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Thread: 2008-2011 Dolphins drafts...

  1. -11
    phintim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.jake View Post
    for a team that has consistently missed the playoffs and thereby earned high draft picks you have to say our selections are very very underwhelming.
    If you thnik they are underwelming then the past 20 years before Ireland just were downight bad. Richmond Webb top 10 pick, Jason Taylor 3rd round and really did not show up until end of his second to third year, Zach Thomas 5th round instant starter, Kieth Simm 2nd round took about 2 years to show up, OJ McDuffie 1st round punt returner 1st year did not catch a pass. Thats about it going back a long way
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  2. -12
    where's th'fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger View Post
    I don't buy the clean separation of Parcells' picks and Ireland's picks. Too cute. Too convenient. It's like something we'd mock from an opposing team, particularly a rival, but since it's ours it's gospel.

    For one thing, Parcells understandably claimed the flops as his. The guy was all but out the door. His reputation was hardly in the balance, at 70. He knew Sparano was doomed. To avoid a complete wipeout of his final NFL venture, no kidding he'll support his hand carried buddy Jeff Ireland and accept the punches.

    In particular, I get a kick out of assertions that Parcells admitted he blew the choices. Or that Ireland admitted that Parcells took names off his board. I've seen it phrased that way here, and on other Dolphin sites. I admit that I had sex with 25 cheerleaders yesterday. It's a claim, nothing more. The word admit is laughably abused and misused on message boards.

    One of the reasons I'm skeptical is the 2011 draft wasn't noticeably different, if at all. Lots of strange and seemingly scattergun picks. Then the apparent lurch toward Kyle Orton at obscene rate.

    Now, the 2012 draft stands apart. Evidence of a helping hand, a wise suggestive guide broken away from a smart and recently successful franchise.

    As Parcells has famously pointed out, you are what you are. IMO, Jeff Ireland is what he's always been...nothing remarkable. Joe Philbin helps considerably with the averaging.
    Does it even matter? If from this year on our drafts start producing players, then Ireland should stay right where he is and get due credit for it.
    Why so gloomy?
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  3. -13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    Couldn't agree more. There was a noticeable change in drafting when Joe Philbin, Mike Sherman and Kevin Coyle all came on board...but not really a noticeable change when Bill Parcells supposedly left.

    For what it's worth, and this actually makes sense to me, I hear that Bill Parcells mostly functioned with veto power, especially over high profile picks and acquisitions. However, he did have his own pet projects that he asked for, and the way it's been intimated is that he would say he wants a guy and then it was up to Ireland to figure out where to draft him or what price to pay him. Ireland was supposedly given full autonomy over the UDFAs, Parcells wasn't about to veto any of those guys.

    The reason I believe this is I know that was Parcells' pattern in other spots as well, including Dallas. I remember reading a story about how Parcells would have his own "pet cats"...guys he took a shine to in the personnel acquisition process and he'd insist they join the team. But as I understand it, this didn't happen all that often in Miami, and happened less and less as we went from 2008 to 2009 to 2010.

    I agree with you that it's entirely too neat and convenient to just slough all the bad choices onto Parcells and credit Ireland with the good choices. The Pat White thing, I actually believe that one. Jeff Ireland loved Isaiah Stanback, really had very high hopes for him...but he had no illusions of trying to make him a quarterback. And all during that time period, you heard from Parcells and the coaching staff all this stuff about the only way the wildcat can continue to exist is if it's evolved to where passing is more of a threat. You never really heard that from Ireland. He tended to be silent.

    I know for a fact Bill Parcells made the final call on Jake Long versus Matt Ryan, and kept himself up late at night on that one. However, it might surprise people to know that Parcells' history suggests HE was the one leaning toward Matt Ryan, where Jeff Ireland was 100% sold on Jake Long as the right choice and eventually convinced Parcells that it was the right call. When Sean Payton took over the Saints, he asked Parcells for advice. The very first piece of advice Parcells gave him was to get your quarterback right away. That's a fact. That's a matter of record. It's no coincidence that after Parcells left, he "admitted" (I know you dislike the word but it's appropriate) that Matt Ryan may have been the right call after all. Jeff Ireland could have let that one lie easily, it would have been forgotten within minutes. He didn't. He jumped up in front of the cameras and said Jake Long was absolutely the right call and he'd do it again 10 times out of 10, Long has gone to three straight Pro Bowls, he's an All Pro, etc. It harkened back to when the Dolphins originally took Long and Ireland said that he'd had him as the #1 player on his 2008 draft board for well over a year.

    Either way, the way the process has been described to me seems like 90% Jeff Ireland, even while Parcells was there. Parcells gave directions and had Ireland figure out how the rubber meets the road (which is what I'm told happened on the Marshall deal), and every now and then Parcells would play at being a personnel evaluator by falling in love with a player or two and asking Ireland to make sure they find their way on the roster. That is NOT as big a deal as people make of it. I guess I have a unique take on that being on an asset management team. A portfolio manager asks you for some names in the industries you cover, yeah he may veto your favorite name because of a directional issue, but you're still the one supplying the other three names and they're still your companies and if they suck then you're responsible because there were 50 other names you could've supplied but you didn't.

    This all may be true, but didn't Ireland draft the type of football players that the whole organization was trying to build? They wanted big, tough, strong guys and a team that was built around defense and a strong running game. I really think Ireland was influenced by the coaching staff, especially Tony Sporano, as to the type of players he was trying to obtain. Now, with the switch in philosophy and coaches (Joe Philbin) Ireland drafted players that fit better with the new system and today's NFL and therefor looks to have had a much better draft than in past seasons.
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    Just a Dolphins Fan

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