been very good for the Dolphins.
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  6. -6
    Awsi Dooger's Avatar
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    I don't buy the clean separation of Parcells' picks and Ireland's picks. Too cute. Too convenient. It's like something we'd mock from an opposing team, particularly a rival, but since it's ours it's gospel.

    For one thing, Parcells understandably claimed the flops as his. The guy was all but out the door. His reputation was hardly in the balance, at 70. He knew Sparano was doomed. To avoid a complete wipeout of his final NFL venture, no kidding he'll support his hand carried buddy Jeff Ireland and accept the punches.

    In particular, I get a kick out of assertions that Parcells admitted he blew the choices. Or that Ireland admitted that Parcells took names off his board. I've seen it phrased that way here, and on other Dolphin sites. I admit that I had sex with 25 cheerleaders yesterday. It's a claim, nothing more. The word admit is laughably abused and misused on message boards.

    One of the reasons I'm skeptical is the 2011 draft wasn't noticeably different, if at all. Lots of strange and seemingly scattergun picks. Then the apparent lurch toward Kyle Orton at obscene rate.

    Now, the 2012 draft stands apart. Evidence of a helping hand, a wise suggestive guide broken away from a smart and recently successful franchise.

    As Parcells has famously pointed out, you are what you are. IMO, Jeff Ireland is what he's always been...nothing remarkable. Joe Philbin helps considerably with the averaging.
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    ckparrothead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger View Post
    I don't buy the clean separation of Parcells' picks and Ireland's picks. Too cute. Too convenient. It's like something we'd mock from an opposing team, particularly a rival, but since it's ours it's gospel.

    For one thing, Parcells understandably claimed the flops as his. The guy was all but out the door. His reputation was hardly in the balance, at 70. He knew Sparano was doomed. To avoid a complete wipeout of his final NFL venture, no kidding he'll support his hand carried buddy Jeff Ireland and accept the punches.

    In particular, I get a kick out of assertions that Parcells admitted he blew the choices. Or that Ireland admitted that Parcells took names off his board. I've seen it phrased that way here, and on other Dolphin sites. I admit that I had sex with 25 cheerleaders yesterday. It's a claim, nothing more. The word admit is laughably abused and misused on message boards.

    One of the reasons I'm skeptical is the 2011 draft wasn't noticeably different, if at all. Lots of strange and seemingly scattergun picks. Then the apparent lurch toward Kyle Orton at obscene rate.

    Now, the 2012 draft stands apart. Evidence of a helping hand, a wise suggestive guide broken away from a smart and recently successful franchise.

    As Parcells has famously pointed out, you are what you are. IMO, Jeff Ireland is what he's always been...nothing remarkable. Joe Philbin helps considerably with the averaging.
    Couldn't agree more. There was a noticeable change in drafting when Joe Philbin, Mike Sherman and Kevin Coyle all came on board...but not really a noticeable change when Bill Parcells supposedly left.

    For what it's worth, and this actually makes sense to me, I hear that Bill Parcells mostly functioned with veto power, especially over high profile picks and acquisitions. However, he did have his own pet projects that he asked for, and the way it's been intimated is that he would say he wants a guy and then it was up to Ireland to figure out where to draft him or what price to pay him. Ireland was supposedly given full autonomy over the UDFAs, Parcells wasn't about to veto any of those guys.

    The reason I believe this is I know that was Parcells' pattern in other spots as well, including Dallas. I remember reading a story about how Parcells would have his own "pet cats"...guys he took a shine to in the personnel acquisition process and he'd insist they join the team. But as I understand it, this didn't happen all that often in Miami, and happened less and less as we went from 2008 to 2009 to 2010.

    I agree with you that it's entirely too neat and convenient to just slough all the bad choices onto Parcells and credit Ireland with the good choices. The Pat White thing, I actually believe that one. Jeff Ireland loved Isaiah Stanback, really had very high hopes for him...but he had no illusions of trying to make him a quarterback. And all during that time period, you heard from Parcells and the coaching staff all this stuff about the only way the wildcat can continue to exist is if it's evolved to where passing is more of a threat. You never really heard that from Ireland. He tended to be silent.

    I know for a fact Bill Parcells made the final call on Jake Long versus Matt Ryan, and kept himself up late at night on that one. However, it might surprise people to know that Parcells' history suggests HE was the one leaning toward Matt Ryan, where Jeff Ireland was 100% sold on Jake Long as the right choice and eventually convinced Parcells that it was the right call. When Sean Payton took over the Saints, he asked Parcells for advice. The very first piece of advice Parcells gave him was to get your quarterback right away. That's a fact. That's a matter of record. It's no coincidence that after Parcells left, he "admitted" (I know you dislike the word but it's appropriate) that Matt Ryan may have been the right call after all. Jeff Ireland could have let that one lie easily, it would have been forgotten within minutes. He didn't. He jumped up in front of the cameras and said Jake Long was absolutely the right call and he'd do it again 10 times out of 10, Long has gone to three straight Pro Bowls, he's an All Pro, etc. It harkened back to when the Dolphins originally took Long and Ireland said that he'd had him as the #1 player on his 2008 draft board for well over a year.

    Either way, the way the process has been described to me seems like 90% Jeff Ireland, even while Parcells was there. Parcells gave directions and had Ireland figure out how the rubber meets the road (which is what I'm told happened on the Marshall deal), and every now and then Parcells would play at being a personnel evaluator by falling in love with a player or two and asking Ireland to make sure they find their way on the roster. That is NOT as big a deal as people make of it. I guess I have a unique take on that being on an asset management team. A portfolio manager asks you for some names in the industries you cover, yeah he may veto your favorite name because of a directional issue, but you're still the one supplying the other three names and they're still your companies and if they suck then you're responsible because there were 50 other names you could've supplied but you didn't.
    Twitter: @ckparrot
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    ChambersWI's Avatar
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    as I've gotten more engulfed into the drafting world, the more I've come to accept and believe that it's not just the GM who makes a good draft, hell it's not the GM and the coach; it's the GM the coach, and the coordinators all working together with a vision. In hindsight, I do not believe for a second that Tony Sparano, Paul Pasqualoni, or Dan Henning really have a clear vision on what type of players. I don't really know about Daboll (though I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say he really wanted Daniel Thomas), and I know Nolam wanted Koa Misi and Reshard Jones.

    When the Draft Winds with a list of who we had worked out came out, I could tell right away what kind of players we were looking for on both offense and defense.
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    phintim's Avatar
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    Your observation is noted CK however would you consider that Tony S then was not part of this process also I believe last year part of his contract extentision was that a clause be included in his contract that he wanted more athority in player personel. Or did I imagine that? Pouncy in the first round certainly had the smell of Sporano to me and that Dallas reclamation project at right tackle we had last year. Until this year our drafts were almost predictable to a point. I know you did not like the DT pick so much last year but with the hole we created at running back going into the draft, and DT being about the last safe running back left on the board at the time based on size etc you could see it coming. IMO at least up through last year it appeared we created holes on the team by releasing veterans and expected the draft to fill them leaving a very small margin of error if that draft pick failed.
    we certainly had holes this year but in a couple of cases it looks like we might be filling a need a year early which I find much more ecouraging. Like I keep saying while I certainly do not evaluate the drafts like you and have been following the phins drafts for many years and Ireland has stacked up with the best we have had IMO over those years. Sure there may be better ones out there but they have not been in Miami. Actually prior to my time when we were winning super bowls we had a pretty good staff back in the 70's and many of them went from Miami to the Skins who then went on to win a couple of Super Bowls.
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  10. -10
    dr.jake's Avatar
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    for a team that has consistently missed the playoffs and thereby earned high draft picks you have to say our selections are very very underwhelming.
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