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Thread: Another Instance of Union Impropriety

  1. -11
    MoFinz's Avatar
    Uwe Von Schamann's Bastard Son

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    I agree. We are posting on a message board about a football team. Member of that football team give up some of their rights when they sign their contracts. They are compensated by getting stupid amounts of cash. Hell, i give up some rights to post on this message board. Same with this case.

    Its very difficult to get the context of a story from a 22 second youtube video. But on general principle, i dont particularly appreciate what they pulled. That said, i understand there is certain things they have to do to stay in the union.

    Giving up the right to speak out or participate in certain activities is worlds different than being made to support politicians publicly that you do not support personally Monetary sanctions for failing to support an agenda that has no direct effect on your work conditions is theft.


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  2. -12
    Spesh's Avatar
    8/31/14 Never Forget

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoFinz View Post
    Giving up the right to speak out or participate in certain activities is worlds different than being made to support politicians publicly that you do not support personally Monetary sanctions for failing to support an agenda that has no direct effect on your work conditions is theft.
    Couldnt see the entire title of the video. Went ahead and clicked on the youtube button to see alittle more of the context. My mistake.

    Yup, sleezy as hell. I objected when companies "insisted" their employees go to Romney rallies, i object to this union penalizing members who refused to support Warren. No one in a position of authority should attempt to influence the political, philosophical, religious leanings of those under their supervision.
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  3. -13
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoFinz View Post
    Free to resign a union? In what world? Have you had any experience with unions? I grew up in ow a union family, i know the good and the bad of unions. Taking money from you to protect your working rights is one thing, but taking money out of your families mouths if you dont promote a political candidate you dont believe in or even object to is theft and coercion.

    Try something more concrete than saying people should be slaves to their union bosses. I doubt you would find the same rules applied to you at your job whatever that may be, to be as tolerable as you pretend to be here
    You are free to resign the union. You just won't be able to find work in whatever area that union works in.

    Once again, I don't like this sort of thing but I don't think it's coercion if you knew going in what the parameters are. I know I'm repeating myself, but am I being coerced into only painting my house certain colors approved by the association if I knew before I bought the house that such rules existed? In a business situation of the kind Spesh is referencing they likely wouldn't be telling you in the interview process about the necessity to campaign for certain candidates or issues. The "condition" therefore would be after the fact, which to me changes the situation completely.

    Your rhetoric about this being tantamount to slavery is ridiculous. Let's keep the discussion on planet Earth, if we can.
    Last edited by TheWalrus; 10-12-2012 at 12:19 AM.
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  4. -14
    WVDolphan's Avatar
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    I cant believe I completely agree with the Walrus in this thread. Am I becoming a socialist? Wtf.
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  5. -15
    Spesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVDolphan View Post
    I cant believe I completely agree with the Walrus in this thread. Am I becoming a socialist? Wtf.
    Yes.
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  6. -16
    phinfan3411's Avatar
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    So, if you want to work, you have to do whatever the mighty union tells you to do...

    What a GREAT country.

    In this area that absolutely includes rigging votes, elections, bribing officials to put helpful verbage in legislation killing independent competition, putting sand in independent's machinery gas tanks, threats etc.

    By the way, none of the above is made up, it all comes from our local newspaper as about once a year a local union is on trial for usually about the same thing.

    They have made it so all of our county construction is only really open to union construction companies, it might be state also but i'm not sure. This lead the News to write about how much these unions have cost the taxpayers over the years...when they wrote it i could not believe my eyes, must have been a moderate reporter.
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  7. -17
    MoFinz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    You are free to resign the union. You just won't be able to find work in whatever area that union works in.

    Once again, I don't like this sort of thing but I don't think it's coercion if you knew going in what the parameters are. I know I'm repeating myself, but am I being coerced into only painting my house certain colors approved by the association if I knew before I bought the house that such rules existed? In a business situation of the kind Spesh is referencing they likely wouldn't be telling you in the interview process about the necessity to campaign for certain candidates or issues. The "condition" therefore would be after the fact, which to me changes the situation completely.

    Your rhetoric about this being tantamount to slavery is ridiculous. Let's keep the discussion on planet Earth, if we can.
    Of course you're right, what was I thinking? When you join a union, being forced to join a political process you neither endorse nor has any direct effect on your job or the ability to do it, is perfectly inline with your constitutional freedoms and in no way is akin to slavery. It's more like indentured servitude isn't it. It boggles the mind to actually think some people actually find this behavior acceptable. This isn't about some home owners association where the covenant covers everyone, this is about a union covering one political party over another and your livelihood to force you to enforce their political agenda over yours. I'll ask the question, what does filling up a political rally have to do with carpentry or brick laying.
    Also, did you notice the guy say he wasn't being paid but he would be fined if he didnt participate? In a union, you don't do anything without being paid. Just doesn't happen. Unless your shop boss tells you to for the good of the unions political coffers huh?
    If thats your earth, i gotta ask. How is Bizzaro Superman these days
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  8. -18
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoFinz View Post
    Of course you're right, what was I thinking? When you join a union, being forced to join a political process you neither endorse nor has any direct effect on your job or the ability to do it, is perfectly inline with your constitutional freedoms and in no way is akin to slavery. It's more like indentured servitude isn't it. It boggles the mind to actually think some people actually find this behavior acceptable. This isn't about some home owners association where the covenant covers everyone, this is about a union covering one political party over another and your livelihood to force you to enforce their political agenda over yours. I'll ask the question, what does filling up a political rally have to do with carpentry or brick laying.
    Though it's hardly the point, it's pretty easy to see how it can. Different political parties are bound to have different ideas about urban development generally and certain projects specifically. The livelihood of a carpenter or bricklayer is best enhanced by the party or politician that believes in infrastructure improvements.

    The key issue is this one, which you are still dodging. True or false, are you aware before you join a union that you are going to be required to support political causes that support the union?

    If thats your earth, i gotta ask. How is Bizzaro Superman these days
    You are truly a very silly person. Slavery, indentured servitude (which you clearly don't know anything about). I mean, c'mon. Try thinking for two seconds before you post something so reactionary and ridiculous.
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  9. -19
    MoFinz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    Though it's hardly the point, it's pretty easy to see how it can. Different political parties are bound to have different ideas about urban development generally and certain projects specifically. The livelihood of a carpenter or bricklayer is best enhanced by the party or politician that believes in infrastructure improvements.

    The key issue is this one, which you are still dodging. True or false, are you aware before you join a union that you are going to be required to support political causes that support the union?



    You are truly a very silly person. Slavery, indentured servitude (which you clearly don't know anything about). I mean, c'mon. Try thinking for two seconds before you post something so reactionary and ridiculous.

    LOL, you call me silly and ridicule my posts, then you dismiss me casually. C'mon man, you gotta bring better than that. You want me to produce evidence for your argument? Tell ya what, YOU go find me the union literature that states you have to go on your own time to support political figures that do not pertain to your job. You claim that a politician affects the job because of the policies they may bring. I defy you to show me a sitting politician that has done more to cost union jobs than the union officers that price themselves out of competitive bid jobs. I'll wait. I know it's a long trip back to Bizarro World.

    As far as being a silly person......didn't you admit you have no knowledge of unions? And here you are ridiculing someone that has a lifetime of first hand experience of unions in action. Must be nice to have been born omniscient. (That's probably a big word for you, which you clearly don't know anything about)
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  10. -20
    Valandui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    I'm not sure I see it as particularly democratic either but if you willingly join a group it seems to me you might be expected to perform certain duties even if you don't particularly enjoy them or be fined by that group. If you buy a house in certain neighborhoods, for example, you're expected to only paint your house certain colors and to maintain your lawn a certain way.

    The agreement to join the union or the neighborhood association means you implicitly acknowledge your duty to act in a certain way, even if it would not be your preference under different circumstances to act that way.

    Perhaps if there's a lawyer on the boards he or she can comment on it. But I can't see where there's an illegality at play, even if I agree with yours and DisturbedShifty's characterization of this sort of thing as distasteful.
    A lot of states force you to join a union if you want a job.

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