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Thread: Bill Nye: Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children

  1. -191
    irish fin fan's Avatar
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    Bill Nye: Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children

    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    Hey now.
    First you have to presuppose that the Universe exist with a God or because of a God before you make the argument that the Universe exists without a God.
    Basically refute your own position before you are trying to prove your position.

    The posts this guy comes up with is such utter drivel.
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  2. -192
    Statler Waldorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    What is there to refute? There is no way a sane person can refute or debate with insane people. Just your statement that in order to deny god's existence I have to first presuppose his existence is not an argument for sane people. Why argue a point if I have to presuppose the opposite.


    Youíre the one arguing against the existence of God while presupposing He exists, not me. You made an appeal to people making decisions and yet if your atheism were true peopleís decisions would be already pre-determined in accordance to natural law. So you were appealing to something that can only be true if God existed and trying to use it to argue against Godís existence.

    You are presenting trap arguments or you are trying to turn debates into traps. Your requirement to presuppose the existence of god before I can argue that he does not exist is a completely wrong use of a presupposition.


    No, I was pointing out that you trapped yourself by your own argument. You made an appeal to something that could not be true if atheism were true and yet you were using it to argue for atheism; thatís called a self-refuting argument, I merely pointed out you were using it.

    Let's make it easier for the insane. My opinion is that God does not exist, nor has he ever existed, nor will he ever exist. Now you can plaster your version of 'presuppose' where the sun does not shine (presupposition: The sun shines).

    Well you are free to have the opinion that God does not exist just as much as someone is free to have the opinion that air doesnít exist, opinions do not prove anything though. As soon as you try arguing that God in fact does not exist you begin to resort to self-refutation exactly like someone who begins trying to argue that air doesnít exist. That is where I must step in and point the self-refutation out.

    Quote Originally Posted by irish fin fan View Post
    All your so called logic is based, in your mind, that a god exists. Sorry, the universe exists and it exists without a God. Sorry to burst your bubble. But you keep making up whatever bull**** logic to keep your fantasy's moving along.


    Sadly you are quite long on assertions and rather short on argumentation, I already gave an example of how Phins_4_Ever was appealing to something that could not be true if his atheism were true, that in itself is an inconsistency, but couple that with the fact that he was appealing to that very thing in order to try and prove his atheism were true and we have ourselves a self-refuting argument. If youíre an atheist you cannot appeal to human decision or choice because there is no room for it in a purely natural universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    Hey now.
    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    First you have to presuppose that the Universe exist with a God or because of a God before you make the argument that the Universe exists without a God.
    Basically refute your own position before you are trying to prove your position.


    Not exactly, his problem was that he merely made an assertion (only the Universe exists), which doesnít prove anything. So he can either make an assertion which doesnít prove anything either way, or he can try to form an actual argument. The only problem is that logical argumentation relies on presuppositions that can only be true if God exists, so we see the atheist is really in a bind, prove nothing or refute his own position.

    Quote Originally Posted by irish fin fan View Post
    The posts this guy comes up with is such utter drivel.


    ďThe posts this guy comes up with ARE such utter drivel.Ē

    Fixed that for you.

    Again, you just made another assertion, you can try to make an argument to support your position and I can show you how you presuppose God in the argument or you can continue to stick your fingers in your ears and pretend I am the one ignoring the facts, itís up to you.
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  3. -193
    Perfect23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    He dresses a little like Mr. Rogers I guess, but that's about where the similarities end. Peewee was always a creeper though. Looking back at him, it scares me that I watched his show...
    You don't watch his show now oh well I don't watch it either
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  4. -194
    irish fin fan's Avatar
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    Bill Nye: Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post

    Youíre the one arguing against the existence of God while presupposing He exists, not me. You made an appeal to people making decisions and yet if your atheism were true peopleís decisions would be already pre-determined in accordance to natural law. So you were appealing to something that can only be true if God existed and trying to use it to argue against Godís existence.



    No, I was pointing out that you trapped yourself by your own argument. You made an appeal to something that could not be true if atheism were true and yet you were using it to argue for atheism; thatís called a self-refuting argument, I merely pointed out you were using it.


    Well you are free to have the opinion that God does not exist just as much as someone is free to have the opinion that air doesnít exist, opinions do not prove anything though. As soon as you try arguing that God in fact does not exist you begin to resort to self-refutation exactly like someone who begins trying to argue that air doesnít exist. That is where I must step in and point the self-refutation out.



    Sadly you are quite long on assertions and rather short on argumentation, I already gave an example of how Phins_4_Ever was appealing to something that could not be true if his atheism were true, that in itself is an inconsistency, but couple that with the fact that he was appealing to that very thing in order to try and prove his atheism were true and we have ourselves a self-refuting argument. If youíre an atheist you cannot appeal to human decision or choice because there is no room for it in a purely natural universe.



    Not exactly, his problem was that he merely made an assertion (only the Universe exists), which doesnít prove anything. So he can either make an assertion which doesnít prove anything either way, or he can try to form an actual argument. The only problem is that logical argumentation relies on presuppositions that can only be true if God exists, so we see the atheist is really in a bind, prove nothing or refute his own position.



    ďThe posts this guy comes up with ARE such utter drivel.Ē

    Fixed that for you.

    Again, you just made another assertion, you can try to make an argument to support your position and I can show you how you presuppose God in the argument or you can continue to stick your fingers in your ears and pretend I am the one ignoring the facts, itís up to you.
    I'm sure all the species on the face of the earth are having the very same discussion now, not, but they are still here. By some random mutations over millions of years we are now the apex species. Yet some of us are arrogant enough to think we are special, that some god created us. No, we are in the position we are in by pure chance, like winning in Vegas. Pure luck. Nothing more, nothing less.

    All your self delusional nonsense are the by product of one of mans failings, hubris.
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  5. -195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post

    Youíre the one arguing against the existence of God while presupposing He exists, not me. You made an appeal to people making decisions and yet if your atheism were true peopleís decisions would be already pre-determined in accordance to natural law. So you were appealing to something that can only be true if God existed and trying to use it to argue against Godís existence.



    No, I was pointing out that you trapped yourself by your own argument. You made an appeal to something that could not be true if atheism were true and yet you were using it to argue for atheism; thatís called a self-refuting argument, I merely pointed out you were using it.


    Well you are free to have the opinion that God does not exist just as much as someone is free to have the opinion that air doesnít exist, opinions do not prove anything though. As soon as you try arguing that God in fact does not exist you begin to resort to self-refutation exactly like someone who begins trying to argue that air doesnít exist. That is where I must step in and point the self-refutation out.



    Sadly you are quite long on assertions and rather short on argumentation, I already gave an example of how Phins_4_Ever was appealing to something that could not be true if his atheism were true, that in itself is an inconsistency, but couple that with the fact that he was appealing to that very thing in order to try and prove his atheism were true and we have ourselves a self-refuting argument. If youíre an atheist you cannot appeal to human decision or choice because there is no room for it in a purely natural universe.



    Not exactly, his problem was that he merely made an assertion (only the Universe exists), which doesnít prove anything. So he can either make an assertion which doesnít prove anything either way, or he can try to form an actual argument. The only problem is that logical argumentation relies on presuppositions that can only be true if God exists, so we see the atheist is really in a bind, prove nothing or refute his own position.



    ďThe posts this guy comes up with ARE such utter drivel.Ē

    Fixed that for you.

    Again, you just made another assertion, you can try to make an argument to support your position and I can show you how you presuppose God in the argument or you can continue to stick your fingers in your ears and pretend I am the one ignoring the facts, itís up to you.
    You are now freaking me out. You cannot be serious.

    Youíre the one arguing against the existence of God while presupposing He exists, not me.
    I presupposed that he exist? Are you kidding me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post
    In order to argue against the Christian Godís existence you must presuppose that the Christian God exists, you lost the debate before it ever began.
    You said that I have to presuppose that he exists. Forget that you are using 'presupposition' in the totally wrong context. But it certainly wasn't me who said that I have to presuppose his existence.

    You are using presupposition in a contradictory format which does not exist at all.

    I.e. You say that Irish said that the Universe exists and you continue on to say that it doesn't prove anything because it is just an opinion and to make it true he has to presuppose that God exists. This is only true to those who believe that God exists.

    In Irish's case:
    The Universe exists. God does not exist.

    a) The Universe exists.
    Presupposition: The Universe was created.

    b) God does not exist.
    Presupposition: He has never met God, nor has he spoken to God, nor are there any eyewitnesses to God's existence.

    Therefore.
    The Universe exists. God does not exist.

    Presupposition: The Universe was created but not by God.

    A presupposition is a precondition which has to exist to make a statement true. A presupposition is not an additional statement which contradicts the original statement in order to prove it. That's what you are doing. You can never prove a statement with a contradictory preconditional statement because if the contradictory statement would be true what is the point of making another statement.

    What you don't understand is that the burden of proof that God exists or existed lies with you. You have to proof that he existed. You cannot turn around and make us use contradictory preconditions to prove our point because of your inability and lack of evidence to prove his existence.

    Everything you have posted in this thread is based on this premise "I, Statler, throw some **** up against the wall and you scratch it of and proof to me that it was whipped cream". And when we scratch it off and prove too you that it was **** you come up with the notion: "To prove that it was **** you have to presuppose that it was whipped cream in the first place because I said so."
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  6. -196
    dolfan_101's Avatar
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    lol this sub forum is a great tool to determine which posters in the main forum should be worth reading. This place is a riot!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    Been one of my biggest issues with him. Every single year, EVERY YEAR, he makes one completely boneheaded signing that makes you think he went on a massive coke bender the night before, slept in the office, woke up still high as **** and started making calls to anybody that would answer at 4 AM on a weekday; which is apparently **** players like Naanee, Colombo, Barbie Carpenter, etc.
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  7. -197
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolfan_101 View Post
    lol this sub forum is a great tool to determine which posters in the main forum should be worth reading. This place is a riot!
    It is interesting how when reading a person's posts on the main board it's impossible to know the crazy that lurks beneath.
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  8. -198
    irish fin fan's Avatar
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    Bill Nye: Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children

    Quote Originally Posted by dolfan_101 View Post
    lol this sub forum is a great tool to determine which posters in the main forum should be worth reading. This place is a riot!
    I hope you didn't miss the dinosaur discussion earlier in the thread.
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  9. -199
    spydertl79's Avatar
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    What page(s) is that on/ did someone actually make the earth is 6000 years old argument?

    I can't think of any religious leaders who will seriously deny evolution or other scientific facts, but their sheep usually don't get the memo
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  10. -200
    tylerdolphin's Avatar
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    Wait...if Im understanding Statler here, and admittedly I only skimmed the post, God exists because you have to assume he exists to disprove God? What?

    Nobody can prove God doesnt exist anyway. Just like how you cant prove he does exist. I know you think you can, but you cant.




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