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Thread: Gotta be honest.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    that screenshot is w/ the clock already stopped, it should probably be at 1:59 at the time of this screen shot.

    I didn't say anything about a conspiracy, it could have been an honest error but it was an error and that is as clear as can be.
    You are starting to sound like JETSJETSJETS. Junc, please explain to me how we can know the clock is already stopped at that point? I have already explained why we know it was not stopped, and proved that there was a full second left to determine possession and stop the clock after he first touched the ball.

    If it makes you feel better, then by all means continue to think that they were screwed, or that there was an error. The evidence says otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    You are starting to sound like JETSJETSJETS. Junc, please explain to me how we can know the clock is already stopped at that point? I have already explained why we know it was not stopped, and proved that there was a full second left to determine possession and stop the clock after he first touched the ball.

    If it makes you feel better, then by all means continue to think that they were screwed, or that there was an error. The evidence says otherwise.
    b/c it stopped at 2:01 so it's pretty clear the clock is already stopped.

    I don't think we were screwed I KNOW we were but AGAIN we still should have won. Good teams take advantage and that is what NE did but they gained a significant advantage saving a TO for them which changes the way you run your offenses in that last minute.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    b/c it stopped at 2:01 so it's pretty clear the clock is already stopped.

    I don't think we were screwed I KNOW we were but AGAIN we still should have won. Good teams take advantage and that is what NE did but they gained a significant advantage saving a TO for them which changes the way you run your offenses in that last minute.

    Well, that settles it then. We can just ignore all of the actual evidence that says otherwise and move on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    Apparently you didn't, or you would have known your claim of 2 to 3 seconds was impossible. I wrote out the tenths in front (2:06.99) in an effort to try to get you to understand that all tenths need to be counted. I never implied that 2:07 should be on the clock (which is how 2:06.1 to 2:06.99 would show up on the clock) It is written out incorrectly, but nothing changes if you count out the tenths in front if you count the second down (meaning 2:06.99 changes to 2:05 after 0:00.99 seconds) or if you count them out the proper way (2:05.99 changes to 2:05 in 0:00.99 seconds) You said:
    Here's what you wrote, again "You made a critical error. 2:06 could potentially be anywhere from 2:06.01 to 2:06.99."


    I have said 4-tenths from the beginning, and 159:70 is 4-tenths away from 2:00.10 which will read 2:01 on the NFL clock. You kept saying 2 to 3 seconds which means you were not including all the tenths that ran off. This is the first post that you now get it and have change your 2-3 second difference to 1 second. You are still wrong, but I am glad we are finally getting closer.
    They only one whining about tenths of seconds is u.

    We know when it should have been stopped, and know that it got stopped within tenths of when it should have been. You can watch the Jets FG attempt before the KO fumble and know that there should be a full 10-tenths on the 2:06. Trying to figure out the reaction time is silly.
    Average human reaction time is just over .2 seconds.

    I could say well maybe the operators reaction time was longer than it should have been on the FG stoppage, and maybe he started it too early on the KO return. Who cares? We know when it should have stopped on the last play and when it should have started on the next play. Based on the play before, there should be a full 10-tenths on the 2:06, which means that we have 5.9 seconds that can pass between 2:06.00 and 2:00.1. We know that is accurate based on the play before and the play after.
    Wrong. From the time the returner catches the ball, to the time clock ticks down to 2:05 is .8 seconds total. Minus the reaction time, and the time the returner took to take the ball out of the EZ, we only have .5 seconds. That means we only had 2:05:50 on the clock before the start of the play. The play took 6.9 seconds. 2:05:50 minus 6.9 is 1:58:6, or 1:59 on the NFL clock (which stopped at 2:01). Difference between 2:01 and 1:59 is 2 seconds, which backs up my claim of 2-3 seconds.

    I don't have any faith that you started timing it at the right time, and stopped it at the right time. From the time he entered the field of play to the time the whistle came is 6.3 seconds, not 6.9. You claiming that there is only 1-tenth of a second difference between the official waving his arms and the whistle blowing is ridiculous, unless he is Flash Gordon. I would like to see what a waving arm, being raised from the hip,towards the sky in 1-tenth of a second, looks like.
    I would like to know if the clock operator was even looking at that ref and not paying attention to a different ref? I could care less, but we do know when the whistle came in.

    You are the one whining about tenths of a second, not me. Maybe it did read 2:05.70, and the reaction time on the next play was 1-tenth which account for 8-tenths being ran off before the clock changed. Maybe it read 2:05.20 and the clock operators reaction time was 6-tenths which would account for the 8-tenths that you see. None of that matters to me. What matters is what it should be, and we know what it should be based on the play before and after.
    You've been whining about tenths of seconds. I've maintained my 2-3 second claim.


    You have claimed 2 to 3 seconds this whole time. The clock read 2:06 when it started and stopped at 2:01. Do the math. Even with the whistle coming as far as 6.9 seconds and the clock stopping as soon as it hits 2:01, you still can't get a 2 to 3 seconds. This is the first post that you get it and have changed your tune.
    Repost alert: From the time the returner catches the ball, to the time clock ticks down to 2:05 is .8 seconds total. Minus the reaction time, and the time the returner took to take the ball out of the EZ, we only have .5 seconds. That means we only had 2:05:50 on the clock before the start of the play. The play took 6.9 seconds. 2:05:50 minus 6.9 is 1:58:6, or 1:59 on the NFL clock (which stopped at 2:01). Difference between 2:01 and 1:59 is 2 seconds, which backs up my claim of 2-3 seconds.

    That is your claim, not mine. My math is based on 2:06.00 which is what should be on the clock. It is 5.9 seconds that passed, and 6.3 when the whistle blew. 4-tenths which is what I have been telling you since the beginning.
    U math is weak, because you are not even trying to figure out if the clock read 2:05:05 or 2:06:00 without anything to back it up with. I've backed it up with my claim. See above.

    On top of that, 6.3 is when the whistle blew, not when the play was being signaled dead. That could have come as early as 5.5, so even according to your calculations, the clock operator still would have had 1-tenth to stop the clock at 2:01.
    Ur math is weak. ur 5.5 second calculations are pretty funny, cuz I slowed down the speed to one fourth and from the time the player leaves the EZ to the part whistle blows, its almost 28 seconds (6.9 seconds).

    No, 5.5 is when he clearly has possession and was down by contact. The Jets player recovered the the ball and was first touched by a NE player at 4.8 seconds. You claim the whistle came at 6.9, and it actually came at 6.3. Anyone can examine the video and determine who is right. We know the play was being signaled dead before the whistle blew. Based on the recovery on the video, the official could have signaled it as early as 5.5. We can't see him, so we can't know for sure if he was, but it certainly would have been reasonable for him to do so. The NFL looked into this and they have a lot more video angels to see when the signal came. The NFL said there was no foul play. I don't take the NFL's word alone, but examining the play myself, I agree.
    NFL almost always backs up with refs.
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    Just when I thought that we were making some progress, you start posting nonsense again.


    Quote Originally Posted by JETSJETSJETS View Post
    Here's what you wrote, again "You made a critical error. 2:06 could potentially be anywhere from 2:06.01 to 2:06.99."
    How many times do I have to repeat myself? I already told you that it was written out incorrectly. I wrote the tenths out front because you obviously didn't get that the tenths needed to be counted. Here is the proof. I wrote:

    You say that the whistle came 2-3 seconds after the clock stopped. That is impossible. I just proved that the clock was stopped after 5.9 seconds, and we know that we heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds. That is a difference of 4-tenths of a second, not 2 to 3 seconds.
    And you responded:

    You are wrong again. Let me prove it to you in ur words. If the play took 6.3 seconds then from 2:06:00 minus 6:3 seconds is 1:59:70.
    You obviously didn't know that 1:59.70 reads 2:00 on an NFL clock and that 1:59.70 is only 4-tenths away from reading 2:01 on an NFL clock. The math backed up exactly what I was saying and you posted as if it didn't because you didn't know any better.

    I don't even care if you want to harp on the tenths being written incorrectly (out front for your benefit) it does not change my argument of 4-tenths versus your argument of 2 to 3 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by JETSJETSJETS View Post
    Wrong. From the time the returner catches the ball, to the time clock ticks down to 2:05 is .8 seconds total. Minus the reaction time, and the time the returner took to take the ball out of the EZ, we only have .5 seconds. That means we only had 2:05:50 on the clock before the start of the play. The play took 6.9 seconds. 2:05:50 minus 6.9 is 1:58:6, or 1:59 on the NFL clock (which stopped at 2:01). Difference between 2:01 and 1:59 is 2 seconds, which backs up my claim of 2-3 seconds.
    You can't pass off assumptions as facts. You have no clue when the clock operator actually started the clock. We can make all kinds of assumptions like that if we want to. Maybe there was 2:06.00 and he started it 2-tenths too early. Maybe he let the clock run longer than it should have on the Jets FG attempt and there was only 2:05.3 and he started it 5 tenths too late on the KO return. All of that would add up to the 8-tenths you are seeing, but what actually happened can not be proven. All you know is that when you think the clock should have been started, .8 seconds passed before it changed to 2:05. I don't need to make assumptions about how much time was actually on the clock and exactly when he started and stopped it. I know how much time should be on the clock based on the Jets FG attempt, and I know when the clock should start and stop based on the rules. That is all we need to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by JETSJETSJETS View Post
    I would like to know if the clock operator was even looking at that ref and not paying attention to a different ref? I could care less, but we do know when the whistle came in.
    You are arguing that the clock stopped 2 to 3 seconds before it should have. Are you now trying to argue that it is not reasonable for the clock operator to stop the clock when the official was giving the signal because he might have been looking somewhere else? Ridiculous!


    Quote Originally Posted by JETSJETSJETS View Post
    You've been whining about tenths of seconds. I've maintained my 2-3 second claim.
    You foolishly maintained your 2 to 3 second claim even when I showed you that it was impossible since the play took 6.3 seconds and that 5.9 seconds can pass from 2:06 to 2:01 before the clock changes to 2:00. When you finally figured out that your claim of 2 to 3 seconds was impossible at 6.3 seconds, you started to make up stuff and increased the time of the play to 6.9 seconds and decreased the time on the clock down to 5.5 with your assumptions about the clock operator.



    Quote Originally Posted by JETSJETSJETS View Post
    Repost alert: From the time the returner catches the ball, to the time clock ticks down to 2:05 is .8 seconds total. Minus the reaction time, and the time the returner took to take the ball out of the EZ, we only have .5 seconds. That means we only had 2:05:50 on the clock before the start of the play. The play took 6.9 seconds. 2:05:50 minus 6.9 is 1:58:6, or 1:59 on the NFL clock (which stopped at 2:01). Difference between 2:01 and 1:59 is 2 seconds, which backs up my claim of 2-3 seconds.
    You still don't get it. If you want to get an accurate time, you need to count the tenths and not only what the NFL clock reads. Even when you incorrectly increase the time of the play to 6.9 seconds and you decrease the time (with assumptions) on the clock to 5.5 seconds, you still can't make it to your 2 to 3 seconds claim. It is 1.4 seconds. You still need 0.6 to 1.6 more to make it to your 2 to 3 second claim.


    Quote Originally Posted by JETSJETSJETS View Post
    U math is weak, because you are not even trying to figure out if the clock read 2:05:05 or 2:06:00 without anything to back it up with. I've backed it up with my claim. See above.
    Your assumptions do not back up anything. We can't prove how much time was actually on the clock becasue we can't prove exactly when the clock operator started and stopped the clock. What we do know is how much time should be on the clock based on the play before and when the clock should start and stop based on the rules.

    You can eliminate the variable of the clock operator by starting the timer at 2:05. We know there is a full 2:05.00 on the clock since we can see it go from 2:06 to 2:05 right in front of our eyes. Correct? From 2:05.00, 4.9 seconds can pass, and the clock will still read 2:01. Agreed?

    I included a timer with tenths that starts at 2:05 on the video. The timer actually starts 1-tenth too soon, but it doesn't really make a difference to my argument of 4-tenths versus your argument of 2 to 3 seconds.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=245ub9bK7t0


    As you can see in the video, he clearly has possession at 4.6 seconds.




    That ^ still leaves 3-tenths (actually 4-tenths since I started the timer 1-tenth too soon) for the clock to be stopped at 2:01. The official is most likely waving his arms at this point. You can see the official when he first comes in to view waving his arms at 5.2 here:



    Since I started the clock 1-tenth too soon, it should really read 5.1 which means he is giving the signal within 2-tenths of the clock reading 2:01. On my PC, the audio of the whistle lines up perfectly with the clock stopping at 5.4, but for some reason the sound is slightly delayed after uploading it to youtube. In the youtube video, it looks like the clock stops a split second before you hear the whistle blow, but it does not on my PC. Regardless, I started the clock 1-tenth too soon and even with the sound delay, it is no more than a 1-tenth difference, so we are still in the 4-tenths range (Far from the 2 to 3 second range) of the clock reading 2:01 at the time of the whistle.

    However, there is no need to go to the whistle since we clearly see possession before that, and the official giving the signal before the whistle is blown.

    This should end this silly debate, but I am sure you will come up with something.
    Last edited by The New Guy; 11-08-2012 at 05:25 PM.
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    you van post still photos all you want, watch the video in real time. There's no way on earth the clock could have been stopped that quickly. Give it up already, the game is a month old. We all know the Jets got screwed but still should have won the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    you van post still photos all you want, watch the video in real time. There's no way on earth the clock could have been stopped that quickly. Give it up already, the game is a month old. We all know the Jets got screwed but still should have won the game.
    I posted the video which can be seen in real time. The still shots with the timer shown is from that video. If you don't think a clock can be stopped within a half a second, I can't help you. I have provided more than enough proof that shows the Jets did not get screwed. You and JetsJetsJets are the ones that continue to claim that in spite of the evidence. You are the ones that need to give it up. I am on the side of the truth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    I posted the video which can be seen in real time. The still shots with the timer shown is from that video. If you don't think a clock can be stopped within a half a second, I can't help you. I have provided more than enough proof that shows the Jets did not get screwed. You and JetsJetsJets are the ones that continue to claim that in spite of the evidence. You are the ones that need to give it up. I am on the side of the truth.
    you are going down to tenths of a second, just the reaction time alone from time we recover it at 2:01 until the clock could be stopped would make it at least 2:00, the 2 min warning should have happened, we got screwed. It's ok to admit it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    you are going down to tenths of a second, just the reaction time alone from time we recover it at 2:01 until the clock could be stopped would make it at least 2:00, the 2 min warning should have happened, we got screwed. It's ok to admit it.
    You have to be kidding right? You think it takes over a full second for a clock operator to stop a clock? It is amazing that I can watch the video in real time with a stop watch and come up with exactly what shows up on the video. The clock gets stopped when it is clear that the Jets had possession and was down by contact. It is like you want to change the rules of when the clock should stop and extend it for no good reason, There is no debate here. The evidence is very clear. It is ok to look at the evidence and admit that the clock should have rightfully been stopped at 2:01. It is ok to admit that the Jets screwed themselves.
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    we hopped on it at 2:01(or just as it turned 2:01), there's no way the clock should stop at 2:01. It's not possible, watch any game and watch how the clock continues to tick after players go down or OOB. It doesn't happen except that day.
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