What I find really tiresome is you dimwits suggesting people "don't know football" because they place value on winning. It's so damn backwards. I don't know how to break this to you champ but I have no interest in "talking football" with you if that gibberish you spewed at me in some attempt at an attack is what you think discussion is. I have an extremely low opinion of just about all the apologists on this site. Anytime I'm drawn into a conversation with one of you, it's about as meaningful to me as talking politics with the stuttering mope who bags my groceries.