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Thread: Affordable Care Act upheld.

  1. -41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    Thinking about it more, anything Romney has to say on the topic of Obamacare is easily countered with his Romneycare mandate. I don't think, in the end, this will have much sway one way or another. All the outrage was used up when it first passed. At this point, we won't even be talking about this anymore in 30 days...
    You are funny. You obviously support Obama. Even you have to realize that he isn't up to the job and doesn't deserve reelection.
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  3. -43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jared81 View Post
    You are funny. You obviously support Obama. Even you have to realize that he isn't up to the job and doesn't deserve reelection.
    Obviously I do, as I trust Romney about as far as I can toss him. But if there was a strong third party candidate, I'd probably vote for them. Since all we have is Gary Johnson, my vote defaults to Obama.

    I am simply stating facts with that post you quoted. It's not blind support of Obama, it's simple fact. The Martin-Zimmerman thing was the hot topic of the month a few weeks ago. That thread went to 50 pages or something. 9954 posts something new in regards to the case, and now it's already half-way down the page. It's the exact same thing. Fox News and Limbaugh will harp on it incessantly leading up to the election, but it's not going to have the effect it would have had it just passed through Congress....

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  4. -44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jared81 View Post
    You are funny. You obviously support Obama. Even you have to realize that he isn't up to the job and doesn't deserve reelection.
    Whoa! Wait a second now....

    You dont support Obama? Wow, just shocking development. Just...damn. I think everyone can safely say they did not see that coming.

    ......what that has to do with the ACA is beyond me, but apparently its of the utmost importance to point out peoples upcoming or previous political votes so we can safely divide the forum in every thread. Because, as you know, there is such a vast difference between the 2 candidates that its important to know exactly where one person stands and another person doesnt. Now if youll excuse me, im going to be busy hanging my Romney pro-gay marriage hot pink 2002 flyers.....err wait, my pro-gay marriage 2012 Obama flyers.
    "I'm not here to be a distraction," Pouncey said.
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  5. -45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphins9954 View Post
    That was in 2011. The new CBO projections have it costing over 800 billion more than expected because of fuzzy numbers by the Dems and Obama.




    http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/1175831
    The actual estimate that the propaganda you quoted used is here:

    http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/c...0Estimates.pdf

    Here are the key parts that the author left out:

    CBO and JCT now estimate that the insurance coverage provisions of the ACA will have a net cost of just under $1.1 trillion over the 2012–2021 period—about $50 billion less than the agencies’ March 2011 estimate for that 10-year period
    (see Table 1, following the text).

    CBO and JCT have previously estimated that the ACA will, on net, reduce budget deficits over the 2012–2021 period; that estimate of the overall budgetary impact of the ACA has not been updated.

    So the 2011 cost estimate was $50 Billion higher than the 2012 estimate but showed a $200 Billion deficit reduction when the overall effect was look at. The 2012 estimate did not recheck this, which is why I used the 2011 estimate. The reason the propaganda you quoted mentioned none of this should be obvious.

    **edit** yes both 2011 and 2012 estimates were 100s of billions higher than Obama's initial estimate. I'm not arguing that. He used way too optimistic forecasts on the economy.
    Last edited by Two Tacos; 06-29-2012 at 12:27 AM. Reason: added thought



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    Quote Originally Posted by LANGER72 View Post
    It seems the AMA sold out the doctors. The only way the doctors can continue to make the money they are making now is to either make a deal with the devil(they did through the AMA) or hope that some form of private medicine remains for the more affluent...or to provide the extra care that will be needed over and above the basic wellness care that the Obama plan will be watered down to in less than 10 years. To provide the same care that we have today with private insurance and include another 30 million patients while holding or reducing the prices...I just can't see how it is possible.
    Care to explain it to me?
    How will medical care be watered down? Doctors and their medical care will be just fine. They make enough money as it is and a little less won't hurt them if they're doctors for the right reasons. I can say that because my wife is a D.O. (doctor of osteopathic medicine). If she was going into the medical field because of the money she would have stayed as pharmacist as she has a double degree in that field (PharmD, MPH). She became a medical doctor because she wants to help people in a direct manner instead of sitting behind a counter dispensing prescriptions. And as a doctor she is extremely pleased to see everyone now have access to health care despite the bottom line ($$$).
    Last edited by Funky Fin; 06-29-2012 at 08:48 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Tacos View Post
    The actual estimate that the propaganda you quoted used is here:

    http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/c...0Estimates.pdf

    Here are the key parts that the author left out:







    So the 2011 cost estimate was $50 Billion higher than the 2012 estimate but showed a $200 Billion deficit reduction when the overall effect was look at. The 2012 estimate did not recheck this, which is why I used the 2011 estimate. The reason the propaganda you quoted mentioned none of this should be obvious.

    **edit** yes both 2011 and 2012 estimates were 100s of billions higher than Obama's initial estimate. I'm not arguing that. He used way too optimistic forecasts on the economy.
    Like everything the government tells us, it will cost a lot more than what we were told. And if by a miracle we do have a savings. Do you really think the government will save that money????

    One thing both sources agree on is that it will cost more. How much more is debatable. But I think it's the safest bet in the world that it will be significantly higher. Just like Romneycare this bill will do nothing about the rising costs of healthcare. Which makes the 10 year projection nothing but a guessing game. And like all 10 year projections by the government. They almost never turn out to be true.
    Last edited by Dolphins9954; 06-29-2012 at 09:03 AM.





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  8. -48
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    This provision will solve nothing long term, even in Canada where the perception that health care is free (very wrong perception) they have the same problems the US is having. I work with a guy from Canada and the health care isn't in any better situation there than it is here, he says they just get there money from someplace else. All this bill does is pass on the higher profits and higher rates to the US citizen, doctors routinely over prescribe medication, they routinely over prescribe treatments and checkups, this bill just makes the healthcare business even more profitable for the next 50 years.

    If you want a sweeping change with unprecedented reform, pass an amendment to the US Constitution that all government budgets need to be balanced. That would force every sector of American society to have to sacrifice enough to do what is necessary to dig out of this hole we have created for ourselves, until then you are putting a patch on something that is unpatchable.
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    ObamaCare has been upheld. But whether you are horrified, elated, or indifferent, one fact remains. The cost of health care just keeps on rising. In fact, medical care now represents nearly 20% of total US GDP.

    Health care spending is so far out of control that not only individuals and families, but the entire economy is buckling under the strain. General Motors spends so much money for its employees’ health care that Warren Buffet has called the corporation “a health and benefits company with an auto company attached.” Each year, General Motors, like Ford and other U.S. automakers, pays more than $1,500 in health care costs for every car they make. Japan’s Honda pays only $150.

    The chairman and CEO of Starbucks, Howard Schultz, says that his company spends more money on insurance for its employees than it spends on coffee.

    It hasn’t always been like this. We now spend more than $2.5 trillion annually on medical care. But as recently as 1950, Americans spent only about $8.4 billion ($70 billion in today’s dollars). The increase has been mind-boggling. After adjusting for inflation, we now spend as much on health care every ten days as we did in the entire year of 1950...


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...#ixzz1zBlx5Q15
    A good op-ed on the subject of healthcare, not necessarily the ACA.
    Insert pithy saying here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphins9954 View Post
    Like everything the government tells us, it will cost a lot more than what we were told. And if by a miracle we do have a savings. Do you really think the government will save that money????

    One thing both sources agree on is that it will cost more. How much more is debatable. But I think it's the safest bet in the world that it will be significantly higher. Just like Romneycare this bill will do nothing about the rising costs of healthcare. Which makes the 10 year projection nothing but a guessing game. And like all 10 year projections by the government. They almost never turn out to be true.
    The CBO releases a new estimate every yearbased on current trends and analysis. I wish more people would read these reports and not rely on politically motivated hacks to tell them what the report says. They’re really not that long. And the ACA does do something, in fact many things, about the rising costs of health care. It just doesn't do everything, or possibly enough things. I was a lot happier with Obama's proposal than what wound up getting passed. They gutted some key parts. There is no other workable alternative though. What does Romney want to do? So far, all I’ve heard is that he is going to, “Repeal it on his first day in office”. Which is either a flat out lie or a display of profound ignorance on the way our government works. There is no way for him to just repeal it; it’s an act of Congress.
    Last edited by Two Tacos; 06-29-2012 at 10:30 AM. Reason: missed some spaces.
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