Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 48

Thread: Colts tanked in 2011 - revisited

  1. -31
    Codemaster's Avatar
    Scout Team

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Aug 2009
    Posts:
    87
    vCash:
    1016
    Loc:
    Jacksonville
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by WVDolphan View Post
    They did tank, but not in the way most people are thinking.

    The only players you are going to get to fall in line with an order to tank would possibly be established vets who have a contract in place or a nod from the organization that their play in the season in question will not effect their pay on their next contract. Basically, its almost nobody. Maybe Freeney.

    Players are out there trying to earn a living. Their play is on film. They are going to try their best. They cant just trust an organization to take care of them. Also, they put themselves at risk for injury if they arent playing the game right. So the idea that it was a team wide conspiracy to tank is total bull****. HOWEVER............

    There was definately a plan within the organization to tank that season once Peyton Manning was injured and couldnt start the season. Here are the steps........

    1) Peyton Manning was not allowed to take the field. There is no doubt in my mind Peyton could have played towards the end of last season, probably even the entire 2nd half or more. Over playing his injury and the team convincing him that he would be putting himself at risk was part of the plan to suck for Luck. If Manning plays, they win games.

    2) Playing a completely inept QB over a guy who was somewhat capable of getting something done. These 2 were the real key. Curtis Painter had no business in an NFL uniform, much less starting games. Everyone knew this. The guy they had on the bench(Orlovski of whatever his name was) was much more capable of winning. Thats why he didnt get in the game. That guy was a legit backup NFL QB, so he sat while they rolled out Painter.

    3) Keeping a total bewb in there to manage the games. Jim Caldwell was completely clueless. This was known for years, but when they had Manning in there, everyone knew Manning managed the games so the HC wasnt much of a factor. Once Manning went down, Caldwell was in charge.

    QB play is so important, that those simple steps alone were a recipe to lose almost every game on a roster that wasnt exactly great. True, if they had a good QB they are a winning team, but Painter was so bad their offense had no shot.

    Now, whether or not a couple of vets were in on the plan is debateable. I kind of doubt it. The one thing they can do is not play certain guys. If a player were in on it, he could simply not play due to "injury" and get himself a season of rest. There are very few players who would be willing to do this and it would take a special circumstance.

    The one thing you could go back and check is if they shed some of their veteran players off the roster. I think they did.

    If you take those steps above, its a recipe for sucking for Luck. Its never a guarantee, but it give you a great shot.




    Having said all of that, take a look at what the Panthers did the previous season. I called that one from the start of the season. There is no question in my mind they sucked for Luck. Problem is, their plan back fired on them as Luck did not come out. I know they didnt suck for Newton. Right now they suck with Newton.

    But, look at what the Panthers did before that season. They completely stripped their roster of key veteran players by cutting most of them and trading the ones that could get them anything back. They rolled out a completely lame duck HC who none of the players would respect because they all knew he was getting fired at seasons end. It was an organizational plan to tank the season. They set it up to where they knew no matter how hard the players played, they werent going to win. Simple as that.



    Now, could the phins have sucked for Luck last year? You bet your ass they couldve made a solid run at it if they tried. However, they obviously didnt. They definately had the pieces in place to give it a run though.

    1) They couldve left Sparano at HC. I seriously thought this mightve been the plan when they brought him back. Sparano was clueless. He could definately botch games while trying to win. Despite the extention, everyone on the team knew he was on his way out and it was a big factor in them losing early in the year. I think its obvious from some of the statements from players coming out that the players did not respect him.

    But, if they really wanted to suck for Luck, they should not have extended him. They shouldve just let him coach while on that last year of the contract and make it totally obvious he was a lame duck. This wouldve been bad for the team, which of course means good if you get Luck out of it.

    2) They shouldve kept Henne in at QB. Henne was terrible. Now, he wasnt quite as bad as Painter, but he was certainly capable of losing every game. He was not good thats for sure. He was good at keeping our offense out of the endzone.

    3) They shouldve never signed Matt Moore. A capable backup was the last nail in the coffin for not getting Luck. The last thing you ever want to do is play a QB who is capable of winning games. Firing Sparano and playing Moore gave us no shot to suck for Luck. We were going to win games with Sparano and Henne out of the way. Had we rolled into the season with a terrible backup, we couldve justified playing him over Henne at any point and being even worse. Henne/Devlin wouldve been a recipe for success....... sucking for Luck.

    4) Just keeping Sparano and rolling with Henne/Devlin wouldve likely gotten the job done or at least given us an outstanding shot at 1-15 or 0-16. But, this last step was something the phins couldve definately done.............

    We needed to do what Carolina did and strip our roster of good veteran players who could make plays. If we had done this, there is no question we couldve gotten Luck. Instead we added guys like Reggie Bush who could make plays.

    All the pieces were in place for us to do it, but I will tell you why we didnt. Because Ireland wouldve never survived a horrible season like that. For him to come full circle from the 1-15 disaster he took over wouldve been the end of him. The only way we couldve done it wouldve been for the plan to come straight from Ross. Ross wouldve had to instruct Ireland to put the plan in place to suck for Luck and ASSURE him that despite the **** storm that wouldve been coming from the fans and media for his job in the offseason, that he wouldve kept his job as GM.

    I suppose Ireland couldve gone to Ross with a suck for Luck plan, but if he does that he cant be assured that Ross wouldnt back stab him and fire him at seasons end. The order had to come from Ross. Im sure Ireland may have thought about it and wanted to do it, but there is no way he can take that idea to his boss. His boss had to come to him with it. I just dont see Ross being that football smart to think of it.

    After all of this, what is so stupid is that we had already gone 1-15 once and been in place to take an elite QB with pick #1. We inadvertantly sucked for Matty Ice and Parcells' dumbass was too stupid to take him.
    Excellent post. Thank you for your work on this and I agree completely. I believe Reggie Wayne was in on it too. The game that convinced me is the one where they had a chance to win and he threw the ball on the ground untouched. It made my jaw drop that they could be so blantant about it. Of course Reggie got a new contract with the Colts too.
    The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche
    Quote Quote  

  2. -32
    DANTODUPER's Avatar
    Scout Team

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    518
    vCash:
    1611
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by WVDolphan View Post
    After all of this, what is so stupid is that we had already gone 1-15 once and been in place to take an elite QB with pick #1. We inadvertantly sucked for Matty Ice and Parcells' dumbass was too stupid to take him.
    I agree with you. After seeing the overated Jake Long being abused year after year by athletic DE's, I think that was our biggest mistake on draft day since Ireland. Now we just need to pray that Tannehill is our franchise QB. So far he looks better than Henne, Beck and White. I think the worst case scenario he becomes a Flacco, the best ... he becomes a Steve Young. (hopefully)
    Quote Quote  

  3. -33
    sharp's Avatar
    Scout Team

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2005
    Posts:
    3,337
    vCash:
    2634
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Zounds View Post
    I dont believe the players were in on tanking last season. I seriously doubt that.

    I will say the fact that Curtis Painter wasn't pulled as the stater last year until they sured up the #1 overall pick is very suspicious.
    I wouldn't go as far as saying that guys like garcon would fumble on purpose at end of games, but they did a lot of dumb things that most teams don't do. They let the injured guys ride the pine and like you said about painter playing. Just a total lack of will to win, basically packing it in for the next season. They played it well. We had too much pride to go down like that and the coach's job was on the line. Luck is great but im happy with Tannehill for the future.

    (On Miami sports teams being popular)

    -“That’s not competition,” LeBron said. “That’s like you rooting for your family members. That’s not competition at all. It would be great to have him, but we’ll see.”

    305
    Quote Quote  

  4. -34
    royalshank's Avatar
    Scout Team

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2006
    Posts:
    1,290
    vCash:
    4409
    Loc:
    New Jersey
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by rvz1020 View Post
    after watching the game Sunday there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that the colts tanked last year. Yes a great qb will make a world of difference but after winning what was it? 2 wins last year? And now they have 5 wins midway thru this yr just proves it. I didn't see a colts defense that was getting shredded in every game last year. It is just too night and day from last year to this year. I can't believe the NFL allowed this to go on. The NFL should have implemented the NBA draft lottery and have a lottery. What is everyone's bought on these cheating colts and the idea of using the NBA draft lottery?
    Right on bro. I said it after the Colts were 0-5 that they just threw in the towel. They only started to win a couple after they pretty much had the no 1 pick locked up. And Irsay is such a @#$# that you know he told the coaches to "lose". I complained all last season about what was going on but who's going to listen? It was so obvious.
    Quote Quote  

  5. -35
    J. David Wannyheimer's Avatar
    Why did it have to be snakes?

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2011
    Posts:
    14,314
    vCash:
    68726
    Thanks / No Thanks
    1972 Dolphins Logo
    Quote Originally Posted by Codemaster View Post
    Excellent post. Thank you for your work on this and I agree completely. I believe Reggie Wayne was in on it too. The game that convinced me is the one where they had a chance to win and he threw the ball on the ground untouched. It made my jaw drop that they could be so blantant about it. Of course Reggie got a new contract with the Colts too.
    Yep, I remember that play. Was bizarre.
    Oh no, we suck again!
    Quote Quote  

  6. -36
    DolfanISS's Avatar
    Perennial All-Pro

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Aug 2002
    Posts:
    7,970
    vCash:
    8797
    Loc:
    Bellingham, MA
    Thanks / No Thanks

    Colts tanked in 2011 - revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by rvz1020 View Post
    after watching the game Sunday there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that the colts tanked last year. Yes a great qb will make a world of difference but after winning what was it? 2 wins last year? And now they have 5 wins midway thru this yr just proves it. I didn't see a colts defense that was getting shredded in every game last year. It is just too night and day from last year to this year. I can't believe the NFL allowed this to go on. The NFL should have implemented the NBA draft lottery and have a lottery. What is everyone's bought on these cheating colts and the idea of using the NBA draft lottery?
    So the 07 Dolphins must have tanked for Jake Long. Afterall they went 1-15 with a defense that couldn't even stop Daunte Culpepper and the Raiders then won the AFC East the next season. That was so unfair.

    Still think Indy just sucked ass last year. Someone mentioned Kerry Collins, well if you can remember the players said he could never learn the offense fast enough and Painter should be the starter. There's no doubt this all started with Painter being the QB, having a bad QB will lead to many losses we know that. I can also believe there were times in games where the players felt like they had no shot and mailed it in. At the end of the day the 6-10 Dolphins weren't gonna get the 1st overall pick anyway and if you were getting excited about it at 0-7, you're an idiot. I would have started getting excited maybe at like 0-13, 0-14, but 0-7 haha are you kidding?

    And is the Colts defense that good? Maybe it's our offense, lets not forget our buddy Sparano and his crappy offense hung 35 points on them. Hard to believe the Jets could hang 35 points on anyone having seen them play us. I just think we didn't have a very good day offensively.

    Also the Colts were slightly more competitive then we were in 07. They lost 7 games by 10 points or more and we had lost 9. They lost to KC by one and many games by 8 or less. They also almost won in week 17, not sure if that would have screwed up their pick or not.
    Last edited by DolfanISS; 11-07-2012 at 08:27 PM.
    Quote Quote  

  7. -37
    Rookie

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Nov 2012
    Posts:
    21
    vCash:
    1167
    Thanks / No Thanks
    You guys are hilarious and obviously still mad Luck wiped his ass with your defense. We only have 20...TWENTY...players from last year. Out of the pathetic group of 53. Our ENTIRE team is new. New coaching staff, Gm, QB, RBS, WRs you name it. Alot changes when you have a top QB and actual coaching. We sucked ass last year because there was inept coaching and players starting that were at best 2nd stringers on other teams. Many people say "its obvious because their defense was pathetic last year now look at them now". Like I said, Almost every defensive player is new. And we have awesome coaches now. There was no tanking invloved, just pathetic football play last year. If the Rams got Luck you guys would be saying they tanked too... which they didnt. They were just bad like us.
    Quote Quote  

  8. -38
    Rookie

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Nov 2012
    Posts:
    21
    vCash:
    1167
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Did you guys tank in 07? Did the Lions tank in 08? Rams in 09?
    This board is hilarious.....
    Quote Quote  

  9. -39
    Rookie

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Nov 2012
    Posts:
    21
    vCash:
    1167
    Thanks / No Thanks
    If the Colts lost this game none of you would come up with these dumb ideas...
    Quote Quote  

  10. -40
    roy_miami's Avatar
    Rookies

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2008
    Posts:
    6,115
    vCash:
    24847
    Loc:
    Moncton, NB
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by WVDolphan View Post
    They did tank, but not in the way most people are thinking.

    The only players you are going to get to fall in line with an order to tank would possibly be established vets who have a contract in place or a nod from the organization that their play in the season in question will not effect their pay on their next contract. Basically, its almost nobody. Maybe Freeney.

    Players are out there trying to earn a living. Their play is on film. They are going to try their best. They cant just trust an organization to take care of them. Also, they put themselves at risk for injury if they arent playing the game right. So the idea that it was a team wide conspiracy to tank is total bull****. HOWEVER............

    There was definately a plan within the organization to tank that season once Peyton Manning was injured and couldnt start the season. Here are the steps........

    1) Peyton Manning was not allowed to take the field. There is no doubt in my mind Peyton could have played towards the end of last season, probably even the entire 2nd half or more. Over playing his injury and the team convincing him that he would be putting himself at risk was part of the plan to suck for Luck. If Manning plays, they win games.

    2) Playing a completely inept QB over a guy who was somewhat capable of getting something done. These 2 were the real key. Curtis Painter had no business in an NFL uniform, much less starting games. Everyone knew this. The guy they had on the bench(Orlovski of whatever his name was) was much more capable of winning. Thats why he didnt get in the game. That guy was a legit backup NFL QB, so he sat while they rolled out Painter.

    3) Keeping a total bewb in there to manage the games. Jim Caldwell was completely clueless. This was known for years, but when they had Manning in there, everyone knew Manning managed the games so the HC wasnt much of a factor. Once Manning went down, Caldwell was in charge.

    QB play is so important, that those simple steps alone were a recipe to lose almost every game on a roster that wasnt exactly great. True, if they had a good QB they are a winning team, but Painter was so bad their offense had no shot.

    Now, whether or not a couple of vets were in on the plan is debateable. I kind of doubt it. The one thing they can do is not play certain guys. If a player were in on it, he could simply not play due to "injury" and get himself a season of rest. There are very few players who would be willing to do this and it would take a special circumstance.

    The one thing you could go back and check is if they shed some of their veteran players off the roster. I think they did.

    If you take those steps above, its a recipe for sucking for Luck. Its never a guarantee, but it give you a great shot.




    Having said all of that, take a look at what the Panthers did the previous season. I called that one from the start of the season. There is no question in my mind they sucked for Luck. Problem is, their plan back fired on them as Luck did not come out. I know they didnt suck for Newton. Right now they suck with Newton.

    But, look at what the Panthers did before that season. They completely stripped their roster of key veteran players by cutting most of them and trading the ones that could get them anything back. They rolled out a completely lame duck HC who none of the players would respect because they all knew he was getting fired at seasons end. It was an organizational plan to tank the season. They set it up to where they knew no matter how hard the players played, they werent going to win. Simple as that.



    Now, could the phins have sucked for Luck last year? You bet your ass they couldve made a solid run at it if they tried. However, they obviously didnt. They definately had the pieces in place to give it a run though.

    1) They couldve left Sparano at HC. I seriously thought this mightve been the plan when they brought him back. Sparano was clueless. He could definately botch games while trying to win. Despite the extention, everyone on the team knew he was on his way out and it was a big factor in them losing early in the year. I think its obvious from some of the statements from players coming out that the players did not respect him.

    But, if they really wanted to suck for Luck, they should not have extended him. They shouldve just let him coach while on that last year of the contract and make it totally obvious he was a lame duck. This wouldve been bad for the team, which of course means good if you get Luck out of it.

    2) They shouldve kept Henne in at QB. Henne was terrible. Now, he wasnt quite as bad as Painter, but he was certainly capable of losing every game. He was not good thats for sure. He was good at keeping our offense out of the endzone.

    3) They shouldve never signed Matt Moore. A capable backup was the last nail in the coffin for not getting Luck. The last thing you ever want to do is play a QB who is capable of winning games. Firing Sparano and playing Moore gave us no shot to suck for Luck. We were going to win games with Sparano and Henne out of the way. Had we rolled into the season with a terrible backup, we couldve justified playing him over Henne at any point and being even worse. Henne/Devlin wouldve been a recipe for success....... sucking for Luck.

    4) Just keeping Sparano and rolling with Henne/Devlin wouldve likely gotten the job done or at least given us an outstanding shot at 1-15 or 0-16. But, this last step was something the phins couldve definately done.............

    We needed to do what Carolina did and strip our roster of good veteran players who could make plays. If we had done this, there is no question we couldve gotten Luck. Instead we added guys like Reggie Bush who could make plays.

    All the pieces were in place for us to do it, but I will tell you why we didnt. Because Ireland wouldve never survived a horrible season like that. For him to come full circle from the 1-15 disaster he took over wouldve been the end of him. The only way we couldve done it wouldve been for the plan to come straight from Ross. Ross wouldve had to instruct Ireland to put the plan in place to suck for Luck and ASSURE him that despite the **** storm that wouldve been coming from the fans and media for his job in the offseason, that he wouldve kept his job as GM.

    I suppose Ireland couldve gone to Ross with a suck for Luck plan, but if he does that he cant be assured that Ross wouldnt back stab him and fire him at seasons end. The order had to come from Ross. Im sure Ireland may have thought about it and wanted to do it, but there is no way he can take that idea to his boss. His boss had to come to him with it. I just dont see Ross being that football smart to think of it.

    After all of this, what is so stupid is that we had already gone 1-15 once and been in place to take an elite QB with pick #1. We inadvertantly sucked for Matty Ice and Parcells' dumbass was too stupid to take him.
    Bravo!! 100% how I feel.

    A lottery makes too much sense. Manning was said to be worth something like $500 million to the the colts franchise, Luck may be worth even more. Even if the Colts didn't tank it is inevitable that somebody will (or already has as you alluded to), its just human nature. The draft system they have in place was good in theory at the time but now its time to tweak it. When they came up with the system I doubt they realized that a single player could be worth more than every other player in the next 10 drafts combined. Also, you never want to put the fans of a franchise in a position to hope for losses.

    Plus the Lottery for the NBA brings big ratings, its another opportunity for the NFL to make a buck.

    If they do it I think they should come up with something pretty creative, don't just copy the NBA. For example, the worst 3 teams draw for draft order regardless of record. Then have a weighted draw for teams 1-20 where the lower teams get a better chance at winning the lottery but even give the 20th team a 1% shot. Finally, the winner of the draw doesn't just get the first pick, they get the choice of trading multiple picks for it, which picks would depend on their original draft position. If the 20th place team won they could trade their first, second and third for it as an example.
    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. "Tanked" on Animal Planet
    By Dolfan3773 in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-19-2012, 11:26 PM
  2. We should have tanked.
    By Vertical Limit in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 03-18-2012, 12:00 PM
  3. How does looming 2011 lockout effect 2011 draft?
    By Minnphin in forum NFL Draft Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-20-2010, 02:36 PM
  4. T-Wolves Owner Suggests KG 'Tanked It'
    By BAMAPHIN 22 in forum Other Sports
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-19-2008, 11:52 PM
  5. AJ vs. Gus revisited.
    By Megatron in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 10-24-2005, 08:40 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •