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Thread: Bill Nye: Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children

  1. -101
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    What cracks me up is when it comes to things like radiometric dating, Waldorf becomes the ultimate skeptic. But when he talks about 6000 year old dinosaurs coexisting with humans, all of that skepticism just goes away. Funny how he requires so little evidence when something confirms his beliefs.

    Apparently the mentioning of dragons in the bible and China (which could be any number of animals), 1 biologist's story in 1983, and an aboriginal's drawing is sufficient proof for something that confirm's Waldorf's beliefs. However, the fact that mulitple radiometric methods come up with the same age of old rocks, and that these ages line up to other methods of dating such as tree rings, etc....well that just isn't good enough for Waldorf.
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    Quote Originally Posted by irish fin fan View Post
    Wow, your humor is amazing. Some of the most f@&$ed up jokes I've ever heard. I'm sure we will be hearing about a Jurassic Park any day now with all those DNA samples from the abundance of dinasour soft tissue you claim has been found. Where can I find some of this dinasour soft tissue?
    Area 51. God put it there to hide it from everyone so he could test their faith in him. Statler told me that last Tuesday over a game of Earthbound in a hazy Oakland Cannabis Club. At least, I think it was Statler.
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  3. -103
    Statler Waldorf's Avatar
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    This thread just hit a whole new level of crazy...dinosaurs still walking Earth? I dont know what else to say lol.


    So you first claim dinosaurs can’t coexist with people because there are no stories of them coexisting with people and then when I point to numerous stories of large reptiles coexisting and terrorizing people you call it crazy? It’s awfully convenient how you based your whole view of the earth’s history on such circular reasoning; unfortunately it’s just not rational to do so.

    Do you have ANY evidence of actual large dinosaurs (T-Rex, Brontosaurus, ect.) co-existing with people?


    Of course, soft tissue being found in dinosaur fossils IS evidence they coexisted with people since soft tissue cannot survive for longer than a few thousand years. Although I’ll give you one thing, Brontosaurus never coexisted with people considering Brontosaurus never existed at all (Brontosaurus was an erroneous skeleton where a Camarasaurus head was mistakenly placed on an Apatosaurus body). To think I have been called the ignorant and crazy one but then you guys make such mistakes as this? Give me a break.

    Why would nobody both writing it down? Im not talking about some small creature illiterate tribes people claim to see. Im talking legit dinosaurs.


    Did you even read my post? There are numerous stories of large reptiles living near and even terrorizing people, the historian/explorer Marco Polo documented seeing such creatures in China. Several creatures are even described in the Bible, so people did write them down, they just didn’t use the word dinosaur because it wasn’t invented yet.

    That's not good enough. Know why that's not good enough?


    Logically it is “good enough”; you claiming it is not good enough doesn’t prove anything because the logical merit of an argument isn’t measured by whether or not it persuades somebody.

    Just because something is written down doesn't make it true. You have no way of proving & demonstrating how God does those things other than it was written on a piece of paper.


    I never said it was true because it was written down, I said it was true because God HAS to do those things in order for us to know anything at all, and the only God who could have done those things is Yahweh because He is the only God with those characteristics who has revealed Himself to us. An appeal to any other god with those same characteristics who has not revealed Himself to us is a fallacious argument from silence, so that’s not allowed. However, you’re wasting your time since you are a naturalist, so defend your own position not some other religion’s position.

    Wow, your humor is amazing. Some of the most f@&$ed up jokes I've ever heard. I'm sure we will be hearing about a Jurassic Park any day now with all those DNA samples from the abundance of dinasour soft tissue you claim has been found. Where can I find some of this dinasour soft tissue?
    Wait, are you really saying that no soft tissue has been found?

    Get with the times man, they’ve been finding soft tissue for years now…

    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaur.html


    Fascinating isn't it?

    I can not believe the lack of education one must have believing that Earth only exists for 6000 to 6500 years and Dinosaurs co-existed with humans. The absolute top of the food chain and mankind survived.
    I am the un-educated one? That’s downright laughable considering that one of you didn’t know Brontosaurus never existed, one of you didn’t know that soft tissue had been found in dinosaur fossils and apparently you didn’t know that “can not” is actually one word :-P You guys talk a good game, but when it comes down to actual evidence and logic you all are found to be extremely lacking. Why couldn’t dinosaurs coexist with people? You’re going to have to provide something to back that claim up because I provided plenty of evidence to suggest they in fact did coexist together.
    What cracks me up is when it comes to things like radiometric dating, Waldorf becomes the ultimate skeptic. But when he talks about 6000 year old dinosaurs coexisting with humans, all of that skepticism just goes away. Funny how he requires so little evidence when something confirms his beliefs.


    What cracks me up is that when it comes to radiometric dating you don’t require any sort of empirical verification that it even works, but when it comes to believing that soft tissue decays rather quickly which is empirically supported you just waive it off because it would completely blow up your view that the earth is billions of years old. So in fact you’re the one shifting the goalposts, not me, I base my beliefs on logic and empirically verifiable dating methods, you base yours on theory and irrationality.

    Apparently the mentioning of dragons in the bible and China (which could be any number of animals),


    You’re aware of giant bi-pedal reptiles running around at those times that were not dinosaurs? This ought to be interesting, which ones?


    1 biologist's story in 1983, and an aboriginal's drawing is sufficient proof for something that confirm's Waldorf's beliefs.


    Ahh, so now that biologist is a liar too, and all of those aboriginals were quite knowledgeable about dinosaurs that hadn’t been discovered yet? It’s all one giant conspiracy! :-P


    [QUOTE} However, the fact that mulitple radiometric methods come up with the same age of old rocks, and that these ages line up to other methods of dating such as tree rings, etc....well that just isn't good enough for Waldorf. [/QUOTE]

    Not even close, the fact that you seemingly can’t prove the method works on rocks of known age makes me doubt that it magically works on rocks of unknown age. Tree rings? How do tree rings help verify radiometric dating’s results of millions and billions of years? You just don’t have any clue about how any of this stuff works do you? It’s obvious you’re just accepting its validity based on your blind faith in what scientists tell you, that’s rather sad.

    1.
    Area 51. God put it there to hide it from everyone so he could test their faith in him. Statler told me that last Tuesday over a game of Earthbound in a hazy Oakland Cannabis Club. At least, I think it was Statler.
    Resorting to fallacious appeals to ridicule when you can’t refute any of my points again I see. Could you imagine if Christians did this? Every time somebody made a logical or evidential point to support their position we just made fun of them or ridiculed them. You guys would have a cow, and yet it’s your first line of defense when you’re the ones being pushed around in a debate, it’s downright disappointing but not surprising at all. Let’s recap the debate so far…

    Atheists’: You can’t prove God exists!
    SW: *Provides a valid and sound syllogism proving God has to exist
    Atheists: That doesn’t work!
    SW: Why not?
    Atheists: We don’t know, but it just doesn’t work! I bet you believe dinosaurs and humans coexisted huh?
    SW: Sure
    Atheists: what! How could you possibly believe that!? Where’s your evidence?
    SW: Well since I already proved God exists I could just use scripture to support my position now.
    Atheists: No! That’s not going to work!
    SW: Why not?
    Atheists: We don’t know but it just can’t! Do you have any evidence?
    SW: Sure, soft tissue was found in dinosaur bones and it cannot last for millions of years.
    Atheists: Soft tissue can last that long!
    SW: Oh really? How?
    Atheists: We don’t know! If dinosaurs did live with people there should be tons of stories about them and you don’t have any stories do you?
    SW: Sure I do, there are thousands of stories about large reptiles terrorizing people from antiquity, the Bible has two such accounts, even modern groups in Australia and Africa have accounts of such animals.
    Atheists: That’s not evidence!
    SW: Why not?

    Atheists: We don’t know! You’re crazy!
    SW: Well you sure got me on that one.


    Here's more evidence I am sure you all will just ignore because it flies in the face of your old earth...




    Bipedal creature with a long tail etched by Native Americans on the wall of the Grand Canyon.




    Stone etching found on a 13th century temple wall in Cambodia, looks like a dinosaur to me.




    Carving's on the 16th century Bishop Bell's tomb, 200 years before the discovery of the first dinosaur fossils.

    More firsthand encounters that you can ignore!

    In his published writings, Ulysses Aldrovandus, an Italian physician and naturalists described the encounter a man had with a 10 foot tall reptilian creature on May 13th
    , 1572 in Italy.

    Writings from the 10th century document an Irishman’s encounter with a creature whose description matches that of a stegosaurus.

    In the 16th century the European scientific and historical document entitled Historia Animalium describes several creatures which fit the description of dinosaurs as still living at the time.

    The town of Nerluc in the Southern region of France reported being terrorized by a beast they called the “Tarasque”; it was plated with armored scales and plates and was 20-25 feet in length. The creature roamed their fields and vineyards killing livestock and even a couple herdsmen.

    In 1572 a large reptilian creature was reported to inhabit the area known as Lapland in Scandinavia.

    On November 30, 1222- London was terrorized by several flying reptiles.

    Henham, Englad- in 1669 a 10 foot long reptilian creature was spotted numerous times roaming just outside of the city for several months.

    In the 12th century in Ireland, Tristan of Lyonesse killed a large bipedal reptile.

    In 13th century France a large reptilian creature called “Drac” terrorized two different towns; one of them is now named Draguignan after the creature.

    In Drachenfels, Germany a large reptilian creature was described as actually killing and eating several young women in the 12th century.

    Christopher Scharer who was the Prefect of the canton of Solothurn in present-day Switzerland reported a winged lizard that was spotted several times in 1619, and a hunter’s encounter with a large scaled reptile in 1654.

    In Italy the Historia Naturalis written by Pliny the Elder reported that a large reptilian bipedal creature was killed on Vatican Hill during the reign of the Emperor Claudius, the reptile’s stomach when cut open contained the body of a child.

    In Kiev, Ukraine in the 11th century a large reptilian creature called Gorynych that had terrorized the area for years was killed by a local hero named Dobrynja.

    In 793 numerous monks who inhabited the island of Lindisfarne of the coast of England documented their observation of dozens of flying reptiles who had scales of varying colors.
    Alexander the Great and his army were reported to kill several large reptiles in India, and described the local Indians as worshipping large hissing bipedal reptiles who inhabited the local caves.

    The historian Aelian's describes in his work entitled De Natura Auimalium that in the region known as Phrygia large ferocious bipedal reptiles measure up to 10 paces in length (30 feet).

    In 700 Cracus killed an enormous bipedal reptile in present day Poland.

    The Roman historian Livy describes an encounter between the Roman Army lead by General Regulus in Africa, "After many of the soldiers had been seized in its mouth, and many more crushed by the folds of its tail; its hide being too thick for javelins and darts the creature was at last attacked by military engines and crushed by repeated blows from heavy stones."'

    The Roman historian Pliny describes hunters luring a large reptile out of a cave and then killing it. He also describes there being violent encounters between large reptiles and Elephants in Africa and India.

    St. George was documented to kill large reptiles in Germany, England, and Northern Africa.

    China anointed its first dragon feeders in 1611, a position that was highly honored and well paid (why pay someone to feed a creature that supposedly doesn’t exist?).

    The Chinese lord Szu-ma Niu described China being overrun with large reptilian creatures during the Chou Dynasty ( 481 Be)

    The Chinese Emperor Hwo was known for enjoying soup made from the flesh of dragons that had been found dead near his kingdom.

    The Orient is known for selling “dragon bones” for thousands of years, once dinosaur bones were discovered in the 19th century scientists realized that they were identical to the large bones sold by those in the Orient. If the bones of “dragons” ended up being dinosaur bones then why can’t the stories of “dragons” also be dinosaurs?

    In 1977 a 32 foot long and 4,000 lbs. decaying creature was caught in a net by a Japanese trawler off the coast of New Zealand. Tissue samples were collected and tested at the National Science Museum of Japan, it was concluded the samples were not from any known living creature, the institute concluded that the animal must have been a recently living Plesiosaur. The scientist who tested the tissue samples was quoted as saying, “It seems that these animals are not extinct after all. It's impossible for only one to have survived. There must be a group." The discovery won the award for “Science Discovery of the Year” in Japan.

    In 1981, University of Chicago Professors Roy Mackal and James Powell confirmed through their studies in the jungles in the Congo that a large Diplodocus-like sauropodian is still living.


    In 1980 a local described seeing a large creature in the waters near Lake Tele, Africa. When shown different pictures of various creatures currently living and extinct he identified the creature as a Sauropod, he described the creature as four times the size of an Elephant and having a “snake-like” head that was 6-8 feet in length.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf
    I never said it was true because it was written down, I said it was true because God HAS to do those things in order for us to know anything at all, and the only God who could have done those things is Yahweh because He is the only God with those characteristics who has revealed Himself to us. An appeal to any other god with those same characteristics who has not revealed Himself to us is a fallacious argument from silence, so that’s not allowed. However, you’re wasting your time since you are a naturalist, so defend your own position not some other religion’s position.


    You can't prove the that. That's just your opinion. We know knowledge exists, you still haven't proven God exists, or even proven that knowledge is impossible without God. It's a completely un-demonstrable/ un-testable assertion. Ergo, it isn't factual; ergo, your syllogism isn't valid. Premises need to be verifiable in order to be valid, you can't prove that God exists, & you can't prove that knowledge can't exist without God.

    You can claim all day long that the Christian God accounts for all your "preconditions", but you still can't prove that he does. You can say "he must!", but again you don't know that & you certainly can't prove it. You can say "well no one else can prove
    how the universe was created so mine HAS to be right", but again, that's not how proof works.

    I want you to consider again that absolutely nobody can prove how the universe was created, yet.

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  6. -106
    irish fin fan's Avatar
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    Bill Nye: Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post

    So you first claim dinosaurs canít coexist with people because there are no stories of them coexisting with people and then when I point to numerous stories of large reptiles coexisting and terrorizing people you call it crazy? Itís awfully convenient how you based your whole view of the earthís history on such circular reasoning; unfortunately itís just not rational to do so.



    Of course, soft tissue being found in dinosaur fossils IS evidence they coexisted with people since soft tissue cannot survive for longer than a few thousand years. Although Iíll give you one thing, Brontosaurus never coexisted with people considering Brontosaurus never existed at all (Brontosaurus was an erroneous skeleton where a Camarasaurus head was mistakenly placed on an Apatosaurus body). To think I have been called the ignorant and crazy one but then you guys make such mistakes as this? Give me a break.



    Did you even read my post? There are numerous stories of large reptiles living near and even terrorizing people, the historian/explorer Marco Polo documented seeing such creatures in China. Several creatures are even described in the Bible, so people did write them down, they just didnít use the word dinosaur because it wasnít invented yet.



    Logically it is ďgood enoughĒ; you claiming it is not good enough doesnít prove anything because the logical merit of an argument isnít measured by whether or not it persuades somebody.



    I never said it was true because it was written down, I said it was true because God HAS to do those things in order for us to know anything at all, and the only God who could have done those things is Yahweh because He is the only God with those characteristics who has revealed Himself to us. An appeal to any other god with those same characteristics who has not revealed Himself to us is a fallacious argument from silence, so thatís not allowed. However, youíre wasting your time since you are a naturalist, so defend your own position not some other religionís position.



    Wait, are you really saying that no soft tissue has been found?

    Get with the times man, theyíve been finding soft tissue for years nowÖ

    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaur.html




    I am the un-educated one? Thatís downright laughable considering that one of you didnít know Brontosaurus never existed, one of you didnít know that soft tissue had been found in dinosaur fossils and apparently you didnít know that ďcan notĒ is actually one word :-P You guys talk a good game, but when it comes down to actual evidence and logic you all are found to be extremely lacking. Why couldnít dinosaurs coexist with people? Youíre going to have to provide something to back that claim up because I provided plenty of evidence to suggest they in fact did coexist together.


    What cracks me up is that when it comes to radiometric dating you donít require any sort of empirical verification that it even works, but when it comes to believing that soft tissue decays rather quickly which is empirically supported you just waive it off because it would completely blow up your view that the earth is billions of years old. So in fact youíre the one shifting the goalposts, not me, I base my beliefs on logic and empirically verifiable dating methods, you base yours on theory and irrationality.



    Youíre aware of giant bi-pedal reptiles running around at those times that were not dinosaurs? This ought to be interesting, which ones?




    Ahh, so now that biologist is a liar too, and all of those aboriginals were quite knowledgeable about dinosaurs that hadnít been discovered yet? Itís all one giant conspiracy! :-P


    However, the fact that mulitple radiometric methods come up with the same age of old rocks, and that these ages line up to other methods of dating such as tree rings, etc....well that just isn't good enough for Waldorf.

    Not even close, the fact that you seemingly canít prove the method works on rocks of known age makes me doubt that it magically works on rocks of unknown age. Tree rings? How do tree rings help verify radiometric datingís results of millions and billions of years? You just donít have any clue about how any of this stuff works do you? Itís obvious youíre just accepting its validity based on your blind faith in what scientists tell you, thatís rather sad.

    1.

    Resorting to fallacious appeals to ridicule when you canít refute any of my points again I see. Could you imagine if Christians did this? Every time somebody made a logical or evidential point to support their position we just made fun of them or ridiculed them. You guys would have a cow, and yet itís your first line of defense when youíre the ones being pushed around in a debate, itís downright disappointing but not surprising at all. Letís recap the debate so farÖ

    Atheistsí: You canít prove God exists!
    SW: *Provides a valid and sound syllogism proving God has to exist
    Atheists: That doesnít work!
    SW: Why not?
    Atheists: We donít know, but it just doesnít work! I bet you believe dinosaurs and humans coexisted huh?
    SW: Sure
    Atheists: what! How could you possibly believe that!? Whereís your evidence?
    SW: Well since I already proved God exists I could just use scripture to support my position now.
    Atheists: No! Thatís not going to work!
    SW: Why not?
    Atheists: We donít know but it just canít! Do you have any evidence?
    SW: Sure, soft tissue was found in dinosaur bones and it cannot last for millions of years.
    Atheists: Soft tissue can last that long!
    SW: Oh really? How?
    Atheists: We donít know! If dinosaurs did live with people there should be tons of stories about them and you donít have any stories do you?
    SW: Sure I do, there are thousands of stories about large reptiles terrorizing people from antiquity, the Bible has two such accounts, even modern groups in Australia and Africa have accounts of such animals.
    Atheists: Thatís not evidence!
    SW: Why not?

    Atheists: We donít know! Youíre crazy!
    SW: Well you sure got me on that one.


    Here's more evidence I am sure you all will just ignore because it flies in the face of your old earth...




    Bipedal creature with a long tail etched by Native Americans on the wall of the Grand Canyon.




    Stone etching found on a 13th century temple wall in Cambodia, looks like a dinosaur to me.




    Carving's on the 16th century Bishop Bell's tomb, 200 years before the discovery of the first dinosaur fossils.

    More firsthand encounters that you can ignore!

    In his published writings, Ulysses Aldrovandus, an Italian physician and naturalists described the encounter a man had with a 10 foot tall reptilian creature on May 13th
    , 1572 in Italy.

    Writings from the 10th century document an Irishmanís encounter with a creature whose description matches that of a stegosaurus.

    In the 16th century the European scientific and historical document entitled Historia Animalium describes several creatures which fit the description of dinosaurs as still living at the time.

    The town of Nerluc in the Southern region of France reported being terrorized by a beast they called the ďTarasqueĒ; it was plated with armored scales and plates and was 20-25 feet in length. The creature roamed their fields and vineyards killing livestock and even a couple herdsmen.

    In 1572 a large reptilian creature was reported to inhabit the area known as Lapland in Scandinavia.

    On November 30, 1222- London was terrorized by several flying reptiles.

    Henham, Englad- in 1669 a 10 foot long reptilian creature was spotted numerous times roaming just outside of the city for several months.

    In the 12th century in Ireland, Tristan of Lyonesse killed a large bipedal reptile.

    In 13th century France a large reptilian creature called ďDracĒ terrorized two different towns; one of them is now named Draguignan after the creature.

    In Drachenfels, Germany a large reptilian creature was described as actually killing and eating several young women in the 12th century.

    Christopher Scharer who was the Prefect of the canton of Solothurn in present-day Switzerland reported a winged lizard that was spotted several times in 1619, and a hunterís encounter with a large scaled reptile in 1654.

    In Italy the Historia Naturalis written by Pliny the Elder reported that a large reptilian bipedal creature was killed on Vatican Hill during the reign of the Emperor Claudius, the reptileís stomach when cut open contained the body of a child.

    In Kiev, Ukraine in the 11th century a large reptilian creature called Gorynych that had terrorized the area for years was killed by a local hero named Dobrynja.

    In 793 numerous monks who inhabited the island of Lindisfarne of the coast of England documented their observation of dozens of flying reptiles who had scales of varying colors.
    Alexander the Great and his army were reported to kill several large reptiles in India, and described the local Indians as worshipping large hissing bipedal reptiles who inhabited the local caves.

    The historian Aelian's describes in his work entitled De Natura Auimalium that in the region known as Phrygia large ferocious bipedal reptiles measure up to 10 paces in length (30 feet).

    In 700 Cracus killed an enormous bipedal reptile in present day Poland.

    The Roman historian Livy describes an encounter between the Roman Army lead by General Regulus in Africa, "After many of the soldiers had been seized in its mouth, and many more crushed by the folds of its tail; its hide being too thick for javelins and darts the creature was at last attacked by military engines and crushed by repeated blows from heavy stones."'

    The Roman historian Pliny describes hunters luring a large reptile out of a cave and then killing it. He also describes there being violent encounters between large reptiles and Elephants in Africa and India.

    St. George was documented to kill large reptiles in Germany, England, and Northern Africa.

    China anointed its first dragon feeders in 1611, a position that was highly honored and well paid (why pay someone to feed a creature that supposedly doesnít exist?).

    The Chinese lord Szu-ma Niu described China being overrun with large reptilian creatures during the Chou Dynasty ( 481 Be)

    The Chinese Emperor Hwo was known for enjoying soup made from the flesh of dragons that had been found dead near his kingdom.

    The Orient is known for selling ďdragon bonesĒ for thousands of years, once dinosaur bones were discovered in the 19th century scientists realized that they were identical to the large bones sold by those in the Orient. If the bones of ďdragonsĒ ended up being dinosaur bones then why canít the stories of ďdragonsĒ also be dinosaurs?

    In 1977 a 32 foot long and 4,000 lbs. decaying creature was caught in a net by a Japanese trawler off the coast of New Zealand. Tissue samples were collected and tested at the National Science Museum of Japan, it was concluded the samples were not from any known living creature, the institute concluded that the animal must have been a recently living Plesiosaur. The scientist who tested the tissue samples was quoted as saying, ďIt seems that these animals are not extinct after all. It's impossible for only one to have survived. There must be a group." The discovery won the award for ďScience Discovery of the YearĒ in Japan.

    In 1981, University of Chicago Professors Roy Mackal and James Powell confirmed through their studies in the jungles in the Congo that a large Diplodocus-like sauropodian is still living.


    In 1980 a local described seeing a large creature in the waters near Lake Tele, Africa. When shown different pictures of various creatures currently living and extinct he identified the creature as a Sauropod, he described the creature as four times the size of an Elephant and having a ďsnake-likeĒ head that was 6-8 feet in length.


    You forgot to mention the lock ness monster.

    I couldn't stop laughing when she said the discovery was dated back to about 68 million years. Talking about pulling the stuff that supports your theory and ignoring the stuff that doesn't.

    By the way you need to keep your jokes consistent. You said to me earlier that it would be impossible to find dinasours and people together and now in this post you are claiming that they coexisted.
    Last edited by rob19; 09-14-2012 at 12:43 AM. Reason: correcting his quoting problem
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  7. -107
    rob19's Avatar
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    Wow Statler, you didn't even read the article you posted.


    After 68 million years in the ground, a Tyrannosaurus rex found in Montana was dug up, its leg bone was broken in pieces, and fragments were dissolved in acid in Schweitzer’s laboratory at North Carolina State University in Raleigh

    It was big news indeed last year when Schweitzer announced she had discovered blood vessels and structures that looked like whole cells inside that T. rex bone—the first observation of its kind. The finding amazed colleagues, who had never imagined that even a trace of still-soft dinosaur tissue could survive. After all, as any textbook will tell you, when an animal dies, soft tissues such as blood vessels, muscle and skin decay and disappear over time, while hard tissues like bone may gradually acquire minerals from the environment and become fossils. Schweitzer, one of the first scientists to use the tools of modern cell biology to study dinosaurs, has upended the conventional wisdom by showing that some rock-hard fossils tens of millions of years old may have remnants of soft tissues hidden away in their interiors. “The reason it hasn’t been discovered before is no right-thinking paleontologist would do what Mary did with her specimens. We don’t go to all this effort to dig this stuff out of the ground to then destroy it in acid,” says dinosaur paleontologist Thomas Holtz Jr., of the University of Maryland.

    Meanwhile, Schweitzer’s research has been hijacked by “young earth” creationists, who insist that dinosaur soft tissue couldn’t possibly survive millions of years. They claim her discoveries support their belief, based on their interpretation of Genesis, that the earth is only a few thousand years old. Of course, it’s not unusual for a paleontologist to differ with creationists. But when creationists misrepresent Schweitzer’s data, she takes it personally: she describes herself as “a complete and total Christian.” On a shelf in her office is a plaque bearing an Old Testament verse: “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”

    What she found instead was evidence of heme in the bones—additional support for the idea that they were red blood cells. Heme is a part of hemoglobin, the protein that carries oxygen in the blood and gives red blood cells their color. “It got me real curious as to exceptional preservation,” she says. If particles of that one dinosaur were able to hang around for 65 million years, maybe the textbooks were wrong about fossilization.

    Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...#ixzz26Ow6KX3o


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    Further discoveries in the past year have shown that the discovery of soft tissue in B. rex wasn’t just a fluke. Schweitzer and Wittmeyer have now found probable blood vessels, bone-building cells and connective tissue in another T. rex, in a theropod from Argentina and in a 300,000-year-old woolly mammoth fossil. Schweitzer’s work is “showing us we really don’t understand decay,” Holtz says. “There’s a lot of really basic stuff in nature that people just make assumptions about.”

    Young-earth creationists also see Schweitzer’s work as revolutionary, but in an entirely different way. They first seized upon Schweitzer’s work after she wrote an article for the popular science magazine Earth in 1997 about possible red blood cells in her dinosaur specimens. Creation magazine claimed that Schweitzer’s research was “powerful testimony against the whole idea of dinosaurs living millions of years ago. It speaks volumes for the Bible’s account of a recent creation.”

    This drives Schweitzer crazy. Geologists have established that the Hell Creek Formation, where B. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and so are the bones buried in it. She’s horrified that some Christians accuse her of hiding the true meaning of her data. “They treat you really bad,” she says. “They twist your words and they manipulate your data.” For her, science and religion represent two different ways of looking at the world; invoking the hand of God to explain natural phenomena breaks the rules of science. After all, she says, what God asks is faith, not evidence. “If you have all this evidence and proof positive that God exists, you don’t need faith. I think he kind of designed it so that we’d never be able to prove his existence. And I think that’s really cool.”

    By definition, there is a lot that scientists don’t know, because the whole point of science is to explore the unknown. By being clear that scientists haven’t explained everything, Schweitzer leaves room for other explanations. “I think that we’re always wise to leave certain doors open,” she says.

    Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...#ixzz26OypkRZf


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    Ours is the fury.

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    but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was "Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!"


    Quote Originally Posted by King Stannis Baratheon
    Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.
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    I wasn't aware this had become a cryptozoology thread. I love this kind of ****. Fascinating.
    Peace and Humptiness Forever


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