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Thread: "What if you're wrong?" - Richard Dawkins

  1. -11
    Statler Waldorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY8123 View Post
    Faith : b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof

    You can debate the subject of faith and wast your seconds here on earth talking about what happens when we expire or...........you can take my approach and wait to see who's right when it happens leaving ample time to devote to something I can prove exists........beer!!
    You’re committing the fallacy of equivocation; that is not how the Bible uses the word faith. So changing the definition of the word in order to prove your point is logically invalid. Here is the definition that is more consistent with how the Bible uses the word…

    1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
    Total Depravity
    Unconditional Election
    Limited Atonement
    Irresistible Grace
    Perseverance of the Saints
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post
    You’re committing the fallacy of equivocation; that is not how the Bible uses the word faith. So changing the definition of the word in order to prove your point is logically invalid. Here is the definition that is more consistent with how the Bible uses the word…

    1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
    But youre trusting in a person/thing that you cannot prove exists, so it still comes back to NY's definition IMO.




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    Statler Waldorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post
    But youre trusting in a person/thing that you cannot prove exists, so it still comes back to NY's definition IMO.
    Who said I can't prove He exists?
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    Locke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post
    Who said I can't prove He exists?

    If I could take your pain and frame it, and hang it on my wall,
    maybe you would never have to hurt again...

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    tylerdolphin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post
    Who said I can't prove He exists?
    Well Im a soul thats headed for hell unless you can prove it, so I think its your moral obligation to prove this for me.
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    Statler Waldorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post
    Well Im a soul thats headed for hell unless you can prove it, so I think its your moral obligation to prove this for me.
    Not quite, it’s my moral obligation to defend the faith, not to persuade you that God exists. That’s impossible apart from God changing your heart.

    How technical do you want to go with this? Keep it simple or pretty in depth?
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    tylerdolphin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post
    Not quite, it’s my moral obligation to defend the faith, not to persuade you that God exists. That’s impossible apart from God changing your heart.

    How technical do you want to go with this? Keep it simple or pretty in depth?
    Proof is proof my man. Any will do.

    And the Bible tells you to go forth and make disciples. So yeah, you do have an obligation.
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    Statler Waldorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post
    Proof is proof my man. Any will do.
    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post

    And the Bible tells you to go forth and make disciples. So yeah, you do have an obligation.


    Well there are different types of proof, some being more technical than others.
    Ok, but what does the Bible say about how a disciple is made? The Bible also says that people could see a dead man rise from the grave and still not believe; in fact they cannot believe until their heart of stone is replaced by a heart of flesh by the Holy Spirit. So it’s just my job to do the defending, if God wills it He will do the changing of hearts. I don’t want to get off onto a soteriological rabbit trail though so I will keep on point.

    The proof for God’s existence is that without Him, it would be impossible to know or prove anything.
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    tylerdolphin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post
    The proof for God’s existence is that without Him, it would be impossible to know or prove anything.
    Well thats simply not true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post
    Well thats simply not true.
    No it is quite true, in an atheistic universe knowledge would be completely impossible because none of the preconditions of intelligibility could be assumed to be true, thus making knowledge itself impossible. We know what we know because we live in a Universe governed by the God of the Bible. So even when a person questions His existence, the very act of questioning and seeking truth prove His existence.
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