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Thread: Is this why i should hate ireland and we get rid of him ??

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    The problem with this board is there are too many good writers!!! I read one thread and am absolutely convinced that Ireland is the "debil", then I turn around and come to a thread like this and think maybe he should be running for mayor. Both sides can bring up some pretty good arguments, on the Ireland debate. If you break down his moves, move by move, you can understand why he did all of them. Looking back I still scratch my head at the Marshall trade, but Vontae was an idiot, and to get a 2nd and 6th for a backup DB is better than good, it's freaking highway robbery.

    Ireland is the type of person that I WANT to pull for, but the bottom line is this is a "win now" league, and even if you say he had no influence in who was being brought in before 2010, that still puts it all on him since then. And I have to think the most time you get is three years in the league before you have to say "this is MY mess". Even in politics the president can only blame the previous president until about halfway through his first term, if he can't get things turned around then, even they will admit it is on them. So the way I see it is the proof is in the pudding. It's put up or shut up time. If Jeff can't trot out a winning product THIS year, vs a fairly easy schedule I think we have to see his ability to field a winner, as FAILED. There really is no other way to look at it.

    Now comes the problem. If he isn't able to win with what we have, what do we do?? If we sack him and send him packing that opens up a whole NEW can of worms. We have just changed directions and drafted a whole new type of player to accomodate Philbin, but if we fire Jeff, the new GM will want his own coach, and that will mean yet another change of direction. And that will mean another 2-3 years before we can expect to field a winner. Yet if we keep Jeff we must expect more of the same. Either way seems like a less than great short term.

    Jeff has always struck me as a stand up guy. Maybe what he is doing is setting up the next guy for success. He knows he is getting the axe and is setting up the next guy with 5 picks in the first 3 rds and 50 million in spending under the cap, with what looks like a pretty good young QB and a few other pieces to work with. I hate to be one of those "chicken littles, looking up for the sky to fall", but to be 100% honest I don't see this ending well...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mogwai View Post
    Honestly, these kinds of threads depress me. There are a lot of people here who agree with you. You don't state your point incoherently or anything it just doesn't correlate with reality. This shows you can spin just about anything. Hell, you even spun the safety situation into a strength. It's not just a matter of limiting glaring holes, when most teams try to avoid having any. How high is the ability level at other positions, is there depth, is there established talent and youth. The basic elements of a competitive, complete roster. That roster you posted is not good enough to seriously compete in this league. If the team were as talent rich and perfectly constructed as you seem to think then we would actually win some games. You are what your record says you are and reality has pretty much rejected the idea that Ireland has been good at his job.

    SPOT ON!!! I feel exactly the same way. It truely is amazing what good a spin doctors can accomplish. Bottom line is we have to keep our eyes on the ball, and that is the overall record. Right now he is losing and it surely doesn't look like he is getting it turned around THIS year. I really like the guy, I just don't know how you can look at his full body of work and call it a success.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry_Bagpipe View Post
    Homer thread. I swear Ireland could trade tanny tomorrow for a 7 th rounder and I can name at least ten people easily who would eventually spin it to being a solid move.
    Okay, you can call me a homer all you want, but I tried to be as unbiased as possible, please explain where in my analysis, I was being a homer, that would greatly help, so I can lose the homer tag. And as much as a homer I might be, your above statement is so illogical, that it renders you almost insane. If Ireland and scouts spent an entire year scouting Tannehill draft him in the First round give him 12 Million guaranteed and trade him for a 7th rounder, he wouldn't even make it out of Davie alive. Anyhow, since we are on Ireland And Tannehill, do you people realize he is one of the few GM's since the new rookie payscale that managed to get off-set language in a contract, and what that does is protect the franchise. Very few GM's had the balls, to even approach to subject, but he pulled it off. No credit on that end either.
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    Looks like a homer thread. I'm not even that negative. I'm always realistic, and always want the Fins to succeed. HOWEVER....

    1.) Half those players are solid at best. Some of them are only decent.

    2.) Reggie Bush is basically the only play maker on this team

    3.) WR is not our only concern, but this is a passing league.

    4.) 5 years of FA signings and draft picks, and the O-line still has major problems and little depth.

    5.) It's a passing league, yet we have no pass rush still and our secondary is suspect. Our only proven pass rusher at LB is Wake.

    6.) This is the first year we actually addressed the QB position. Henne was just a back-up plan; they really wanted Flacco instead. 5 years of passing on QBs.

    7.) Our 2 play makers on this team, Bush and Wake, weren't even drafted.

    8.) If this team is talented, why do we keep losing? Sparano wasn't a good coach, but we have no talent. Not even Belichick could coach this team to the playoffs.






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    Nice points. I'm not against Ireland. Neither am I against the trade of Marshall and Davis. Saying that, I really think the jury is still out on Jeff. He has missed some elite talent in his time running the draft and that concerns me. You've got to hit on the elite guys. He got it right with Jake Long, but should have drafted Earl Thomas instead of trading down for more picks. Clay Matthews was there when Ireland drafted Vontae Davis. He missed on a number of top wide receivers. I know every team misses and you have to factor that in. But again I'm not overly confident that Ireland will get it right with all the extra picks.
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    You cant have a roster full of "meh I guess he alright" guys and expect to contend.




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    Regime change has killed this franchise more than anything. From Wanny to Saban, from Saban, to Cameron, from Cameron, to Sparano, from Sparano to Philbin.

    Nothing kills a teams progress more than instability. That means every 3-4 year we have a new coaching staff wanting to turn over players what don't fit their scheme, but may be hitting their prime, so we may never know good some players are.


    It takes discipline to not formulate opinions about something WITHOUT KNOWING ALL THE FACTS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 67Stang View Post
    In 5 years, we don't have a receiver that would be a number 3 on most teams except Bess who is a slot receiver, not a good number one or two. Our DBs just went from ok to bad. Sean Smith is our best corner LMAO! We still have Incognito in the starting line up after 2 years...how many times has he almost got the QB killed with complete wiffs at the line? We still have no legit pass rusher besides Wake. Fasano would be the 3rd TE on most teams and still drops the ball way too much. Our Right tackle (number 2 pick) is being pushed around like he is on roller skates....the list goes on and on and it is not new stuff, it is the same crap over and over again that isn't being addressed. Seriously, this dude has got to go! He will probably pull some crap out of his butt to swing a wide receiver and everyone will be on his nuts again....but in his tenure we have not got better. We were a better team at the end of last year than now, save maybe QB. That is sad and unacceptable!
    Stang, I can't have a sensible convo with you on the state of the team, because you've gone so far off the deep end, and until we return back to prominence on a yearly basis, we will continue to be on the opposite side of the spectrum. But Ill give it a try, here goes nothing.

    1.In 5 years, we don't have a receiver that would be a number 3. This is somewhat miss leading, because we had a number 1 wide receiver for two years, he was just a headcase, and our #1 Wide is currently nursing a calf injury. But still our WR receiver position base on pre-season has look pathetic. If you think Davone Bess and Brian Hartline would not find playing time on some other teams, that's your right.

    And correct me if I'm wrong did we not end up in the top 10 in the league with over 60 completions of 20-plus yards with this bunch of misfits on offense? And this stat is a little misleading because Marshall did account for 20 of those, but Hartline, Fasano, Bess, Clay and Bush accounted for the other 40. That's 67% of our big playmakers still remain on the team. We also manage 13 passes of 30-plus yards, spread out among six players. And Reggie Bush, signed to be the home-run threat the Dolphins lacked the previous year, had four rushes of 28-plus yards.

    2. "how many times has he almost got the QB killed with complete wiffs at the line?"
    Left guard Richie Incognito has been typically steady - Pro Football Focus ranks him 17th among all guards, with positive grades in run and pass blocking. Now the goal is always to number one, but 17 out of 64 starting guard is not bad, especially if your starting running back leads the league in YPC at 5.0. This is not as bad as you are making it out to be, But if you think it is, that's your call.

    Furthermore, Incognito started 15 games at right guard and was instrumental in helping Reggie Bush surpass the 1,000-yard rushing mark. Moreover, Incognito allowed only one sack—a vast improvement from the five he yielded in 2010—and was flagged for a modest six penalties. Now what was that you were saying about getting the QB killed with complete wiffs at the line ?? Yeah I'm a homer for stating facts.

    3.Sean Smith is our best corner LMAO!. Yeah, ill give you Sean Smith. Pro Football Focus charged Smith with five TD passes allowed in 2011, and a 90.8 QB rating in his coverage. That's just not good enough We shall see if he improves this year or not. But some positive signs are starting to show for him. It was noticeable that the Falcons offense was targeting the side of the field away from Sean Smith, who had a relatively quiet night at left corner. Smith was only targeted once the entire game, although one other target would have come but for a batted pass, and on that play he broke on a slant by Roddy White to break up the pass. After some mighty struggles in 2011 and with former No. 1 corner Vontae Davis in the doghouse, Smith needs to step up and on the evidence of this game, he has. Smith was also active as a support player on defense, both in run defense–registering a pair of tackles, highlighted by a tackle for loss on a fourth-down stop–and making tackles in coverage when receivers got away from primary coverage. At his size, and with his athleticism, Smith has the potential to be a crucial player for the Miami defense if he continues to show form like this.

    Now Richard Marshall was the 8th best rated Corner F.A. on the market. He lead the league in tackles for Cornerbacks. Key Stat: Allowed 394 receiving yards in 2011, 95 of which came on one play. Marshall was the third corner for the first half of the season and didn’t start for Arizona until Week 9, but after getting the starting spot, he recorded all five of his best games of the season. Marshall was only thrown at 54 times all season, but even so, allowing only 28 receptions represents an impressive 51.9% mark.

    So if you want to act like Smith and Marshall are garbage again that's your call, but I would have to disagree.

    4. Fasano would be the 3rd TE on most teams and still drops the ball way too much. Well considering he is one if not the best rated passing T.E. in the league, and he caught nearly every pass thrown his way last year, I know alot of people that would disagree with that statement, but again, that's your call, that's how you see, because no matter how much the evidence prove otherwise, that's your story in you are sticking with it. With (12) +20 yds catches last year, I would say that's pretty good for a blocking Tight End, than again what the do I know, I'm just making **** up. He ranked #15 in tight end's with more total value (DYAR) and 9th in tight end with more value per play DVOA. And you know what majority of the TE's ranked of head of him have, with the exception of Maybe Cook or Chandler? A top 10 Elite QB throwing them the damn ball. So where to you get this logic that he would be 3rd TE on most teams is beyond me.And you know what majority of the TE's ranked of head of him have, with the exception of Maybe Cook or Chandler? A top 10 Elite QB throwing them the damn ball.

    Furthermore, What he consistently does well are the things that don’t often show up on first glance. It’s being able to go head-to-head with an excellent defensive end like Ray Edwards and block him out of a play like he did in week two. Or taking on Marcus Stroud one-on-one and putting him in his place in a manner that belies the size difference. His play against larger defensive linemen is such that is should come as no surprise that he rarely struggles when matched up with linebackers and defensive backs. It’s this that makes Fasano such a superstar.

    Entering year six, he’s unlikely to break out and be the next big thing at the tight end spot when it comes to receiving, but he’s more than capable there as evidenced by an ability to pick up consistent yardage and find the end zone. The real shame, as we often write, is that tight ends don’t usually get the praise they are due when they excel at blocking.

    In a game where top tight ends spend just as much time blocking as running routes, it’s a hugely important role. So, while there are no official stats for it, players like Anthony Fasano will continue to excel at their jobs and nobody may know it.

    5. Our Right tackle (number 2 pick) is being pushed around like he is on roller skates. Yea I'll give you this as well, but if you read my post carefully, I already mentioned him. And I don't know when it was safe to label a 2nd Round draft pick a bust before he even plays a full season worth of football, but again. Facts don't matter..
    Last edited by CRAZYDOLFAN305; 08-27-2012 at 04:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYDOLFAN305 View Post
    Stang, I can have a sensible convo with you on the state of the team, because you've gone so far off the deep end, and until we return back to prominence on a yearly basis, we will continue to be on the opposite side of the spectrum. But Ill give it a try, here goes nothing.

    1.In 5 years, we don't have a receiver that would be a number 3. This is somewhat miss leading, because we had a number wide receiver for two years, he was just a headcase, and our #1 Wide is currently nursing a calf injury. But still our WR receiver position base on pre-season has look pathetic. If you think Davone Bess and Brian Hartline would not find playing time on some other teams, that's your right.
    And correct me if I'm wrong did we not end up in the top 10 in the league with over 60 completions of 20-plus yards with this bunch of misfits on offense? And this stat is a little misleading because Marshall did account for 20 of those, but Hartline, Fasano, Bess, and Bush accounted for the other 40. That's 67% of our big playmakers still remain on the team. They also have 13 passes of 30-plus yards, spread out among six players. And Reggie Bush, signed to be the home-run threat the Dolphins lacked last year, has four rushes of 28-plus yards.

    2. "how many times has he almost got the QB killed with complete wiffs at the line?"
    Left guard Richie Incognito has been typically steady - Pro Football Focus ranks him 17th among all guards, with positive grades in run and pass blocking. Now the goal is always to number one, but 17 out of 64 starting guard is not bad, especially if your starting running back leads the league in YPC at 5.0. This is not as bad as you are making it out to be, But if you think it is, that your call.

    Furthermore, Incognito started 15 games at right guard and was instrumental in helping Reggie Bush surpass the 1,000-yard rushing mark. Moreover, Incognito allowed only one sack—a vast improvement from the five he yielded in 2010—and was flagged for a modest six penalties. Now what that you were saying about getting the QB killed with complete wiffs at the line ?? Yeah I'm a homer for stating facts.

    3.Sean Smith is our best corner LMAO!. Yeah, ill give you Sean Smith. Pro Football Focus charged Smith with five TD passes allowed in 2011, and a 90.8 QB rating in his coverage. That's just not good enough We shall see if he improves this year or not.

    4. Fasano would be the 3rd TE on most teams and still drops the ball way too much. Well considering he is one if not the best rated passing T.E. in the league, and he caught nearly every pass thrown his way last year, I know alot of people that would disagree with that statement, but again, that's your call, that's how you see, because no matter how much the evidence prove otherwise, that's your story in you are sticking with it. With (12) +20 yds catches last year, I would say that's pretty good for a blocking Tight End, than again what the do I know, I'm just making **** up. He ranked #15 in tight end's with more total value (DYAR) and 9th in tight end with more value per play DVOA. And you know what majority of the TE's ranked of head of him have, with the exception of Maybe Cook or Chandler? A top 10 Elite QB throwing them the damn ball. So where to you get this logic that he would be 3rd TE on most teams is beyond me.And you know what majority of the TE's ranked of head of him have, with the exception of Maybe Cook or Chandler? A top 10 Elite QB throwing them the damn ball.

    Furthermore, What he consistently does well are the things that don’t often show up on first glance. It’s being able to go head-to-head with an excellent defensive end like Ray Edwards and block him out of a play like he did in week two. Or taking on Marcus Stroud one-on-one and putting him in his place in a manner that belies the size difference. His play against larger defensive linemen is such that is should come as no surprise that he rarely struggles when matched up with linebackers and defensive backs. It’s this that makes Fasano such a superstar.

    Entering year six, he’s unlikely to break out and be the next big thing at the tight end spot when it comes to receiving, but he’s more than capable there as evidenced by an ability to pick up consistent yardage and find the end zone. The real shame, as we often write, is that tight ends don’t usually get the praise they are due when they excel at blocking.

    In a game where top tight ends spend just as much time blocking as running routes, it’s a hugely important role. So, while there are no official stats for it, players like Anthony Fasano will continue to excel at their jobs and nobody may know it.

    5. Our Right tackle (number 2 pick) is being pushed around like he is on roller skates. Yea I'll give you this to, but if you read my post carefully I already mentioned him. And I don't when it was safe to label a 2nd Round draft pick a bust before he even plays a full season worth of football, but than again. Facts don't matter..
    Good stuff, but I am thinking people round here are not going to like you allowing stats to get in the way of opinion...
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