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Thread: Thoughts on ObamaCare?

  1. -31
    dcnr226's Avatar
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    Thoughts on ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    CBO shows a net savings for the government by having Obamacare in place. Tax payers end up footing the bill when people don't pay their hospital bills as is, so how exactly is Obamacare any different? In fact, this makes it cheaper for some families, because they can keep their kids on their insurance plan until they're 25. It also means insurance companies can't refuse to cover anyone. I'd prefer if it wasn't privatized, but it's a step in the right direction. Eventually we'll have true socialized healthcare, and when we do, I can guarantee everyone is going to wonder why the hell they were so against it in the first place...
    The problem is the President went the easy route and placed the onus of healthcare on businesses, in a time where businesses should be empowered to made able to grow. If the President would've had the testicular fortitude to push for single payer, making society as a whole responsible for the degenerates, that would've been fair. Businesses across the country are thinking of any possible way to contract, including ours.

    Over the next 13 months, we will see the ramifications of imposing on the free market. When unemployment skyrockets, NO ONE that supported President Obama should complain.
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  2. -32
    Locke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcnr226 View Post
    The problem is the President went the easy route and placed the onus of healthcare on businesses, in a time where businesses should be empowered to made able to grow. If the President would've had the testicular fortitude to push for single payer, making society as a whole responsible for the degenerates, that would've been fair. Businesses across the country are thinking of any possible way to contract, including ours.

    Over the next 13 months, we will see the ramifications of imposing on the free market. When unemployment skyrockets, NO ONE that supported President Obama should complain.
    Unemployment isn't going to skyrocket. Most companies provide healthcare for their full-time employees anyways. Besides, there is a bare minimum of employees a business needs to run itself profitably. If you think most business don't already hire as few people as possible already, I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying...

    If I could take your pain and frame it, and hang it on my wall,
    maybe you would never have to hurt again...

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  3. -33
    spydertl79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcnr226 View Post
    The problem is the President went the easy route and placed the onus of healthcare on businesses, in a time where businesses should be empowered to made able to grow. If the President would've had the testicular fortitude to push for single payer, making society as a whole responsible for the degenerates, that would've been fair. Businesses across the country are thinking of any possible way to contract, including ours.

    Over the next 13 months, we will see the ramifications of imposing on the free market. When unemployment skyrockets, NO ONE that supported President Obama should complain.
    Why would your business have to contract? Are your full time employees currently not offered a healthcare plan?

    I suspect a lot of businesses will use this as an excuse to outsource even though the numbers don't match up to reality.
    "As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand."
    Henry Wheeler Shaw
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  4. -34
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    Re: Thoughts on ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    Unemployment isn't going to skyrocket. Most companies provide healthcare for their full-time employees anyways. Besides, there is a bare minimum of employees a business needs to run itself profitably. If you think most business don't already hire as few people as possible already, I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying...
    Most companies are at their bare minimum now due to the economy and further cuts will just destroy service and quality but it will happen. Unlike the government, for-profit companies will change their business model and will gut their staff to survive because their survival is not guaranteed. There are many layers of costs associated with the ACA outside of just providing health insurance. I attended a seminar a couple of weeks ago on the business of complying with the ACA and the administrative/tax side of this is going to be horrific for companies.

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    1. Healthcare is too expensive
    2. Malpractice insurance is too high
    3. Insurance companies are crooked
    4. Most thing run by the government don't turn out well
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  6. -36
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    I have a bit of a different take on the US Healthcare system, simply because I'm 1) Dual Citizen (Canada and US) and have doctors in my immediate family that practice in the US, others who practice in Canada. I worked for a pediatrician after college, doing his medical billing at his private practice (two offices). I assisted in the book keeping of both my mother (orthodontist) and father (pediatric dentist/oral surgeon). I also worked (albeit incredibly brief) as an unlicensed attorney for two former doctors-turned-lawyers who now handle practice management. I've seen it all, and have been fortunate enough to become exposed to it all. (This wasn't to brag, but to shed some light on my background and give some insight as to my "credentials")

    Regardless - it's simple. I heard it growing up, and I've learned it myself. Every single place I go, it's the same problem.

    Insurance companies. The US needs insurance reform. We had tort reform in Florida to stop the insane medical malpractice lawsuits from happening, we now need a federal insurance reform. These companies are robbing customers (AND DOCTORS) blind. Private practice doctors know all too well. Their fee schedules (a listing from their insurance company, assuming they are on their plans, that provides a detailed list of reimbursements for each action) are a joke. You can bill at that number, but you better believe that systematically there will be rejections simply because company policy dictates there be. So now a doctor, a man that these insurance companies ALL agree is worth roughly $400-$1500 an hour (depending what type of doctor and his specialty) has to take his time (or pay someone to do it, but most successful private practice doctors I've interacted with keep a fairly strong hold on their finances)
    and fill these out. Guess what happens most of the time?

    "While Cigna/BCBS/United has received your certified letter of appeal with regards to XXXX, we currently will offer XXXX (typically 60-70% of the fee schedule)" because they hope the doctor will look at this $150-300 difference and say you know what? It's not worth my time. I'll take it.

    Don't believe me? Go to any doctor that is private practice in a system of preventative care. Pediatrician, Dentist, Dermatologist, etc. Go there, and don't tell them you have insurance just yet (although a front desk person worth their job will immediately ask to see if you're a fee for service or insured)

    Ask them if you can get a pricing on simple items (new patient exam, is what they are typically known as). Guess what you'll get? Their fee schedule prices. The prices they charge the insurance company. Now tell them you're a fee for service (i.e. cash) customer. Know what you'll get? The bottom dollar price. If he isn't giving a discount, then you're doctor is incredibly wealthy and likely does not only NOT need you as a patient, but will likely not give you the benefit of "small town doctor" type stuff. This discount is massive. As in 50% massive. That's why this happens. No haggling with the insurance companies, the doctor knows exactly what's happening at the moment, and it's cash in his hand.

    It's why a large majority of the snowbirds from Canada pay out of pocket for their expenses, medically, while retaining the health care from Canada. Insurance only makes sense, from a fiscal point of view, for incredibly large life threatening problems. Otherwise, these preventative care measures are absolutely lining the pockets of insurance companies at the expense of the health and well-being of others. It's disturbing to me. It's disturbing to most doctors. Do the doctors I know of like "Obamacare"? Not really. Do they like the current system? The ones who still genuinely care about their patients/general well being of the public do.

    Just don't ask my dad what he thinks, because he was a large scale medicaid provider for a very long time, and he's now ruined as a result. People simply don't take care of themselves, and it's both disgusting and sad. There has to be some degree of accountability but when you're being handed free things, sometimes it slips through the cracks. Look at medicare. People will gladly allow their kids to sip on soda all night long, after countless urging by a doctor to stop, simply because "Oh well I'll just take him to the doctor and he'll fix him up. WHAT YOU MEAN MEDICAID WON'T PAY FOR IT JUST BECAUSE ITS THE THIRD VISIT THIS MONTH!?" We have to put up with those people, and reward them, for the sake of those who aren't like this but simply need a helping hand. Nobody should avoid going to a doctor because they can't afford it. That, to me, is fundamentally wrong.

    Politics rant: Just cut the bull****, quit spending billions of dollars, and legalize marijuana. Tax it like cigarettes. HEAVILY. 35-40% heavy. Do you have any idea the amount of money we could not only inject into our government, but also cut out flat out irresponsible spending practices? The U.S. spends over SIX BILLION DOLLARS a year to house people who have been convicted of nothing more than possession of marijuana. That's ****ing ridiculous.

    For a prime example, look at The Netherlands. They have a private care hospital, and a free hospital. Majority of the free hospital funding comes from taxing the head shops and coffee shops. And their services are great. The wait is a bit, but you're still receiving care. I fell off my bike while studying over in Amsterdam, and hurt my wrist. 3 hours later, at the cost of ZERO dollars, I was fixed up. Without even being a citizen.

    Sorry for the wall of text, but I have a lot of experience in this field (as previously mentioned) and I'm incredibly passionate about it.
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  7. -37
    Awsi Dooger's Avatar
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    As others have pointed out, it doesn't go nearly far enough but it's a necessary step in the right direction.

    Once it's fully implemented it will become more popular, and bust the 50% approval rating. It was always hilarious the Republicans thought they could make this a tipping point issue when the approval number was not far below 50/50 to begin with. Conservatives have been conveniently skewing polls for years, not months. Relying on fear, the typical tired game plan.

    Alan Grayson's summary of the GOP health care plan is exponentially more accurate than the typical Republican's description of Obamacare.
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  8. -38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger View Post
    As others have pointed out, it doesn't go nearly far enough but it's a necessary step in the right direction.

    Once it's fully implemented it will become more popular, and bust the 50% approval rating. It was always hilarious the Republicans thought they could make this a tipping point issue when the approval number was not far below 50/50 to begin with. Conservatives have been conveniently skewing polls for years, not months. Relying on fear, the typical tired game plan.

    Alan Grayson's summary of the GOP health care plan is exponentially more accurate than the typical Republican's description of Obamacare.
    The main reason the Republicans wanted to make it Waterloo was because they knew how popular it would become.
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    Thoughts on ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    CBO shows a net savings for the government by having Obamacare in place. Tax payers end up footing the bill when people don't pay their hospital bills as is, so how exactly is Obamacare any different? In fact, this makes it cheaper for some families, because they can keep their kids on their insurance plan until they're 25. It also means insurance companies can't refuse to cover anyone. I'd prefer if it wasn't privatized, but it's a step in the right direction. Eventually we'll have true socialized healthcare, and when we do, I can guarantee everyone is going to wonder why the hell they were so against it in the first place...
    I was listening to NPR Now today. There is a small university that just announced a portion of their staff will be converted from full time employees to part-time at 25 hours a week. This is because they cannot afford the healthcare plans for their employees, and every employee that works 30 or more hours must be covered. Thanks to the new rules the unfortunate employees earn less money and still do not have healthcare. I do not see how this helps people. For those of you who believe this an isolated incident, just wait for the mass conversion of positions in 2013 to part-time workers.
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    Thoughts on ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetragrammaton View Post
    The main reason the Republicans wanted to make it Waterloo was because they knew how popular it would become.
    I am hopeful that my evaluation of the true impacts to the economy are not correct, but I believe you are going to receive a rude shock within the next two years.
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