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Thread: Go Ahead, Give Me The Spin.

  1. -1
    CRAZYDOLFAN305's Avatar
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    Go Ahead, Give Me The Spin.

    Dispute the following facts, and tell me it's made up by the liberal media. I know in the conservative bubble you guys live in he's a marxist, socialist, yadadada.

    if you’re one of those folks who thinks President Obama is a “disappointment,” you haven’t been paying attention the last few years. And those of you who try to draw comparisons with the Bush Administration should put away the hallucinogens and have your memory checked. If you were in a coma for the eight Bush Years, I apologize and forgive you. But please join the real world. So far, this president has done most of what he said he would do if elected; imagine what he could have done by now if progressives had supported him and not given him a Congress that doesn’t look at him as if he’s the demon seed.

    Not only is he NOT a “disappointment,” he’s pretty much the opposite. And no, I don’t just say that because he took out Osama bin Laden, helped Libya determine their own destiny for the first time in a while, and because he seems able to handle international incidents without starting a new war. The guy does nearly everything we elect a president to do, and he doesn’t brag about it constantly.

    Is he perfect? No, he’s human. Does he deserve some criticism? I suppose, but I must admit I haven’t seen any complaints that were of based on anything having to do with the real world. One I can’t forgive him for is pulling Janet Napolitano out of Arizona. But the thing is, on balance, he’s mostly stellar. Besides, criticism about certain specific problems is one thing; taking on an overall “Obama sucks” meme not only has the potential to put Willard Romney into power, it’s also a lie. Just because you wanted a president who would give you a glitter-farting unicorn and didn’t quite get that doesn’t mean he’s not doing well at the job we hired him for.

    Legislative Prowess
    1. Within days after taking office, he signed an Executive Order ordering an audit of government contracts, and combating waste and abuse. http://1.usa.gov/dUvbu5

    Fiscal Responsibility

    2.Created the post of Chief Performance Officer, whose job it is to make operations more efficient to save the federal government money. http://n.pr/hcgBn1

    3.On his first full day, he froze White House salaries. http://on.msnbc.com/ewJUIx

    4.He appointed the first Federal Chief Information Officer to oversee federal IT spending. http://www.cio.gov

    5.He committed to phasing out unnecessary and outdated weapons systems, and also signed the Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act to stop waste, fraud and abuse in the defense procurement and contracting system. http://bit.ly/hOw1t1 http://bit.ly/fz8GAd

    6.Through an executive order, he created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform. http://bit.ly/hwKhKa

    I know you guys convenietnly forgot when he took office we where on the verge of a depression. But I'll try anyways.

    Improving the Economy, Preventing Depression

    7.He pushed through and signed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, otherwise known as “the stimulus package,” despite the fact that not one Republican voted for that bill. In addition, he launched recovery.gov, so that taxpayers could track spending from the Act. http://1.usa.gov/ibiFSs http://1.usa.gov/e3BJMk--- So instead of listening to FOX or Rush and depating the Dolphins, you can actually look at where all the money is being spent. Will you do that ? Of course not.

    8. In his first year, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act created and sustained 2.1 million jobs and stimulated the economy 3.5%. http://reut.rs/i46CEE

    9. He completed the massive TARP financial and banking rescue plan, and recovered virtually all of its costs. http://1.usa.gov/eA5jVS http://bit.ly/eCNrD6
    10.He oversaw the creation of more jobs in 2010 alone than Bush did in eight years. http://bit.ly/hrrnjY

    11. At the same time, the report marks the 31st straight month of private-sector job gains, a point Obama and his allies are certain to spotlight.

    12. Obama Now in Net Positive Territory on Job Growth. Bureau Of Labor Statistics: 5 Million Private-Sector Jobs Added Since February 2010. The Bureau of Labor Statistics' Current Employment Statistics (CES) survey found that in February 2010, the U.S. economy employed 106,773,000 people. In August of 2012 the survey found 111,400,000 people employed -- an increase of approximately 4.6 million. A preliminary revision released by the BLS in September, which incorporated more accurate state-level data, found that there were an additional 453,000 people employed in the private sector. The revision combined with the results of the August survey show that the U.S. economy has added over 5 million private sector jobs in the last 30 months.--- KEEP LIVING IN YOUR BUBBLE..

    13.He oversaw a bailout of General Motors that saved at least 1.4 million jobs, and put pressure on the company to change its practices, resulting in GM returning to its place as the top car company in the world. http://lat.ms/zIJuQx--#1 Car Selling Company In The World.

    14.He signed the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act giving the federal government more tools to investigate and prosecute fraud in every corner of the financial system. It also created a bipartisan Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission to investigate the financial fraud that led to the economic meltdown. http://abcn.ws/g18Fe7

    15.He signed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and Disclosure (CARD) Act, which was designed to protect consumers from unfair and deceptive credit card practices. http://1.usa.gov/gIaNcS

    16.He increased infrastructure spending after years of neglect. http://bit.ly/f77aOw

    17.He signed the Helping Families Save Their Homes Act, expanding on the Making Home Affordable Program to help millions of Americans avoid preventable foreclosures. The bill also provided $2.2 billion to help combat homelessness, and to stabilize the housing market. http://bit.ly/eEpLFn

    18.Through the Worker, Home Ownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009, he and Congressional Democrats provided tax credits to first-time home buyers, which helped the U.S. housing market recovery. http://bit.ly/dZgXXw http://bit.ly/gORYfL

    19.He initiated a $15 billion plan designed to encourage increased lending to small businesses.
    http://1.usa.gov/eu0u0b

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09...ith-citations/
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  2. -2
    TrojanFin's Avatar
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    Before you go wagging your finger at George W. Bush and blame him for the mess he left your guy, it's time for a brief history lesson.

    Clinton repeals Glass-Steagall Act in last year of office. It paved the ground work sub-prime lending by nullifying the separation of investment and commercial banking.

    In other words, mixing the commercial and investment banks functions caused banks to take too much risk with depositors' money.

    http://bizfinance.about.com/od/small...eagall-Act.htm

    Enter Barney Frank...

    In 2003, while the ranking minority member on the Financial Services Committee, Frank opposed a Bush administration proposal, in response to accounting scandals, for transferring oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac [...]to a new agency that would be created within the Treasury Department. The proposal, supported by the head of Fannie Mae, reflected the administration's belief that Congress "neither has the tools, nor the stature" for adequate oversight. Frank stated, "These two entities ...are not facing any kind of financial crisis ... The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."[47] In 2003, Frank also stated what has been called his "famous dice roll":[48] "I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness [in the regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac] that we have in the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Office of Thrift Supervision. I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidised housing."[49]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_Frank

    Then there's Chris Dodd...

    Dodd was involved in issues related to the federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac during the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis. [...] At the time, it was estimated that the federal government would need to spend $25 billion on a bailout of the firms.[40]
    During this period, Dodd denied rumors these firms were in financial crisis. He called the firms "fundamentally strong",[41] said they were in "sound situation" and "in good shape" and to "suggest they are in major trouble is not accurate."[42] In early September, after the firms continued to report huge losses,[43] Secretary Paulson announced a federal takeover of both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Dodd expressed skepticism of the action, which the Treasury estimated could cost as much as $200 billion.
    Dodd is the number one recipient in Congress of campaign funds from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.[44]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Dodd

    So failed oversight by Democratic leaders in Congress can be pointed at as the culprits for what would later be know as the subprime mortgage crisis. Let's see... and it looks as if Congress controlled both the House (Speaker of the House w/ Pelosi) and Senate (Senate majority leader w/ Reid) right before it really hit the fan starting in 2006. So the Progessive response is to blame Bush, even though he was pushing for an alternative proposal with more oversight.

    So how does this relate to Obama? He was one of the many that had pushed for subprime lending. .

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/03/wi...can-americans/

    Barack Obama used his status as a legal hired gun to sue Citibank to force them to give loans to poor minorities in Chicago.

    In other words, he sued a bank into creating subprime mortgages.

    Why did Citibank have to be forced into granting those loans? Because they weren't profitable — they were going to end in foreclosure. Subprime loans almost ended the financial system as we know it in 2008, after fueling a mortgage bubble that exploded with devastating effect on the economy. Obama was right there in the thick of it, helping to create the problem and undermine capitalism.

    http://communities.washingtontimes.c...-loans-lawyer/

    Obama was also part of the 2006-2008 Democratic controlled Senate I mentioned earlier. He had an opportunity to speak out if was so concerned, but a look at his voting record shows he preferred merely to be "present." So he didn't solve our problems then, and he certainly isn't solving them now.

    http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-v.../#.UIElX8WHJv4

    So let's take a brief look at Obama's promises or self-descriptions. This is by no means comprehensive... but gives you a general idea of the man's short-comings and failures.


    1. Obama was against gay marriage his whole life and now is for it. (Small clarification,...Obama was against gay marriage on the record in 96', then was for it in 04', against it in 08' and evolved to accept it in 2012. Ironic that those were all election years, huh?)
    2. He didn't want the individual mandate then put it in.
    3. He isn't a big spender.
    4. Unemployment won't go over 8%.
    5. He will fix the housing sector.
    6. He will fix the border.
    7. He will close Gitmo.
    8. He will win and end the Afgan war.
    9. Sitting down with dictators without precondition will make them love us more.
    10. He will cut the federal deficit in half.
    11. He will bring people together.
    12. He will end gridlock in Washington.
    13. He will not raise taxes on the middle class.
    14. He will get people working with 'shovel ready' jobs.
    15. He will curb global warming.
    16. He will restore America's prestige and honor across the globe.
    17. He will be the most transparent president ever.
    18. The healthcare debate will be on CSPAN.


    He's a failure with:

    - $16 trillion national deficit
    - scandals arising from the admin's handling of Benghazi and Fast & Furious
    - manipulating the unemployment numbers (see the admin's violation of WARN) to look re-electable
    - with his only solution is to simply create more government bloat through stimulus spending
    - failed investments in green energy spending to the tune of $90 billion (see Solyndra) + an energy secretary (Mr. Chu) who has admitted to purposely ramping-up gas prices to make green energy vehicles look more attractive
    - lastly an Obamacare policy that will create more overhead costs for businesses nationally and will lead to more massive layoffs, a decrease in choices and an increase in cost for private policies, and lastly an unwarranted 3.8% levied on all citizens (the mandate)

    I'm sure I could go on but why bother since you either get the point or you don't by now.
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  3. -3
    TrojanFin's Avatar
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    I realize the previous post is a bit long for some readers. So if you can't get through it, I'll provide you the cliff notes version in the form of Bill Whittle.



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  4. -4
    Dolphins9954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYDOLFAN305 View Post
    Dispute the following facts, and tell me it's made up by the liberal media. I know in the conservative bubble you guys live in he's a marxist, socialist, yadadada.

    if you’re one of those folks who thinks President Obama is a “disappointment,” you haven’t been paying attention the last few years. And those of you who try to draw comparisons with the Bush Administration should put away the hallucinogens and have your memory checked. If you were in a coma for the eight Bush Years, I apologize and forgive you. But please join the real world. So far, this president has done most of what he said he would do if elected; imagine what he could have done by now if progressives had supported him and not given him a Congress that doesn’t look at him as if he’s the demon seed.

    Not only is he NOT a “disappointment,” he’s pretty much the opposite. And no, I don’t just say that because he took out Osama bin Laden, helped Libya determine their own destiny for the first time in a while, and because he seems able to handle international incidents without starting a new war. The guy does nearly everything we elect a president to do, and he doesn’t brag about it constantly.

    Is he perfect? No, he’s human. Does he deserve some criticism? I suppose, but I must admit I haven’t seen any complaints that were of based on anything having to do with the real world. One I can’t forgive him for is pulling Janet Napolitano out of Arizona. But the thing is, on balance, he’s mostly stellar. Besides, criticism about certain specific problems is one thing; taking on an overall “Obama sucks” meme not only has the potential to put Willard Romney into power, it’s also a lie. Just because you wanted a president who would give you a glitter-farting unicorn and didn’t quite get that doesn’t mean he’s not doing well at the job we hired him for.

    Legislative Prowess
    1. Within days after taking office, he signed an Executive Order ordering an audit of government contracts, and combating waste and abuse. http://1.usa.gov/dUvbu5

    Fiscal Responsibility

    2.Created the post of Chief Performance Officer, whose job it is to make operations more efficient to save the federal government money. http://n.pr/hcgBn1

    3.On his first full day, he froze White House salaries. http://on.msnbc.com/ewJUIx

    4.He appointed the first Federal Chief Information Officer to oversee federal IT spending. http://www.cio.gov

    5.He committed to phasing out unnecessary and outdated weapons systems, and also signed the Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act to stop waste, fraud and abuse in the defense procurement and contracting system. http://bit.ly/hOw1t1 http://bit.ly/fz8GAd

    6.Through an executive order, he created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform. http://bit.ly/hwKhKa

    I know you guys convenietnly forgot when he took office we where on the verge of a depression. But I'll try anyways.

    Improving the Economy, Preventing Depression

    7.He pushed through and signed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, otherwise known as “the stimulus package,” despite the fact that not one Republican voted for that bill. In addition, he launched recovery.gov, so that taxpayers could track spending from the Act. http://1.usa.gov/ibiFSs http://1.usa.gov/e3BJMk--- So instead of listening to FOX or Rush and depating the Dolphins, you can actually look at where all the money is being spent. Will you do that ? Of course not.

    8. In his first year, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act created and sustained 2.1 million jobs and stimulated the economy 3.5%. http://reut.rs/i46CEE

    9. He completed the massive TARP financial and banking rescue plan, and recovered virtually all of its costs. http://1.usa.gov/eA5jVS http://bit.ly/eCNrD6
    10.He oversaw the creation of more jobs in 2010 alone than Bush did in eight years. http://bit.ly/hrrnjY

    11. At the same time, the report marks the 31st straight month of private-sector job gains, a point Obama and his allies are certain to spotlight.

    12. Obama Now in Net Positive Territory on Job Growth. Bureau Of Labor Statistics: 5 Million Private-Sector Jobs Added Since February 2010. The Bureau of Labor Statistics' Current Employment Statistics (CES) survey found that in February 2010, the U.S. economy employed 106,773,000 people. In August of 2012 the survey found 111,400,000 people employed -- an increase of approximately 4.6 million. A preliminary revision released by the BLS in September, which incorporated more accurate state-level data, found that there were an additional 453,000 people employed in the private sector. The revision combined with the results of the August survey show that the U.S. economy has added over 5 million private sector jobs in the last 30 months.--- KEEP LIVING IN YOUR BUBBLE..

    13.He oversaw a bailout of General Motors that saved at least 1.4 million jobs, and put pressure on the company to change its practices, resulting in GM returning to its place as the top car company in the world. http://lat.ms/zIJuQx--#1 Car Selling Company In The World.

    14.He signed the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act giving the federal government more tools to investigate and prosecute fraud in every corner of the financial system. It also created a bipartisan Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission to investigate the financial fraud that led to the economic meltdown. http://abcn.ws/g18Fe7

    15.He signed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and Disclosure (CARD) Act, which was designed to protect consumers from unfair and deceptive credit card practices. http://1.usa.gov/gIaNcS

    16.He increased infrastructure spending after years of neglect. http://bit.ly/f77aOw

    17.He signed the Helping Families Save Their Homes Act, expanding on the Making Home Affordable Program to help millions of Americans avoid preventable foreclosures. The bill also provided $2.2 billion to help combat homelessness, and to stabilize the housing market. http://bit.ly/eEpLFn

    18.Through the Worker, Home Ownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009, he and Congressional Democrats provided tax credits to first-time home buyers, which helped the U.S. housing market recovery. http://bit.ly/dZgXXw http://bit.ly/gORYfL

    19.He initiated a $15 billion plan designed to encourage increased lending to small businesses.
    http://1.usa.gov/eu0u0b

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09...ith-citations/





    "Politics is the Art of Looking for Trouble, Finding it Everywhere, Diagnosing it Incorrectly, and Applying the Wrong Remedies"
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  5. -5
    phins_4_ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanFin View Post
    Before you go wagging your finger at George W. Bush and blame him for the mess he left your guy, it's time for a brief history lesson.

    Clinton repeals Glass-Steagall Act in last year of office. It paved the ground work sub-prime lending by nullifying the separation of investment and commercial banking.



    http://bizfinance.about.com/od/small...eagall-Act.htm

    Enter Barney Frank...



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_Frank

    Then there's Chris Dodd...



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Dodd

    So failed oversight by Democratic leaders in Congress can be pointed at as the culprits for what would later be know as the subprime mortgage crisis. Let's see... and it looks as if Congress controlled both the House (Speaker of the House w/ Pelosi) and Senate (Senate majority leader w/ Reid) right before it really hit the fan starting in 2006. So the Progessive response is to blame Bush, even though he was pushing for an alternative proposal with more oversight.

    So how does this relate to Obama? He was one of the many that had pushed for subprime lending. .

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/03/wi...can-americans/



    http://communities.washingtontimes.c...-loans-lawyer/

    Obama was also part of the 2006-2008 Democratic controlled Senate I mentioned earlier. He had an opportunity to speak out if was so concerned, but a look at his voting record shows he preferred merely to be "present." So he didn't solve our problems then, and he certainly isn't solving them now.

    http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-v.../#.UIElX8WHJv4

    So let's take a brief look at Obama's promises or self-descriptions. This is by no means comprehensive... but gives you a general idea of the man's short-comings and failures.


    1. Obama was against gay marriage his whole life and now is for it. (Small clarification,...Obama was against gay marriage on the record in 96', then was for it in 04', against it in 08' and evolved to accept it in 2012. Ironic that those were all election years, huh?)
    2. He didn't want the individual mandate then put it in.
    3. He isn't a big spender.
    4. Unemployment won't go over 8%.
    5. He will fix the housing sector.
    6. He will fix the border.
    7. He will close Gitmo.
    8. He will win and end the Afgan war.
    9. Sitting down with dictators without precondition will make them love us more.
    10. He will cut the federal deficit in half.
    11. He will bring people together.
    12. He will end gridlock in Washington.
    13. He will not raise taxes on the middle class.
    14. He will get people working with 'shovel ready' jobs.
    15. He will curb global warming.
    16. He will restore America's prestige and honor across the globe.
    17. He will be the most transparent president ever.
    18. The healthcare debate will be on CSPAN.


    He's a failure with:

    - $16 trillion national deficit
    - scandals arising from the admin's handling of Benghazi and Fast & Furious
    - manipulating the unemployment numbers (see the admin's violation of WARN) to look re-electable
    - with his only solution is to simply create more government bloat through stimulus spending
    - failed investments in green energy spending to the tune of $90 billion (see Solyndra) + an energy secretary (Mr. Chu) who has admitted to purposely ramping-up gas prices to make green energy vehicles look more attractive
    - lastly an Obamacare policy that will create more overhead costs for businesses nationally and will lead to more massive layoffs, a decrease in choices and an increase in cost for private policies, and lastly an unwarranted 3.8% levied on all citizens (the mandate)

    I'm sure I could go on but why bother since you either get the point or you don't by now.
    I was able to read everything but it will take me a while to respond to this mostly garbage.

    Though while I was reading you used a post-filler to make it look more than it is and one thing quickly stuck out. Obama did not force any bank into giving loans to people who could not afford a mortgage. It is debunked many times and simply a rightish attempt to turn away responsibility. The reality of the case you are mentioning in the mid 90s can be read here:
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/loans.asp

    To 1.) Not true. He ran in 1996 supporting same sex marriage. He was for civil unions in 2004 and 2008 but he never was against the phrase 'same sex marriage'. As a matter of fact in 2008 he voted against the Marriage Defense Act in 2008. His personal opinion is that marriage should stay between a man and a woman but his political decision is independent from his personal opinion.
    Obama supported legalizing same-sex marriage when he first ran for the Illinois Senate in 1996,[33] was undecided about legalizing same-sex marriage when he ran for re-election to the Illinois Senate in 1998,[34] and supported civil unions but not same-sex marriage when he ran for the U.S. Senate in 2004 and for U.S. President in 2008.[33] Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment which would have defined marriage as between one man and one woman, but stated in a 2008 interview that he personally believes that marriage is "between a man and a woman" and that he is "not in favor of gay marriage."[35] He supports civil unions that would carry equal legal standing to that of marriage for same-sex couples, but believes that decisions about the title of marriage should be left to the states.[36][37][23] On May 9, 2012, Obama announced that he supported gay marriage, making him the first president in American history to support same-sex marriage while in office.[38]
    Obama has called for the repeal of the federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).[39]
    On May 15, 2008, in a statement in response to the ruling of the California Supreme Court in In re Marriage Cases, Obama announced his opposition to Proposition 8, an initiative measure proposed for the 2008 California General Election ballot that, if passed, would amend the California Constitution to define marriage as between only a man and a woman.[40] In a letter read to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club on June 29, 2008, Obama reiterated his opposition to the proposed amendment, stating that he supports extending "fully equal rights and benefits to same-sex couples under both state and federal law."[41]
    On May 9, 2012, Obama stated in an ABC interview that he supports gay marriage, being the first US President to ever do so while still in office.[42] In the interview, Obama stated, "over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or Marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don't Ask Don't Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_...e-sex_marriage

    To 2.) It may have something to do with the fact that he is a proponent of the single payer health care system. If you are a proponent of single payer you don't need to support universal health care as the single payer would eliminate the need to state such fact.

    To 3.) I combine that with your statement of 16 Trillion dollar debt (it's debt btw. Deficit is the annual budget and debt is the combination of all the deficits over the years). You are totally disregarding that some policies which cost us money now were implemented by the Bush Administration. You also disregard where the debt came from.
    Something to re-educate: http://www.snopes.com/politics/polit...tionaldebt.asp and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...#2001_vs._2009


    And he is a big spender by inheritance. But he didn't just spend. They invested. The auto industry bail ot is an investment which i.e. GM will pay back with interest. The private sector failed to invest. Romney wanted to let GM go bankrupt. But he wouldn't explain how to afford the 2 Million unemployed which would come with a bankruptcy. The unemployment and well fare benefits would have gone way beyond the bail out and would have been lost money. So the US government bought share and GM will buy them back over time. I.e. Chrysler has repaid some 10 billion dollars. They received 8 billion dollars under Obama after re-emerging from forced bankruptcy. The money spend under Bush (4 Billion) had to be mostly written off since the money was just given without restrictions. The restrictions were laid by the Obama administration and it was successful. The tax payer will foot a 2 billion bill at the end which is part of the Bush bailout. It is fuzzy math but to make a case against big spending by Obama you must separate his spending and his economic policies from that of his predecessor.
    http://www.factcheck.org/2011/06/chrysler-paid-in-full/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects...s_and_timeline

    And GM is working on repaying.
    http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/04/21/gm-pays-debt/

    GM is currently not using all its TAARP money and paying back the US and Canadian government by buying back stocks. The actuall loan (non ownership) is almost paid back.
    Of the 80 billion bailout to the auto industry almost 40 billion is already paid back.
    http://www.factcheck.org/2011/06/rom...-auto-bailout/

    And here is your daily TARP update. You can follow along at how this big spending will slowly disappear.
    http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/...07.25.2012.pdf

    To 4.) I combine that with your pathetic statement of number manipulation.
    Obama actually never promised nor mentioned 8%. I wasn't sure about that so I checked several sites. All of the sites dismissed that notion. Those who claim that the President said that have no link except to Ryan and Romney making that claim. The 8% number comes from a report with projections and possibilities under certain economic scenarios and economic measures. Here is the report link: http://otrans.3cdn.net/ee40602f9a7d8172b8_ozm6bt5oi.pdf

    Obama mentioned that report in his speech on January 10, 2009 but did not talk about a number.
    http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/your_weekly_address/

    And here is a really good article: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...d-not-exceed-/

    Under the circumstances I refrain to comment on the notion that the numbers were manipulated. All I have to say that it is truly pathetic and shows desperation by the right.

    I think I stop here for now. You have posted so much garbage that it'll take me a while to clean up. But I will continue. I promise you that. Unfortunately I have to work.
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  6. -6
    CRAZYDOLFAN305's Avatar
    We Are Still Going To The SB

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanFin View Post
    Before you go wagging your finger at George W. Bush and blame him for the mess he left your guy, it's time for a brief history lesson.

    Clinton repeals Glass-Steagall Act in last year of office. It paved the ground work sub-prime lending by nullifying the separation of investment and commercial banking.--

    Yes Clinton did sign the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act, which repeal the Glass-Steagall Act. This is really what infuriates me with conservatives living inside the bubble, you guys always let the facts get in your way. When presented it with it, always fail to say, my fault, I wasn't aware of that. It's so hard to have a sensible truthful conversation with the end result being accepting fault for not really knowing. But, I'll try, look I don't know you from a fly on the wall, but I'm going to treat you with respect because I'm sure if we work together in some capacity we probably would get along fine.

    Okay, so here's how the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. The Republicans controlled Congress in 1999. The Senate version of the bill, S. 900, The Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, also known as the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, passed the Senate 90-8 (92%). The House version of the bill, H.R. 10, The Financial Services Act of 1999, was made to conform to the Senate bill in Conference. The Conference version of the bill passed the House 362-57 (83%). When a bill passes both houses of Congress with a greater than 66% margin, the bill is considered veto proof. In other words, Clinton had no choice other than to sign the bill. He could have vetoed it. But Congress would have merely voted again, and overridden his veto.-- THIS IS A FACT. THIS IS A FACT.



    http://bizfinance.about.com/od/small...eagall-Act.htm

    Enter Barney Frank...



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_Frank



    Let me lay out the role of the key players of the Suprime Mortgage crisis before you attempt to lay the blame at the feet of just a few.

    1. SEC The SEC relaxed rules in 2004 that enabled investment banks to substantially increase the level of debt they were taking on, fueling the growth in mortgage-backed securities supporting subprime mortgages.

    2. The Glass–Steagall Act was enacted after the Great Depression. It separated commercial banks and investment banks, in part to avoid potential conflicts of interest between the lending activities of the former and rating activities of the latter. Economist Joseph Stiglitz criticized the repeal of the Act. He called its repeal the "culmination of a $300 million lobbying effort by the banking and financial services industries...spearheaded in Congress by Senator Phil Gramm."
    3. It was President Bush who advocated the "Ownership society. "He pushed hard to expand home ownership, especially among minorities, an initiative that dovetailed with his ambition to expand the Republican tent — and with the business interests of some of his biggest donors. But his housing policies and hands-off approach to regulation encouraged lax lending standards."
    And Yes you are CORRECT, It was in specific response to this regulatory effort that Barney Frank made his now infamous statement "These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."


    Then there's Chris Dodd...



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Dodd

    So failed oversight by Democratic leaders in Congress can be pointed at as the culprits for what would later be know as the subprime mortgage crisis. Let's see... and it looks as if Congress controlled both the House (Speaker of the House w/ Pelosi) and Senate (Senate majority leader w/ Reid) right before it really hit the fan starting in 2006. So the Progessive response is to blame Bush, even though he was pushing for an alternative proposal with more oversight.

    More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages came from private lending institutions in 2006 and the share of subprime loans insured by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac decreased as the bubble got bigger (from a high of insuring 48 percent to insuring 24 percent of all subprime loans in 2006).[44] Despite conservative criticism for government lending programs as the main cause of the crisis,[45][46][47][48] much of the crisis was independent of government home loan programs.

    AND THIS IS THE MAIN REASON OF THE CRISIS.
    The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 exempted derivatives from regulation, supervision, trading on established exchanges, and capital reserve requirements for major participants. Concerns that counterparties to derivative deals would be unable to pay their obligations caused pervasive uncertainty during the crisis. Particularly relevant to the crisis are credit default swaps (CDS), a derivative in which Party A pays Party B what is essentially an insurance premium, in exchange for payment should Party C default on its obligations. Warren Buffett famously referred to derivatives as "financial weapons of mass destruction" in early 2003


    So how does this relate to Obama? He was one of the many that had pushed for subprime lending. .

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/03/wi...can-americans/



    http://communities.washingtontimes.c...-loans-lawyer/

    Obama was also part of the 2006-2008 Democratic controlled Senate I mentioned earlier. He had an opportunity to speak out if was so concerned, but a look at his voting record shows he preferred merely to be "present." So he didn't solve our problems then, and he certainly isn't solving them now.

    http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-v.../#.UIElX8WHJv4

    So let's take a brief look at Obama's promises or self-descriptions. This is by no means comprehensive... but gives you a general idea of the man's short-comings and failures.


    1. Obama was against gay marriage his whole life and now is for it. (Small clarification,...Obama was against gay marriage on the record in 96', then was for it in 04', against it in 08' and evolved to accept it in 2012. Ironic that those were all election years, huh?)

    DOMA Was struck down by a conservative judge yesterday. Chief Judge Jacobs’ opinion concludes that any law which discriminates against gay men and lesbians should be treated very skeptically under our Constitution, he is saying that any attempt by government to discriminate against gay people must have an “exceedingly persuasive” justification. This is the same very skeptical standard afforded to laws that discriminate against women.

    The president recounted a change of heart on gay marriage. He said his thinking had evolved “over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors.” He talked of having observed members of his own staff “in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together.” He referenced conversations with his wife, who agrees with him. And of course he invoked the troops: “those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don't Ask Don't Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage. Now, you welcome to have your conspiracy theorists reasons, but this is why HE stated he changed his mind. But, I know he's the socialist marxist, so he can never mean what he says.

    2. He didn't want the individual mandate then put it in.
    When Obama, took office, the sole reason he pissed the progressive off and didn't to the public option was mainly because the Economy was shedding so much Jobs, he didn't want to wipe out the Healthcare industry and risk losing an entire sector that employs millions of people. So, Ideology be damned. That's what you should want in a President, doing what's my best for the country not just what you or your base want you to do.
    3. He isn't a big spender.
    Just to give you some guidance in making that guess, federal spending under the sainted President Reagan grew by 9.6 percent from 1980 to 1984. (Again, all of these numbers are inflation-adjusted.) Under the second President Bush, with a largely Republican Congress, federal spending grew by 16.5 percent from 2000 to 2004. Nixon, domestic spending grew from a little more than GDP to almost 14%. Reagan raised the debt ceiling 18 times, tripled the national debt (Carter added $483 billion to the debt; Reagan added $1.9 trillion) the deficit is $200 billion smaller than it was last year, and is nearly $300 billion smaller than when President Obama took office.

    So how much has it increased under Obama’s “spending"?

    The answer is 9.9 percent. Between 2008 and the recently completed fiscal 2012, total federal spending has increased by 9.9 percent, about the same amount as under Reagan and considerably less than under Bush.

    4. Unemployment won't go over 8%.

    The Private sector has added 5 million jobs, 31 straight months of added jobs. The Unemployment is current at 7.8%. New report out today showed job gains in 44 states today. They republicans refuse to pass the American Job act which would add another 2 million jobs. Republicans continue to lay-off public sector workers which continues to keep unemployment high, because after all their mission is to see this President Fail. The senate has use the filibuster 331 times to stop every economic stimulus plan that even they use to be for just for this country to be in as bad shape as possible in order for them to win in November.

    5. He will fix the housing sector.
    There was more good news coming out of the housing market yesterday, with the Commerce Department announcing that new residential construction projects, called housing starts, increased by 15% in September compared to the prior month and an even more impressive 34.8% compared to last year’s pace, reaching the highest level in four years.

    But the U.S. economy is not the only beneficiary of a resurgent real estate market. Many of Wall Street’s biggest banks are also benefitting, as evidenced by third-quarter earnings reports out this week. Both JPMorgan and Wells Fargo reported significant boosts in profits — 22% and 34%, respectively. These banks are both big players in the mortgage market, originating a huge percentage of new mortgages made each year.

    Six years after its collapse, economists believe the housing market has turned a corner. Recent data show home resales and groundbreaking on new properties rose. While business sentiment among homebuilders picked up to a more than six-year high this month.

    The home price data confirmed "recent good news" about the sector, David Blitzer, chairman of the index committee at Standard & Poor's, said in a statement. "This shows a continual recovery in the housing market, which continues to progress.

    The September Housing Starts data came in better than expected, up 15% to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 872K. The prior month's Starts tally was modestly revised up to 758K from 750K. Permits came in better than expected as well, coming in at 894K vs. expectations of 810K. The September Permits increase is up 45% from the same period last year, the biggest increase since the early 1980's. The gains were broad-based, with single-family starts up 11% from the previous month and multi-family starts increasing by 25.1%. Three of the four regions showed gains, with the West showing a 20.1% jump

    6. He will fix the border.
    As of July, Obama deported 1.4 million illegal immigrants since the beginning of his administration — that’s 1.5 times more immigrants on average than Bush deported every month, according to official numbers from the Department of Homeland Security*. But that’s only part of Obama’s deportation strategy: The administration’s stated goal is to prioritize the deportation of criminal, dangerous illegal immigrants. And it’s promised to make a new program called Secure Communities mandatory by 2013, which would force local law enforcement to share fingerprints of those arrested with the Department of Homeland Security, which has immigration records, through the FBI.
    7. He will close Gitmo.
    Ill' Give You that!
    8. He will win and end the Afgan war. -It's Ending in 2014. But I agree should have been done long time ago.
    9. Sitting down with dictators without precondition will make them love us more.- WTF?
    10. He will cut the federal deficit in half.
    How was he suppose to this under the worst financial crisis ever ? And the Republicans have yet to pass any of his budgets.
    11. He will bring people together.
    Wishful thinking on his part.
    12. He will end gridlock in Washington.
    Republican plot to obstruct President Obama before he even took office, including secret meetings led by House GOP whip Eric Cantor (in December 2008) and Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (in early January 2009) in which they laid out their daring (though cynical and political) no-honeymoon strategy of all-out resistance to a popular President-elect during an economic emergency. “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.” Mitch Oconell said their #1 mission is to make him a one term president. And his fault?
    13. He will not raise taxes on the middle class.
    He Hasn't ? Not One Dime. Cmon this the **** im talking about. He has raised a damn ****ing penny. This is directly from your boys mouth, In the midst of remarks otherwise ridiculing the president’s tax record, Romney said: “I admit this, [President Obama] has one thing he did not do in his first four years — he’s said he’s going to do in the next four years, which is to raise taxes.”
    14. He will get people working with 'shovel ready' jobs.
    Yeah, he miscalculate on that.
    15. He will curb global warming.
    The Obama administration has finalized regulations that will force automakers to nearly double the average gas mileage of all new cars and trucks they sell in America by 2025. And you mst of forgot in December 2009 when he flew to Copenhagen and jumped in to all-night negotiation sessions to try to extract a deal at the UN climate change summit.
    16. He will restore America's prestige and honor across the globe.
    With new policies, diplomacy, and rhetoric, reversed a sharp decline in world opinion toward the U.S. (and the corresponding loss of “soft power”) during the Bush years. From 2008 to 2011, favorable opinion toward the United States rose in ten of fifteen countries surveyed by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, with an average increase of 26 percent.
    17. He will be the most transparent president ever.
    I would probably give him a C on that front.
    18. The healthcare debate will be on CSPAN.


    It was on TV. In what could be a defining moment for his presidency, Barack Obama brings Republicans and Democrats together this afternoon in a six-hour televised debate over his flagging healthcare reforms. http://www.channel4.com/news/article...n/3562262.html

    He's a failure with:

    - $16 trillion national deficit-
    So the two wars Bush is responsible for that he didn't put on Budget, Medicare Part D, Tax Cuts For the wealthy. Those are responsible for the majority of the deficit. Unlike bush who didn't put those on budget, Obama did.
    - scandals arising from the admin's handling of Benghazi and Fast & Furious
    (Whatever bro, keep listening to your conservative friends)
    - manipulating the unemployment numbers (see the admin's violation of WARN) to look re-electable
    (When Unemployment was high you guys had no problem with the numbers, now that the numbers are looking a little better, now he's cheating. SMDH. So did he cook up the 44 states that added Jobs numbers to ?
    - with his only solution is to simply create more government bloat through stimulus spending-
    Reagan had a stimulus, Bush had two stimulus. Obama stimulus was necessary. He made people have to work for it, not like how bush did it by just sending you a check for either $300 or $600.
    - failed investments in green energy spending to the tune of $90 billion (see Solyndra) + an energy secretary (Mr. Chu) who has admitted to purposely ramping-up gas prices to make green energy vehicles look more attractive-
    Goverments always invests in companies, they win some they lose some, this has been happening forever, nothing new here.
    - lastly an Obamacare policy that will create more overhead costs for businesses nationally and will lead to more massive layoffs, a decrease in choices and an increase in cost for private policies, and lastly an unwarranted 3.8% levied on all citizens (the mandate)-
    Im tired of arguing about Obamacare, in due time, you will see the benefits. At one point people thought S.S and Medicare was doom to fail as well. And we all know how thats working out.

    I'm sure I could go on but why bother since you either get the point or you don't by now.
    Time will show you people this country has always done better under Democratic presidents as as oppose to Repulicans.
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    TrojanFin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TrojanFin
    Before you go wagging your finger at George W. Bush and blame him for the mess he left your guy, it's time for a brief history lesson.

    Clinton repeals Glass-Steagall Act in last year of office. It paved the ground work sub-prime lending by nullifying the separation of investment and commercial banking.




    http://bizfinance.about.com/od/small...eagall-Act.htm

    Enter Barney Frank...



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_Frank

    Then there's Chris Dodd...



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Dodd

    So failed oversight by Democratic leaders in Congress can be pointed at as the culprits for what would later be know as the subprime mortgage crisis. Let's see... and it looks as if Congress controlled both the House (Speaker of the House w/ Pelosi) and Senate (Senate majority leader w/ Reid) right before it really hit the fan starting in 2006. So the Progessive response is to blame Bush, even though he was pushing for an alternative proposal with more oversight.

    So how does this relate to Obama? He was one of the many that had pushed for subprime lending. .

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/03/wi...can-americans/




    http://communities.washingtontimes.c...-loans-lawyer/

    Obama was also part of the 2006-2008 Democratic controlled Senate I mentioned earlier. He had an opportunity to speak out if was so concerned, but a look at his voting record shows he preferred merely to be "present." So he didn't solve our problems then, and he certainly isn't solving them now.

    http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-v.../#.UIElX8WHJv4

    So let's take a brief look at Obama's promises or self-descriptions. This is by no means comprehensive... but gives you a general idea of the man's short-comings and failures.



    1. Obama was against gay marriage his whole life and now is for it. (Small clarification,...Obama was against gay marriage on the record in 96', then was for it in 04', against it in 08' and evolved to accept it in 2012. Ironic that those were all election years, huh?)
    2. He didn't want the individual mandate then put it in.
    3. He isn't a big spender.
    4. Unemployment won't go over 8%.
    5. He will fix the housing sector.
    6. He will fix the border.
    7. He will close Gitmo.
    8. He will win and end the Afgan war.
    9. Sitting down with dictators without precondition will make them love us more.
    10. He will cut the federal deficit in half.
    11. He will bring people together.
    12. He will end gridlock in Washington.
    13. He will not raise taxes on the middle class.
    14. He will get people working with 'shovel ready' jobs.
    15. He will curb global warming.
    16. He will restore America's prestige and honor across the globe.
    17. He will be the most transparent president ever.
    18. The healthcare debate will be on CSPAN.


    He's a failure with:

    - $16 trillion national deficit
    - scandals arising from the admin's handling of Benghazi and Fast & Furious
    - manipulating the unemployment numbers (see the admin's violation of WARN) to look re-electable
    - with his only solution is to simply create more government bloat through stimulus spending
    - failed investments in green energy spending to the tune of $90 billion (see Solyndra) + an energy secretary (Mr. Chu) who has admitted to purposely ramping-up gas prices to make green energy vehicles look more attractive
    - lastly an Obamacare policy that will create more overhead costs for businesses nationally and will lead to more massive layoffs, a decrease in choices and an increase in cost for private policies, and lastly an unwarranted 3.8% levied on all citizens (the mandate)


    I'm sure I could go on but why bother since you either get the point or you don't by now.

    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    I was able to read everything but it will take me a while to respond to this mostly garbage.




    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    Though while I was reading you used a post-filler to make it look more than it is and one thing quickly stuck out. Obama did not force any bank into giving loans to people who could not afford a mortgage. It is debunked many times and simply a rightish attempt to turn away responsibility. The reality of the case you are mentioning in the mid 90s can be read here:
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/loans.asp
    Here’s Obama essentially damning himself in regards to subprime loans. (Cue to 4:13)





    In those years, he also conducted leadership-training seminars for ACORN’s up-and-coming organizers. That is, Obama was training the army of ACORN organizers who participated in Madeline Talbott’s drive against Chicago’s banks.

    More than that, Obama was funding them. As he rose to a leadership role at Chicago’s Woods Fund, he became the most powerful voice on the foundation’s board for supporting ACORN and other community organizers. In 1995, the Woods Fund substantially expanded its funding of community organizers – and Obama chaired the committee that urged and managed the shift.
    http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/20...-lending-mess/

    You miss the point. It’s not just about one case. Obama pushed for subprime lending through organizations such as ACORN which served as a catalyst for the 2008 meltdown. So whether it was indirectly or directly, Obama’s influence helped push banks to take on bad loans, because he was a proponent of helping poor minority groups “buy” housing they could not afford.

    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    To 1.) Not true. He ran in 1996 supporting same sex marriage. He was for civil unions in 2004 and 2008 but he never was against the phrase 'same sex marriage'. As a matter of fact in 2008 he voted against the Marriage Defense Act in 2008. His personal opinion is that marriage should stay between a man and a woman but his political decision is independent from his personal opinion.

    Obama supported legalizing same-sex marriage when he first ran for the Illinois Senate in 1996,[33] was undecided about legalizing same-sex marriage when he ran for re-election to the Illinois Senate in 1998,[34] and supported civil unions but not same-sex marriage when he ran for the U.S. Senate in 2004 and for U.S. President in 2008.[33] Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment which would have defined marriage as between one man and one woman, but stated in a 2008 interview that he personally believes that marriage is "between a man and a woman" and that he is "not in favor of gay marriage."[35] He supports civil unions that would carry equal legal standing to that of marriage for same-sex couples, but believes that decisions about the title of marriage should be left to the states.[36][37][23]On May 9, 2012, Obama announced that he supported gay marriage, making him the first president in American history to support same-sex marriage while in office.[38]
    Obama has called for the repeal of the federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).[39]

    On May 15, 2008, in a statement in response to the ruling of the California Supreme Court in In re Marriage Cases, Obama announced his opposition to Proposition 8, an initiative measure proposed for the 2008 California General Election ballot that, if passed, would amend the California Constitution to define marriage as between only a man and a woman.[40] In a letter read to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club on June 29, 2008, Obama reiterated his opposition to the proposed amendment, stating that he supports extending "fully equal rights and benefits to same-sex couples under both state and federal law."[41]

    On May 9, 2012, Obama stated in an ABC interview that he supports gay marriage, being the first US President to ever do so while still in office.[42] In the interview, Obama stated, "over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or Marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don't Ask Don't Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_...e-sex_marriage
    Again, missing the point that Obama’s view was usually politically expedient. Your defense of Obama is simply parsing words, but I assure you that many in the gay community do not equate “civil unions” as being the same as “gay marriage.” Obama essentially flip-flopped all over the place before he decided that he was once again in favor of “gay marriage” and not just believer in “civil unions” or politically supporting it while personally being against it (whatever that means).

    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    To 2.) It may have something to do with the fact that he is a proponent of the single payer health care system. If you are a proponent of single payer you don't need to support universal health care as the single payer would eliminate the need to state such fact.
    Or it may have something to do with the fact that he (along with Pelosi and Ried) included the individual mandate, along every other accounting trick available, in order to foist this financial albatross onto the backs of US taxpayers for the next three generations - at minimum.

    To 3.) I combine that with your statement of 16 Trillion dollar debt (it's debt btw. Deficit is the annual budget and debt is the combination of all the deficits over the years). You are totally disregarding that some policies which cost us money now were implemented by the Bush Administration. You also disregard where the debt came from.
    Something to re-educate: http://www.snopes.com/politics/polit...tionaldebt.asp and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...#2001_vs._2009
    I meant debt, so thanks for catching that. Seriously though, playing the “blame Bush card” again?

    * In February 2009, Democratic President Barack Obama stated:

    I refuse to leave our children with a debt that they cannot repay. And that means taking responsibility right now, in this administration, for getting our spending under control.[116]


    * From the time that Congress enacted the President's first major economic proposal (February 2009[117]) through February 2011, the national debt rose from 10.9 trillion[118] to 14.2 trillion.[119] This equates to an increase of $3.3 trillion over 2.0 years or $1,659 billion per year.[120] This also equates to an increase from 77% of GDP to 95%, or an average of 8.6 percentage points per year.[121]
    Political Power Dates Average Annual Change in
    National Debt
    (Percentage Points of GDP)
    Bill Clinton with Democratic
    House and Senate
    1/20/93 – 1/4/95 0.9
    Bill Clinton with Republican
    House and Senate
    1/4/95 – 1/19/01 -1.6
    George W. Bush with Republican
    House and Senate
    1/19/01 – 6/6/01
    11/12/02 – 1/4/07
    0.7
    George W. Bush with Republican
    House and Democratic Senate
    6/6/01 – 11/12/02 2.2
    George W. Bush with Democratic
    House and Senate
    1/4/07 – 1/20/09 6.2
    Barack Obama with Democratic
    House and Senate
    1/20/09 – 1/4/11 9.1

    http://www.justfacts.com/nationaldebt.asp

    It’s odd how the gradual increase of percentage points under GW happened as Congress became more Democratic (0.7 to 6.2). Could just be a coincidence. Meanwhile, Obama’s presidency starts with a high percentage, and will likely continue to go up.


    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    And he is a big spender by inheritance. But he didn't just spend. They invested. The auto industry bail ot is an investment which i.e. GM will pay back with interest. The private sector failed to invest. Romney wanted to let GM go bankrupt. But he wouldn't explain how to afford the 2 Million unemployed which would come with a bankruptcy. The unemployment and well fare benefits would have gone way beyond the bail out and would have been lost money. So the US government bought share and GM will buy them back over time. I.e. Chrysler has repaid some 10 billion dollars. They received 8 billion dollars under Obama after re-emerging from forced bankruptcy. The money spend under Bush (4 Billion) had to be mostly written off since the money was just given without restrictions. The restrictions were laid by the Obama administration and it was successful. The tax payer will foot a 2 billion bill at the end which is part of the Bush bailout. It is fuzzy math but to make a case against big spending by Obama you must separate his spending and his economic policies from that of his predecessor.
    http://www.factcheck.org/2011/06/chrysler-paid-in-full/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects...s_and_timeline
    Consider it separated…

    Exhibit A. So much Green spent on Green!
    http://blog.heritage.org/2012/10/18/...ergy-failures/

    Exhibit B. Alms for the Poor!
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...nt-four-years/

    Exhibit C. Money Burning a Hole in Obama’s Pocket!

    Ironically, Edwards tells Newsmax, the “spendthrift” habits of the Bush years are what laid the groundwork for Obama’s record-smashing expansion. Obama may cancel or rename Bush programs, Edwards says – citing No Child Left Behind as an example. But he will not rescind the funding.

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/oba...2/12/id/341778


    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    And GM is working on repaying.
    http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/04/21/gm-pays-debt/

    GM is currently not using all its TAARP money and paying back the US and Canadian government by buying back stocks. The actuall loan (non ownership) is almost paid back.
    Of the 80 billion bailout to the auto industry almost 40 billion is already paid back.
    http://www.factcheck.org/2011/06/rom...-auto-bailout/
    I see a contradiction here to all being well in TARP-land.
    So, did GM actually pay back the TARP money? Well, of GM’s $50 billion bailout, only $6.7 billion was required to be repaid in cash, and yes, this was paid back. The final payment was made April 21, 2010; but contrary to Mr. Whitaker’s claims, GM didn’t repay the loans. Instead, “unused” TARP money had been quietly transferred. The New York Times said it best the following week (May 1) with the headline “Repaying Taxpayers with Their Own Cash.”
    The rest of the $50 billion loan was paid back with GM stock, meaning we (taxpayers) now own part of GM. We’ve sold some of this stock, but in the end we’ll likely lose around $20 billion.
    President Obama’s restructuring of GM meant wiping out the bondholders and the previous stockholders, as well as putting thousands of mechanics and salesmen out of work by needlessly closing more than 1,000 dealerships.
    GM could have gone through a normal managed bankruptcy and emerged leaner and stronger. Instead, we now hear that GM may need another bailout next year.
    I guess they’ve spent the first one already.
    http://www.salisburypost.com/Opinion...er-for-web-qcd

    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    And here is your daily TARP update. You can follow along at how this big spending will slowly disappear.
    http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/...07.25.2012.pdf
    That’s nice and all, but you forgot the Stimulus spending. It doesn't look like they want us to take a look at the numbers though.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ts_654968.html

    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    To 4.) I combine that with your pathetic statement of number manipulation.
    Obama actually never promised nor mentioned 8%. I wasn't sure about that so I checked several sites. All of the sites dismissed that notion. Those who claim that the President said that have no link except to Ryan and Romney making that claim. The 8% number comes from a report with projections and possibilities under certain economic scenarios and economic measures. Here is the report link: http://otrans.3cdn.net/ee40602f9a7d8172b8_ozm6bt5oi.pdf

    Obama mentioned that report in his speech on January 10, 2009 but did not talk about a number.
    http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/your_weekly_address/

    And here is a really good article: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...d-not-exceed-/
    You got me. I trusted what I was told in the debate, and since Obama referenced the report in a debate, we all assumed he did a little goal setting. Silly us, it looks like Obama never created a benchmark to exceed in regards to unemployment. More like an excuses that it could have been so much worse, like 12, 13 or 15. Glad to see we set the bar so low.




    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    Under the circumstances I refrain to comment on the notion that the numbers were manipulated. All I have to say that it is truly pathetic and shows desperation by the right.
    Speaking of manipulating numbers… check out this out. Fascinating what Obama can do with facts and figures.




    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    I think I stop here for now. You have posted so much garbage that it'll take me a while to clean up. But I will continue. I promise you that. Unfortunately I have to work.
    The “clean up” will happen once Obama is out of office. There’s so much more stuff you haven’t even begun to address, which merely proves my point. Seriously, stop making excuses for the guy. He has over-promised and under-delivered. It is time to move on. He was the guy that said he could fix everything if you recall, whether you believe it was GW’s fault or not.

    Also, be thankful you have a job whereas many don’t thanks to the bang-up job this President and many of his Progressive chums have been doing.

    ---------- Post added at 05:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYDOLFAN305 View Post
    Time will show you people this country has always done better under Democratic presidents as as oppose to Repulicans.
    See Jimmy Carter...
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    CRAZYDOLFAN305's Avatar
    We Are Still Going To The SB

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    Delusional. We getting for more years to clean up y'all ****. No republican has ever done as good as FDR and Clinton period. And wait till Obama is done. Y OK I guys are going to be extent .
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYDOLFAN305 View Post
    Delusional. We getting for more years to clean up y'all ****. No republican has ever done as good as FDR and Clinton period. And wait till Obama is done. Y OK I guys are going to be extent .
    I beg to differ. I know you have been brainwashed by the mainstream media and your socialist school teachers (those people protesting for ridiculous pensions), but these Democrats you idolize are anything but perfect.

    Educate yourself about FDR --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici...n_D._Roosevelt

    Essentially we are still paying the price for the many programs he started during his presidency (social security for example - biggest pyramid scheme ever and now an American institution). He started Alphabet Soup with the creation of countless agencies, and helped to infringe on the rights of states through an unprecedented consolidation of power in Washington DC. He also had no respect for tradition, holding the office for nearly 3 terms, and was the closest thing to a "king" this country has ever seen. Our forefathers would have been shaking their heads since they favored the states to have control over all non-enumerated decisions according to the Constitution, and would never want someone to be in control for that long for fear they would become a dictator.

    Clinton, meanwhile, was so unpopular during his first two years that for the first time in a half of a century the Republicans held the majority in both the House and Senate in 1994. Perhaps it has something to do with his Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1993, which served as one of the largest tax hikes in history (which was questionably done retroactively). It was the Contract with America created primarily by a Republican Congress (which capped Clinton's ability to spend said tax dollars on his various pet programs) and also created accountability in Washington that up until that time was unheard of. The budget got balanced, and Clinton was also fortuitous to be President during the "dot.com" boom. It was during the "dot.com" bust that things started to get ugly, but Clinton was out the door at that point. I will give Clinton credit for working with Republicans to get things done.

    There's Woodrow Wilson (a Progressive President that was pro-segragation), Harry S. Truman (the only leader to use a nuclear bomb in a wartime situation but didn't finish the job by invading China at the request of General Douglas McArthur - could have speculatively prevented the Korean/Vietnam Wars), JFK (gets an incomplete due to untimely death - Bay of Pigs was a negative though, LBJ (see Gulf of Tonkin incident- escalating the Vietnam War and the government bloat due to the Great Society), Carter (super stagflation - incompetent in handling foreign affairs - see Panama Canal or Iran Hostage Crisis).

    As for Republicans - two decades that are considered prosperous times our nations history were the 1950's and the 1980's which were mainly led by Republican Presidents Eisenhower and Reagan.

    Nixon was a foreign relations master, and opened up trade with China for the first time in a long while.

    GW kept our country safe following 9-11 i.e. prevented an further terrorist acts from being committed on American soil during his time in office.

    I'm sure Progressives will judge them (a Republican POTUS) more harshly, but they hold their own against the many Democratic Presidents.

    Ultimately, I respect anyone that holds the office of President. It is probably one of the toughest jobs in the world. I even respect Democratic Presidents such as JFK.

    JFK was once quoted for saying: "...an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough jobs or enough profits."

    Unfortunately, such concepts are now maligned by the left and are now adopted by the right. I am looking at you Obama.
    Last edited by TrojanFin; 10-20-2012 at 09:10 PM.
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