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Thread: Obama Says He Wants to Debate Civil Liberties With Romney LOL!!!!!

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    Dolphins9954's Avatar
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    Obama Says He Wants to Debate Civil Liberties With Romney LOL!!!!!

    During last night's campaign speech at the Ritz-Carlton in Los Angeles, President Obama said:
    So on every issue domestically we’ve got differences, and I haven’t even—we haven’t talked about the fact that my opponent feels comfortable with Washington making decisions about women’s health care that women, Michelle tells me, are perfectly capable of making themselves. (Laughter and applause.)
    We haven’t talked about what's at stake with respect to the Supreme Court. We haven’t talked about what's at stake with respect to civil liberties. And obviously there's a lot at stake internationally. And an opponent who calls me ending the war in Iraq "tragic," or suggests that somehow we should stay longer in Afghanistan has a very different world view, different perspective.
    Let's put aside for a minute that Obama rejected the FDA's science-based recommendation to allow girls under the age of 17 over-the-counter access to emergency contraception; that a Republican-appointed Supreme Court justice saved Obamacare; and that Obama's "different world view" manifests in funding (and directing) a Mexican drug war that's claimed 60,000 lives, bombing an incalculable number of Muslim civilians, and lying about a terrorist attack on U.S. soil.
    Let's instead just focus on this: "We haven’t talked about what's at stake with respect to civil liberties."
    "If Obama wants to discuss civil liberties, he should be held accountable for the obliteration of the First, Fourth, and Fifth amendments occurring under his watch, if not under his direction,"writes Jesselyn Radack, National Security & Human Rights Director for the Government Accountability Project. If Radack were moderating, Obama would have to answer for his secret kill list, expanded surveillance, his assassination of American citizens, secret laws created by the PATRIOT Act, and his war on both whistleblowers and journalists.
    He should also be asked to answer for at least a few of the following:


    • Why does Obama's Justice Department continue to raid medical marijuana dispensaries, and to ignore the will of voters in states where medical marijuana is legal?
    • Why has he condemned police brutality during the Arab Spring and the Iranian uprising, but failed to condemn a single act of police brutatlity in the United States, particularly the murder of Kelly Thomas or the torture of Nick Christie?
    • Why does he allow the Department of Defense to distributemilitary grade weapons and equipment to local police departments?
    • Why has he done nothing to reunite the roughly 5,100 children ripped from their deported parents and placed in American foster care?
    • Why has he done nothing to curtail the frequent humiliations and abusesAmericans are subjected to by the Transportation Security Administration?
    • Why has he allowed his Justice Department to defend the right of DEA agents to shackle young children at gunpoint?
    • Why did he give himself--and by extension, future presidents--the leeway necessary to indefinitely detain Americans?
    • When he reduced the sentencing disparity between cocaine and crack, why did he reduce it from 100-to-1 to 18-to-1, and not just 1-to-1?
    • Why has he commuted only one federal drug sentence in nearly four years?
    • Why has he permitted his FDA to conduct armed raids on Amish farms that sell raw milk?
    • Why did his party eliminate nearly all mentions of civil liberties from its 2012 platform, and in the process, soften the party's long-stated opposition to torture?
    • Why has privileged the regulatory powers of the EPA over the due process rights of American citizens?
    http://reason.com/blog/2012/10/09/ob...ate-civil-libe



    Kudos to Obama for wanting a debate about civil liberties. Too bad he sucks at it and so does Romney. One thing both parties totally agree on.....They hate our freedoms.





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    Spesh's Avatar
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    Sad thing is Obama would probably win that debate. By a large margin.

    As angry as people are at Obama's job with civil liberties, i cant recall Republicans objecting there is to much, only that there isnt enough. You know, except for money or healthcare. Then its big government take over.
    "Ignorance is not an excuse" were the words Goodell used when describing why those involved in the Saints bounty scandal would not avoid punishment.
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    Dolphins9954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Sad thing is Obama would probably win that debate. By a large margin.

    As angry as people are at Obama's job with civil liberties, i cant recall Republicans objecting there is to much, only that there isnt enough. You know, except for money or healthcare. Then its big government take over.
    How???

    Besides the now pro-gay marriage rhetoric from Obama. How are they any different??

    Patriot Act, NDAA, Warrantless Wiretaps and Searches, Killing Americans without due process, Drug War, Gitmo, Torture/Rendition and going after whistleblowers. I don't see how you can say Obama will win this debate by a long shot. The fact is Obama is just as much a threat to our civil liberties as Bush/Romney no matter how many happy gay people there are.
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    They should invite Ron Paul to moderate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphins9954 View Post
    How???

    Besides the now pro-gay marriage rhetoric from Obama. How are they any different??

    Patriot Act, NDAA, Warrantless Wiretaps and Searches, Killing Americans without due process, Drug War, Gitmo, Torture/Rendition and going after whistleblowers. I don't see how you can say Obama will win this debate by a long shot. The fact is Obama is just as much a threat to our civil liberties as Bush/Romney no matter how many happy gay people there are.
    Is there any civil liberty issue where you prefer Romney's position to Obama's? Not making an accusation in the form of a question. Legitimately curious.
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    Spesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphins9954 View Post
    How???

    Besides the now pro-gay marriage rhetoric from Obama. How are they any different??

    Patriot Act, NDAA, Warrantless Wiretaps and Searches, Killing Americans without due process, Drug War, Gitmo, Torture/Rendition and going after whistleblowers. I don't see how you can say Obama will win this debate by a long shot. The fact is Obama is just as much a threat to our civil liberties as Bush/Romney no matter how many happy gay people there are.
    What could Romney argue with?

    If both candidates are exactly the same but one candidate wants to increase drone strikes and regulate marriage and abortions, doesnt that mean the candidate who uses drone strikes less and is against regulating marriage and abortions wins?

    Theres very little Romney could say other then try and convince people increasing all the things you listed is necessary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    Is there any civil liberty issue where you prefer Romney's position to Obama's? Not making an accusation in the form of a question. Legitimately curious.
    None. He's no different or worse than Obama. A civil liberties debate with Obama and Romney is one where we all lose. Both these guys believe government trumps liberty on every turn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    What could Romney argue with?

    If both candidates are exactly the same but one candidate wants to increase drone strikes and regulate marriage and abortions, doesnt that mean the candidate who uses drone strikes less and is against regulating marriage and abortions wins?

    Theres very little Romney could say other then try and convince people increasing all the things you listed is necessary.

    It's like having a debate about which one is better.....Hanging or Firing Squad. Obama or Romney have no problem trappling our liberties. It'a a sad state of affairs when these 2 represent our best hope for freedoms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphins9954 View Post
    It's like having a debate about which one is better.....Hanging or Firing Squad. Obama or Romney have no problem trappling our liberties. It'a a sad state of affairs when these 2 represent our best hope for freedoms.
    That's not the analogy I would choose, since both hanging and fire squad produce exactly the same results.

    I think your points on this issue are generally well considered -- neither of them are good on civil liberties -- but at least in the case of abortion rights and marriage rights I don't think it can be argued that Obama's and Romney's positions are the same. Perhaps you consider these issues to be of relatively low importance but I think Spesh's basic point is valid here.
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