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Thread: What the World Doesn't Know About Healthcare in America

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    LouPhinFan's Avatar
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    What the World Doesn't Know About Healthcare in America

    Like the Olympic tribute to Britain’s NHS, countries wear nationalized health systems as badges of pride. In those same countries, assertions like “fifty million Americans have no access to care” and “US health care is scandalous” are widespread. Despite their frequency, these denunciations are wholly contradicted by facts.

    No charge is repeated more often than this statistic: 16%, almost 50 million Americans, lack health insurance. But ten million were not even US citizens; millions more claimed to have no health insurance but were using insurance; and 13 million adults and 5 million children were already eligible for government insurance, but had not enrolled. Claims about uninsured Americans have been greatly exaggerated.

    The truth is that health insurance does not equate with health care access. Statistics Canada stated “waiting time has been identified as a key measure of access.” Affirming 2005’s Chaoulli v. Quebec, in which Supreme Court justices famously concluded “access to a waiting list is not access to health care,” countless studies document grave consequences from prolonged waits. A growing list of European countries, including Denmark, England, Finland, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, and Sweden, have been forced by public outcry and laws to address unacceptable waits for care.

    Meanwhile, it is understood that “waiting lists are not a feature in the United States,” as stated in a 2007 study and separately underscored by the OECD (“[the US is] a country where waiting time is not a policy concern”). Indeed, Americans would be stunned to hear the reality of nationalized insurance:


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...#ixzz2CQ3mNW2s
    I usually don't pay much attention to Foxnews.com stories but this one has more statistics to back up its premise than most of the stories on that website.
    Insert pithy saying here.

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    phins_4_ever's Avatar
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    A friend of mine is German. I will get some details from him.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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    Think we some of this from a "Yankees payroll hate" in regards to healthcare from the world. It's just not fair we spend so much to have the best healthcare service in the world.
    Last edited by Eshlemon; 11-19-2012 at 03:55 PM.
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    jared81's Avatar
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    My main problem with healthcare reform is the burden it puts on small businesses. It continues to shift the burden of healthcare from the individual to the companies we work for. I can only speak for the Orlando area, but the majority of small business I work with (about 400), feel like they will certainly have to cut jobs or not hire what they projected for 2013. I hope many of the people who voted for Obama (college students, lower income) get exactly what they deserve.
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    phins_4_ever's Avatar
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    OK. I talked to my friend but I let him do the write up and I will post it here. Just too much info and before I get it wrong I rather have him do it.
    For a disclaimer: he is German but lives in the US. He experienced the difference between government healthcare and private healthcare in Germany first hand the last two years. According to him there is a huge difference, monumental. A government run hospital is hands down better - and still profitable.

    But more later.

    BTW when I talked to him about that healthcare stuff he asked me why I wanted to know all these things. I mentioned the PoFo and he was laughing. He used to be a member here too.
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    jared81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    OK. I talked to my friend but I let him do the write up and I will post it here. Just too much info and before I get it wrong I rather have him do it.
    For a disclaimer: he is German but lives in the US. He experienced the difference between government healthcare and private healthcare in Germany first hand the last two years. According to him there is a huge difference, monumental. A government run hospital is hands down better - and still profitable.

    But more later.

    BTW when I talked to him about that healthcare stuff he asked me why I wanted to know all these things. I mentioned the PoFo and he was laughing. He used to be a member here too.
    Thats great and all. But I have friends from Canada and one of my best friends is from England. All of them hate the way their healthcare system is run. My friend from England's dad died from stomach cancer and blames a lot of the lack of diagnosis on the healthcare system in the uk. Just because you/I know someone from Europe and they have an opinion, doesn't mean it's a fact.
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    phins_4_ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jared81 View Post
    Thats great and all. But I have friends from Canada and one of my best friends is from England. All of them hate the way their healthcare system is run. My friend from England's dad died from stomach cancer and blames a lot of the lack of diagnosis on the healthcare system in the uk. Just because you/I know someone from Europe and they have an opinion, doesn't mean it's a fact.
    I know it hurts your conservative heart but individual lack of diagnosis or a false diagnosis happens here too. It happens everywhere. It is just a matter of percentage.

    I am not focusing on individual cases but rather what does a certain health care system do for the majority of the population. No system is perfect and there will always be individuals who will not be happy but it is not about the individual here.

    I certainly don't know how the health care system works in the England or Canada. Nor do I claim to know how it works in Germany. I just offered a perspective from someone living in the US for over 20 years yet has personal experience from a different country and can put both side-by-side and make an evaluation.

    And Germany is by far not some **** hole or has a Monarchy where the money lives in huge palaces right next to people having trouble putting food on the table (England) or has a single payer system (Canada). Just listening to him I think Germany is the perfect example to run a comparison between public option vs private insurance and government run hospitals vs private hospitals because they have all that. It may hurt your conservative feelings but it is what it is.

    No system is perfect and Germany is not even in the top 10 or top 20. But it shows you how pathetic we are in the middle of civilized nations when it comes to the health care services and health care providers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    I know it hurts your conservative heart but individual lack of diagnosis or a false diagnosis happens here too. It happens everywhere. It is just a matter of percentage.

    I am not focusing on individual cases but rather what does a certain health care system do for the majority of the population. No system is perfect and there will always be individuals who will not be happy but it is not about the individual here.

    I certainly don't know how the health care system works in the England or Canada. Nor do I claim to know how it works in Germany. I just offered a perspective from someone living in the US for over 20 years yet has personal experience from a different country and can put both side-by-side and make an evaluation.

    And Germany is by far not some **** hole or has a Monarchy where the money lives in huge palaces right next to people having trouble putting food on the table (England) or has a single payer system (Canada). Just listening to him I think Germany is the perfect example to run a comparison between public option vs private insurance and government run hospitals vs private hospitals because they have all that. It may hurt your conservative feelings but it is what it is.

    No system is perfect and Germany is not even in the top 10 or top 20. But it shows you how pathetic we are in the middle of civilized nations when it comes to the health care services and health care providers.
    so we should trust people you know and not people I know. Gotcha! I agree with tetra when he said we shouldn't believe one person or another because those opinions are formed on political ideology. My friends from Canada and the uk just happen to be conservative. Your friend I am sure is a liberal (even though you will never admit it). The problem with out system is efficiency, not insurance reform ( which is the only thing that is changing and will cost millions of jobs).
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    Quote Originally Posted by jared81 View Post
    so we should trust people you know and not people I know. Gotcha! I agree with tetra when he said we shouldn't believe one person or another because those opinions are formed on political ideology. My friends from Canada and the uk just happen to be conservative. Your friend I am sure is a liberal (even though you will never admit it). The problem with out system is efficiency, not insurance reform ( which is the only thing that is changing and will cost millions of jobs).
    How I hate this labeling. So typical right wing (now there is a label for you). I have a surprise for you: nobody will ask you at a doctor's office or the hospital if you are conservative or liberal. Nor does anybody has to listen to my friend or act upon his opinion. He is giving his opinion and his opinion alone based on his experience. You also don't have to trust him. You obviously have a trust issue with anybody remotely disagreeing with you.
    I don't diss or dismiss your friends. And I don't care if they are conservatives or not. They have their experiences and I trust they are true. I know it is a philosophy you can not subscribe to.

    The question I have for your friends is: have they lived under our system for at least a decade? Or do they know only their 'home' system. Technically I don't know any other health care system than ours. So my opinion will always be based on reading and the opinion of others who lived under a different system. But I tell you what you will be hard pressed to find anybody who lived under a different system, then lived under our system for over 20 years and has first hand knowledge of a different system for the passed two years.

    Just to make you sleep better: we don't talk much politics. I would throw him into the conservative side based on him being definitely in the top 1%. The few talks we have show simply that he has a slight liberal, progressive tendency as well. I would put him into the middle of the road.
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    Tetragrammaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    And Germany is by far not some **** hole or has a Monarchy where the money lives in huge palaces right next to people having trouble putting food on the table (England) or has a single payer system (Canada).
    What do you have against the English monarchy?
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