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Thread: A Jobs Report Conspiracy?

  1. -21
    phinfan3411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irish fin fan View Post
    When the facts don't match what your agenda then question the facts. I believe we are on a decline to the dark ages if the ultra right get their way. Ignorant people are perfect for their manipulation. The Nazis have returned.

    When are the old republicans who will bargain and compromise for the sake of the country going to return. Bring them back and give us independents a real choice between two candidates in the polling both.
    You're an independent??

    Hey...i've been wrong before, but you do not seem like an independent.
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  2. -22
    phins_4_ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    No.

    This is a bunch of mumbo jumbo that obscures what is OBVIOUS, which is that when people invoke the Nazis, or compare other people to Nazis, or compare some political position to Nazism, they are invoking Nazi Germany and all that entails.

    The comparison -- in irish fin fan's example, of someone trying to gin up a job's report conspiracy -- is glib, and stupid, and utterly ****ing ridiculous. It trivializes not just genocide but world ****ing war.

    Spoken as a liberal who hates the right wing.
    You are much better than that. I know that.
    Don't make your assumption a fact. You don't know and you can't know if Irish was trying to invoke Nazi Germany with that comment.

    If that comment is glib, stupid and utterly ****ing ridiculous I leave for others to decide.

    I find it utterly ridiculous though to trash Irish for using a political ideology while the right is throwing around the words socialism and communism freely. I don't see your uproar there.

    Germany used Nazism in a way the former USSR used the word socialism. In both countries killing for political purpose was on the daily agenda. In both countries millions of people died in an ideological , domestic war. What took in the USSR decades happened in Germany in a relative short span. Neither was politically what they claimed to be.
    Americans don't know any socialism or communism unless it is associated with countries (regardless if they are or not) like Cuba, the former USSR, maybe Venezuela, the former North Vietnam and North Korea. Socialism and communism in the minds of Americans is indoctrination, imprisonment, killing for political purposes, no free speech, no human rights, no justice.
    If - under your assumption that Irish was automatically invoking Nazi Germany because America doesn't know any better - a right winger uses the words 'socialist', 'socialism', 'communist' and 'communism' to describe a liberal and/or the President why aren't you outraged then?
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  3. -23
    Spesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    You are much better than that. I know that.
    Don't make your assumption a fact. You don't know and you can't know if Irish was trying to invoke Nazi Germany with that comment.

    If that comment is glib, stupid and utterly ****ing ridiculous I leave for others to decide.

    I find it utterly ridiculous though to trash Irish for using a political ideology while the right is throwing around the words socialism and communism freely. I don't see your uproar there.

    Germany used Nazism in a way the former USSR used the word socialism. In both countries killing for political purpose was on the daily agenda. In both countries millions of people died in an ideological , domestic war. What took in the USSR decades happened in Germany in a relative short span. Neither was politically what they claimed to be.
    Americans don't know any socialism or communism unless it is associated with countries (regardless if they are or not) like Cuba, the former USSR, maybe Venezuela, the former North Vietnam and North Korea. Socialism and communism in the minds of Americans is indoctrination, imprisonment, killing for political purposes, no free speech, no human rights, no justice.
    If - under your assumption that Irish was automatically invoking Nazi Germany because America doesn't know any better - a right winger uses the words 'socialist', 'socialism', 'communist' and 'communism' to describe a liberal and/or the President why aren't you outraged then?
    We object to it all the time on here. I went round for round with a guy in the two cents thread about it, which culminated in him losing his mind in the anything goes thread. I was pretty proud of that to be honest, it was highly amusing.

    Believe it or not, this part of Finheaven isnt intended for finger pointing and name calling. Its made for discussions. Granted, name calling and finger pointing have become the norm, but when it gets out of hand people get banned. Why anyone wants to become the next SnakeOilSalesman or CashinFist is beyond me.

    Throwing around names like Nazi, Socialist, or Communist is not for discussional purposes. Its to make people angry and defensive, which makes rational discussions impossible. How you choose to deal with those intellectually incapable of doing anything but that is your own prerogative. Personally, i recommend mockery. This is just my lay opinion, im not a mod and cant make policy. That said, all of it is getting really tiring and the Anything Goes thread is getting less and less use for its intended purpose. To me, the solution to both problems is obvious.
    "I'm not here to be a distraction," Pouncey said.
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10...ogical-testing
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  4. -24
    irish fin fan's Avatar
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    A Jobs Report Conspiracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by phinfan3411 View Post
    You're an independent??

    Hey...i've been wrong before, but you do not seem like an independent.
    To you I would not be considered middle of the road because you are just way over to the extreme right. I considered voting for McCann at one point. That ended when he choose Palin as his running mate. I would consider myself liberal on some issues, conservative on others.
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  5. -25
    irish fin fan's Avatar
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    A Jobs Report Conspiracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    No.

    This is a bunch of mumbo jumbo that obscures what is OBVIOUS, which is that when people invoke the Nazis, or compare other people to Nazis, or compare some political position to Nazism, they are invoking Nazi Germany and all that entails.

    The comparison -- in irish fin fan's example, of someone trying to gin up a job's report conspiracy -- is glib, and stupid, and utterly ****ing ridiculous. It trivializes not just genocide but world ****ing war.

    Spoken as a liberal who hates the right wing.
    No, I draw attention to it because during the rise of the fascists they would throw facts into the waste bin when it suited them and draw up their own version of history. Quite appealing to the masses when they were/are in economic misery.
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  6. -26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    We object to it all the time on here. I went round for round with a guy in the two cents thread about it, which culminated in him losing his mind in the anything goes thread. I was pretty proud of that to be honest, it was highly amusing.

    Believe it or not, this part of Finheaven isnt intended for finger pointing and name calling. Its made for discussions. Granted, name calling and finger pointing have become the norm, but when it gets out of hand people get banned. Why anyone wants to become the next SnakeOilSalesman or CashinFist is beyond me.

    Throwing around names like Nazi, Socialist, or Communist is not for discussional purposes. Its to make people angry and defensive, which makes rational discussions impossible. How you choose to deal with those intellectually incapable of doing anything but that is your own prerogative. Personally, i recommend mockery. This is just my lay opinion, im not a mod and cant make policy. That said, all of it is getting really tiring and the Anything Goes thread is getting less and less use for its intended purpose. To me, the solution to both problems is obvious.
    I do agree with you on that. And I don't throw anything like that around. I was also not defending Irish on using the 'Nazi'-term but simply pointing out that he did not say Nazi Germany nor do we know if he intended to make that comparison.
    IMO besides throwing around terms like socialist, communist, Nazi and whatever the misquoting, using partial quotes or adding false information to somebody's post or using assumptions on someone's intention is throwing discussions into the crap hole just as well.

    I personally don't care if any of these terms are being thrown around. Someone could call me a Nazi, a socialist, a communist or whatever. I have a thick skin and when people call me these things I know they run out of arguments and I just simply smile.

    Now if your last sentence is indicating that you would/could leave (I am assuming) I put the virtual chain on you and tie you up here. No way Jose.
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  7. -27
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    You don't know and you can't know if Irish was trying to invoke Nazi Germany with that comment.
    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever
    Germany used Nazism in a way the former USSR used the word socialism.
    You don't seem to know very much about the Nazis or the history of Nazism.

    Nazism is synonymous with Germany because it was invented there. Originally the Nazis were simply one of many political parties in Germany and were called the German Workers Party. But in the aftermath of the humiliation of WWI, their brand of virulent nationalism struck a chord with the German public, and with Hitler as their inspirational leader began to gather steam in the 1920s.

    It was Hitler himself who changed the name of the German Workers Party to the National Socialist German Workers Party, the German name for which was abbreviated NSDAP, or Nazi for short.

    So you see what I mean by this all being a very silly argument you're making? When you reference the Nazis, people do not sit there and wonder what that means. It's clear. Even irish fin fan hasn't thrown his weight behind suggestion of yours that he could have been talking about any number of other Nazis.

    If - under your assumption that Irish was automatically invoking Nazi Germany because America doesn't know any better - a right winger uses the words 'socialist', 'socialism', 'communist' and 'communism' to describe a liberal and/or the President why aren't you outraged then?
    Because it's not equivalent. Socialism is a political philosophy. What happened in Russia, in China, in Cambodia and in several other places was an obvious and deliberate adaptation of that idea (which had been adapted into Marxism and then into Marxism-Leninism) that took many forms in many different countries.

    When a right winger says Obama is a socialist, can anybody really be so dense as to assume they're only referring to Stalism, for instance, and not the quite different Maoism, which was different again from the Khymer Rogue, or Mussolini, or Castro, or Tito, or the various Kims of North Korea?

    It's vague. That's why people when people hear "socialism" or "communism", what they think of is a totalitarian nanny state, without property rights, ruled by a cult of personality. That's what they assume about Obama, not that he's going to kill everyone who wears glasses (since that implies you have an education) as the Khymer Rogue did.

    Nazism, on the other hand, refers to one country, with one philosophy, that is guilty of many clearly defined acts, including genocide. If you refer to it, you invoke not just a philosophy but those acts. The same would be true of calling someone a Stalinist, which also refers to a particular country at a particular time and therefore particular acts. To compare such unspeakable atrocities to a conspiracy theory about a jobs report is ridiculous. It's ignorant. It demeans history.
    Last edited by TheWalrus; 10-07-2012 at 03:45 AM.
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  8. -28
    Spesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    I do agree with you on that. And I don't throw anything like that around. I was also not defending Irish on using the 'Nazi'-term but simply pointing out that he did not say Nazi Germany nor do we know if he intended to make that comparison.
    IMO besides throwing around terms like socialist, communist, Nazi and whatever the misquoting, using partial quotes or adding false information to somebody's post or using assumptions on someone's intention is throwing discussions into the crap hole just as well.

    I personally don't care if any of these terms are being thrown around. Someone could call me a Nazi, a socialist, a communist or whatever. I have a thick skin and when people call me these things I know they run out of arguments and I just simply smile.

    Now if your last sentence is indicating that you would/could leave (I am assuming) I put the virtual chain on you and tie you up here. No way Jose.
    Eh? I suggested going into the Anything Goes Thread(and screaming about bullcrap in there).

    But if that is some sort of objection i will say then: socialist. Challenged declared, go for that thread and rage.
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  9. -29
    Spesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irish fin fan View Post
    No, I draw attention to it because during the rise of the fascists they would throw facts into the waste bin when it suited them and draw up their own version of history. Quite appealing to the masses when they were/are in economic misery.
    Socialist.
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  10. -30
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    The only difference between communism ans fascism is semantics.

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