Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.

VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 1 of 8 123456 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 73

Thread: The Ireland Mythology Index

  1. -1
    Spesh's Avatar

    Join date:
    Apr 2007
    Thanks / No Thanks

    The Ireland Mythology Index


    The purpose of this post is to give an accurate account of Jeff Irelands time on this team. If any information is missing or incorrect it is not due to sinister motives. For quotes I try and always provide the link, for draft information I used NFL’s draft history page, for trades/free agents/hold outs I used a google search and got various sources. Everything else should be my opinion.


    The players that are underlined are those still on this team. The players whose names are bolded are currently free agents or out of the league. Those left alone are on other teams. I will not be doing either of those things for our latest draft class. Almost all of them should be on this team or practice squad. If they are not, it was a completely wasted draft pick.
    Keep in mind, this list might be a bit imperfect as it is often difficult to track down players who are simply signed to fill out rosters. As well, I will not differentiate the quality of the players, as that is subjective. Some of who appear to be on teams are on practice squads or have only been signed to fill a roster spot after an injury. Regardless, they are on a team and that is all that is required.

    1) (1st) Jake Long. 2) (32nd) Phillip Merling. 3) (57th) Chad Henne. 3) (66th) Kendall Langford. 4) (110th) Shawn Murphy. 6) (176th) Jalen Parmele. 6) (195th) Donald Thomas. 6) (204th) Lex Hilliard. 7) (245th) Lionel Dotson

    1) (25th) Vontae Davis. 2) (44th) Pat White. 2) (61st) Sean Smith. 3) (87th) Patrick Turner. 4) (108th) Brian Hartline. 5) (161st) John Nalbone. 5) (165th) Chris Clemons. 6) (181st) Andrew Gardner. 7) (214th) J.D. Folsom

    1) (28th) Jared Odrick. 2) (40th) Koa Misi. 3) (73rd) John Jerry. 4) (119th) A.J. Edds. 5) (145th) Nolan Carroll. 5) (163rd) Reshad Jones. 7) (212th) Chris McCoy. 7) (252nd) Austin Spitler

    1) (15th) Mike Pouncey. 2) (62nd) Daniel Thomas. 4) (111th) Edmond Gates. 6) (174th) Charles Clay. 7) (231st) Frank Kearse. 7) (235th) Jimmy Wilson

    1) (8th) Ryan Tannehill. 2) (42nd) Jonathan Martin. 3) (72nd) Oliver Vernon. 3) (78th) Michael Egnew. 4) (97th) Lamar Miller. 5) (155th) Josh Kaddu. 6) (183rd) B.J. Cunningham. 7) (215th) Kheeston Randall. 7) (227th) Rishard Matthews

    Of the 32 players drafted from 2008-2011, only 14 remain on our team. That does not take into account players such as Chris Clemons and Nolan Carroll who are recently struggling or Koa Misi who had to change positions to find any sort of success.

    Free Agency and Trades

    For this section I am only going to list those that have made noticeable impact or were fairly big or noteworthy signings and trades. Every team regularly rotates players at the bottom of the roster.

    Earnest Wilford was signed in 2008 to a 4 year, $13 million contract with a $6 million signing bonus. He caught 3 passes and was released the following offseason after a failed attempt to convert him into a tight end.
    Reggie Torbor was signed in 2008 to a 4 year, $14 million contract. He was released in 2010.
    Justin Smiley was signed in 2008 to a 5 year, $25 million contract with $9 million guaranteed. He was traded to the Jaguars in 2010 for a conditional 7th round pick.
    Randy Starks was signed in 2008 to a 5 year, $21 million contract with $7 million guaranteed. He remains a very productive member of our team.
    Chad Pennington was signed in 2008 to a 2 year, $11.5 million contract. He was a productive member of our team the first year before getting injured in his second year. He was resigned to a 1 year, $5.75 million conditional contract. The condition was on if he was starting, it would drop to $2.5 million as a backup. He has since retired.
    Vernon Carey was resigned in 2009 to a 6 year, $42 million contract with $15 million guaranteed. He was forced to restructure his contract in 2011 and was released the following offseason.
    Yeremiah Bell was resigned in 2009 to a 4 year, $20 million contract with $10 million guaranteed. He was a productive member of our team until being cut before the 2012 season.
    Gibril Wilson was signed in 2009 to a 5 year, $27 million contract with $8 million guaranteed. He was released in 2010.
    Jake Grove was signed in 2009 to a 5 year, $29 million contract with $14.5 million guaranteed. He was cut in 2010.
    Cam Wake was signed in 2009 to a 4 year, $4 million contract. He remains a very productive member of our team.
    Karlos Dansby was signed in 2010 to a 5 year, $43 million contract with $22 million guaranteed. He remains a productive member of our team.
    Richie Incognito was signed in 2010 to a 1 year contract. He was resigned in 2011 to a 3 year contract worth roughly $12 million. He remains on this team.
    Kevin Burnett was signed in 2011 to a 4 year, $20 million contract. He remains a productive member of our team.
    Marc Colombo was signed in 2011 to a 1 year, $2 million contract. This was a unforgivable sin.
    Paul Soliai was resigned in 2012 to a 2 year, $12 million contract.
    David Garrard was signed in 2012 to a 1 year, incentive laden contract. He was released before the season began.
    Jason Ferguson was acquired from Dallas in 2008 for a 6th round pick. He was a productive member of our team until his retirement in 2010.
    Anthony Fasano and Akin Ayodele were acquired in 2008 a 4th round pick. Fasano remains a productive member of our team while Ayodele was cut in 2010.
    Jason Taylor was traded to the Washington Redskins in 2008 for a 2nd and 6th round pick.
    Tony McDaniel was acquired from Jacksonville in 2009 for a 7th round pick. He is still a member of our team.
    Brandon Marshall was acquired from Denver in 2010 for two 2nd round picks. He was given a 4 year, $47.5 million contract extension with $24 million guaranteed. He was traded in 2012 for two 3rd round picks.
    Benny Sapp was acquired from the Vikings in 2010 for Greg Camarillo. Sapp was cut during the 2011 season.
    Reggie Bush was acquired from the Saints in 2011 for Jonathan Amaya and a swap of 6th round picks. He remains a productive member of our team.
    Vontae Davis was traded to the Colts in 2012 for a 2nd and 6th round pick.

    Of the 25 signings and trades I listed above 12 could be considered disasters. This list does not include the majority of the signings we made this offseason, which was an almost a complete failure. The only one who has “worked out” is Richard Marshall, who was recently put on Injury Reserve. If anyone was confused about why we didn’t have much cap room this past offseason, merely see the signings we made early in Irelands tenure.


    Matt Roth- A very curious episode for our team. To this day, I still haven’t found much information on what exactly happened. As I recall it, Roth had been disappointed about his contract, and then skipped camp because of an illness, only for that illness to turn into a supposed groin injury. He was cut during the season.

    Cam Wake- Wake did not attend the start of voluntary workouts this past offseason in protest. He was set to receive 650k for the final year of his contract. On May 6th he received a 4 year, $49 million contract extension.

    Ryan Tannehill- Tannehill missed the start of training camp over a contract dispute. The issue revolved around the concept of “offset language”. If Tannehill was cut and signed by another team, Miami did not want to pay the remainder of the original contract. For both sides the real issue revolved around the philosophical differences and not the actual money. Neither side wanted to set a precedent. The holdout lasted 2 days before Tannehill ended it out of a desire to return to practice. Miami successfully included the offset language but made Tannehill’s contract almost completely guaranteed so he would receive the vast majority of the money owed.

    Coaching search

    McCoy "reportedly has the support of Ireland, whose opinions carry significant weight with Ross," the Herald reports. However, the word is that it is a very close decision between McCoy and Philbin.

    Adam Schefter of ESPN is reporting that word around the league is that Stephen Ross wants to hire Joe Philbin while Jeff Ireland wants to hire Mike McCoy. It will be interesting to see who wins this battle and if Ireland gets his way then we really know he is here for the long haul and Ross has total belief in him.

    And he was even more confident after flying to New York for a Thursday interview because that went a full eight hours -- nine hours if you count the meal -- and afterward general manager Jeff Ireland told McCoy that if things went as expected, the team would send a plane for McCoy and the family to bring them from Denver back to South Florida on Friday.

    Logical fallacies

    Many on this forum stick to a few ill conceived notions. I’ll address a handful of them. Do note that I am not intentionally calling out specific posters, just general themes that currently exist.

    -Our plan is to build through the draft.

    Every team in the league plans to build through the draft. Every single one of them. Even those teams that hit free agency like a 16 year old teenager with her parents credit card declares it is building through the draft. Every once in awhile a team like the Jets and Eagles will pop up and spend hard, but that lasts for a season or two before the experiment fails and its back to the draft. Even those two examples aren’t particularly apt, the Jets hit free agency fairly hard after years of drafting high in the first round(sometimes multiple times in the first round) and the Eagles stock piled second round picks. I don’t expect people to take my declaration on faith alone, so here are three recent and vastly different examples:

    Haslam said on WKYC Ch. 3 during the third quarter. “We’re in this for the long run. We’re not going to knee-jerk. We’re going to hang with it. We’re going to build through the draft.

    Mike Shanahan: “But we talked about, when I came here, that with the salary cap you've got to build through the draft”.

    Hurney's philosophy has been to build through the draft and re-sign proven players rather than going after high-priced free agents.

    One is a brand new owner. The other just traded away a shocking amount of picks on a single player. The final one is a general manager who had been trading away high future picks for lower present picks. All insisting they were or will be building through the draft.

    -You can’t fire a general manager or else you will lose your coach.

    I’ve already established that Ireland played, at best, little role in hiring Philbin. Yet, people will undoubtedly go on believing that Ross will fire his handpicked head coach after a single season. So, to that effect, here is a list of General Managers hired after the head coach was hired:

    Rick Smith hired June 5, 2006. Gary Kubiak hired January 26, 2006.
    Jerry Reese hired 2007. Tom Coughlin hired January 6, 2004.
    Kevin Colbert hired 2000. Bill Cowher hired 1992.
    Randy Mueller, hired June 6, 2005. Nick Saban hired December 25, 2004
    Ozzie Newsome, hired November 22, 2002. Brian Billick hired January 19, 1999.
    Ted Thompson, hired 2005. Mike Sherman hired 2000.

    As you can see, some of the more talented and respected general managers (…oh and that other guy, Mueller) were hired after their coaches were on the team. Multiple general managers I listed are still on their respective teams and the coaches stayed for numerous years before any changes were made. From that list only Mike Sherman was fired after a single season though this was due to him accumulating one of the worst season records in franchise history. I chose those examples because of the diversity of situations. Every situation is different, which is my point. I find it hard to believe Ross would allow someone to fire his handpicked head coach.

    -Picking and choosing which events Ireland is responsible for.

    There isn’t much to say about this subject that hasn’t already been said. Many on this board feel the Pat White selection wasn’t Jeff Irelands fault. Many of those same people also make posts praising Ireland for signing Cameron Wake. I’m always amused by this, seeing as how both those events happened in the same offseason.

    Jeff Ireland has held the title of General Manager since 2008. He has been paid accordingly for that position. If he can literally cash the checks of a general manager, he should be held accountable as general manager.

    -We have to spend high draft picks on glaring holes.

    Many feel that our draft picks are justified because we have a glaring hole on the roster. This has been the “logic” used when selecting centers and right tackles in the top two rounds. Like many emotional reactions to devastating news, this notion has flaws.

    When Martin Mayhew drafted Ryan Broyles in the second round, many reporters and fans questioned the pick. After all, they had a glaring hole at cornerback and they had talented receivers. His response was merely pointing out that the team was strong at the wideout position today but it won’t be in the future. Nate Burleson is 31 years old and will surely start slowing down soon. In later interviews he and Jim Shwartz pointed out that talent rules their board and they grab what falls regardless of the position. One such interview is linked below. Bottom line is: The Lions successfully filled a hole before it was created.


    If another example is needed look no further than the 2011 draft. Going into the draft the Dallas Cowboys desperately needed offensive lineman. They were bleeding at that position and made it clear to everyone they would be addressing it. So, with the 9th overall pick, they selected Tyron Smith. Two picks later the Houston Texans drafted the most talented player on their board: J.J. Watt. Smith has become a pretty good tackle. Watt has become one of the best players in the league. And a year later the Cowboys are now noticing they need defensive ends.

    -Ireland killed the Orton trade.

    Just when the Dolphins were about to trade a fourth-round pick to the Broncos for quarterback Kyle Orton in August, Dolphins owner Stephen Ross declined to pay the three-year, $27 million extension that the quarterback and Miami already had agreed to, league sources said.

    -Its Irelands job to get the players Philbin wants.

    Jeff Ireland ultimately has a single job: to build a winning team. That’s it. As he isn’t also a coach the only way he can fulfill his job is to build a talented roster.

    How he does that is fairly irrelevant. If he does it by spending hard in free agency, so be it. If he does it by trading away all his draft picks for a single talented player, so be it. If he does it by drafting huge lineman, so be it. If he does it by drafting players Philbin wants, so be it. The only thing that matters is building a winning roster. Which is not to say some methods aren’t superior to others, but that’s beside the point.

    Coaches in this league have a high turnover rate. Every single season head coaching positions are open. I believe the average time span is now 2 years for head coaches. If your team has not improved during its second season, most don’t get a third. And that is just for head coaches. Position coaches and coordinators turn over even more, as they are often thrown under the bus by embattled head coaches. It’s simply not possible to reinvent our roster every single time we get a new coach. It’s much easier to merely adjust the playbook to the talent we have available to us.

    Alternative Candidates

    There are only 32 general manager jobs in the league. Only 32 jobs available that allow you to mold a franchise in your image. 32 jobs available that allow you to prove your way of team building is the correct way. 32 jobs available in which you are only answerable to the owner. Less, if you count teams such as Dallas and New England. I’m stressing this point to show that people will climb over each other for a chance to run a franchise. Last year, the Oakland general manager position was as bad as it gets. No cap, no draft picks, and a team filled with bad talent. Yet, even that didn’t scare off candidates. Many people threw their name into the hat including some who had secure jobs and could have waited a year for a better team to open its door.

    Regardless, no matter how much this post makes sense, people will ignore it because I didn’t provide any alternatives. As the notion that one shouldn’t criticize without offering a solution is fair, I will indulge this point. Note that this isn’t some final list and if they walk into Ross’ office and start talking about how they need to spend first round picks on offensive lineman, I would have no problem with Ross’ showing them the door. As well, this list will continue to evolve as actions around the league continue to develop. The list is in descending order, from most preferred to most hesitant.

    Russ Ball- the current Vice President of Football Administrations for the Green Bay Packers. Russ Ball is also in charge of Player Finance. In his current role he is responsible for negotiating player contracts and managing the salary cap. On top of what he would bring to the team, he also should have an established working relationship with Philbin.
    Scot McCoughlan- the former general manager for the 49’ers. He was let go by the 49’ers for “personal reasons” but has been in the running for other general manager jobs since. He is currently working in Seattle’s front office. With the exception of 2 offensive lineman and Aldon Smith, McCoughlan built the majority of the 49’ers team that is enjoying so much recent success.
    Brian Gaine- is our current Director of Player Personnel. He interviewed for the St. Louis Rams job last offseason and his name has been linked to various other general manager positions.
    Brian Xanders- the former Denver Broncos general manager. He was let go after John Elway felt he had enough experience to handle fulltime general manager duty. Xanders worked for three different coaches while in Denver, counting his year as assistant general manager during Shanahan’s reign, with no apparent problems or conflicts. The only concern is he never had full control of roster moves and draft selections.

    Going forward

    It would not be an exaggeration to say this coming offseason is the most important in franchise history. We will have 5 picks in the first three rounds and anywhere from $50-$60 million in cap space available. Given our current record and upcoming schedule it’s also plausible that we will have a top 10 pick in the draft. While it’s obvious to everyone why those things are important, it is also worth mentioning how the rest of the league will be affected by our offseason. Virtually any misstep can help every other team in the league. Every good player we miss is one the other teams do not. Every bad contract we create will lead to less cap money in the future, allowing other teams to sign players we are potentially interested in.

    I once read an article concerning the balance of power in the NFL and how it seems to shift every decade. The evidence was compelling. The 70’s and 00’s belonged to the AFC and the 80’s and 90’s belonged to the NFC. Those conferences usually had a higher number of top caliber teams and usually won the Superbowl at the end of the season. After a decade of dominance from the AFC, the balance seems to have shifted back towards the NFC.

    I mention this not to depress people, but to inspire. The AFC is wide open. Teams such as Denver and New England will fall back to earth after their quarterbacks retire in the next couple seasons. Teams with an established franchise quarterback such as the Colts will still require another couple of years to fully rebuild. The ammunition we have this coming offseason presents us with an opportunity to take a drastic early lead on rebuilding. And, as we’ve seen time and again, once you get to the Superbowl anything can happen.


    I left out a few noticeable subjects. Ireland has landed himself in hot water multiple times “off the field” since he has been here. Some free agents have walked out of his office and refused to sign with us. Ryan Clark identified Ireland as the biggest reason why he resigned with the Steelers. Peyton Manning refused to even step into a room with Ireland. Ireland might or might not have been physically present during the Harbaugh fiasco. Bobby Carpenter. Will Allen’s cutting and subsequent resigning after Benny Sapp was exposed. Some of the illogical beliefs that are just too farfetched.

    In the end, I don’t particularly care if you want to fire Jeff Ireland or not. I simply made this list to show exactly what he has done (and not done) since becoming our general manager and how some of the outspoken assumptions are incorrect in the face of evidence. For myself, I believe it’s obvious what we should do with our current situation. Everyone else will have to make their own opinion. Hopefully this post helps.
    Last edited by Spesh; 11-19-2012 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Spiketex correctly pointed out Spitler is still on roster

    Terrorist attack count against the Anything Goes Thread: 4
    Quote Quote  

  2. -2
    Phinatic8u's Avatar
    FinHeaven's Elite

    Join date:
    Nov 2008
    South Carolinia
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Cam Wake 91PS4 Controller2013 Dolphins Logo1972 Dolphins Logo

    Good write up Spesh

    Deshaun Watson is the TRUTH!
    Quote Quote  

  3. -3
    damanref10's Avatar
    Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

    Join date:
    Mar 2010
    New Orleans/Miami
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Well that was a refreshing intelligent post. appreciate the time you put into that Spesh.

    It's amazing what happens when you use facts to lead you to a conclusion. this one seems obvious
    Quote Quote  

  4. -4
    JERSEYFINFAN23's Avatar

    Join date:
    Aug 2005
    Thanks / No Thanks
    agreed wow == great post!
    Quote Quote  

  5. -5
    mega-fin-love's Avatar
    Just trust me

    Join date:
    May 2010
    Centreville Virginia
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Bravo man. I know that took a good amount of time. Ireland's days may be numbered.
    Quote Quote  

  6. -6
    Scout Team

    Join date:
    Sep 2005
    Thanks / No Thanks
    can't argue with the facts and the numbers..... It's tough being a fins fan for the last 10 years....
    Quote Quote  

  7. -7
    Pro Bowler

    Join date:
    Mar 2003
    Bay Area, Ca
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Epic post.... The cliff notes are as follows:

    Quote Quote  

  8. -8
    SkapePhin's Avatar
    Brady Slayer

    Join date:
    May 2002
    Thanks / No Thanks
    While I appreciate the effort, your time probably could have been spent more productively on more important matters. There is no new or enlightening info in this post.

    I honestly don't care if Ireland is back or not. I think he has been average, like most GMs.

    This post would have been much more valuable if it juxtaposed this data with the performance of other GMs across the league. As it stands, in a vacuum, this post doesn't accomplish much. Additionally, it fails to take into account matters of talent development. A GM can only acquire talent based on potential. The development of that talent is up to the coaches. If the coaches fail to adequately develop that talent, it is much more difficult to assess the kind of job the GM has done.
    Quote Quote  

  9. -9
    Ferretsquig's Avatar
    Perennial All-Pro

    Join date:
    Jun 2002
    Thanks / No Thanks
    My goodness. Some people put way too much thought into this nonsense.
    Quote Quote  

  10. -10
    RichmondWeb's Avatar
    Greetings from Portlandia

    Join date:
    Jan 2005
    Portland, OR
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Great insight!

    I have seen comparisons of draft success with all 32 teams and Miami seems average during Ireland's tenure; Not the best, not the worst. He seems to have done a good job of staffing the defense and special teams thus far; obviously we want better than "average".

    The coaching staff looked great 3 weeks ago. How well will they adapt and improvise now that their tendencies are known?

    How important is continuity at the GM position? Can we build on what we have, or must we start over from scratch? Will someone else do a better job given the same situation? What about someone with less knowledge and experience?

    A GM must know all aspects of running the team. Ireland now understands the ownership, the fanbase, the finances and numbers, the players and their families, the structure of the organization, many players at-large and on other teams, GM's and owners of all of the teams, NFL administration, the media................ and more. That's a lot of stuff to know, information to learn, and relationships to cultivate. It supposedly takes 5 years just to develop a QB. How long does it take to develop a head coach, or player personnel person, or director of scouting, equipment manager, trainer.....ect. So how long does it take to develop a GM who must oversee and develop all these (and more) aspects of the organization in an ever-changing environment? And when you do finally get somebody who is good at most aspects of the job, then what? Grass is greener in Green Bay/Start over? Let him walk out and take all he knows about the job and our organization to say.....the Jets? I don't hear a lot of complaining within the organization that Ireland is difficult to work with, a rouge etc.

    Player personnel, salary cap management, and drafting are just a small part of the job and most of the decisions are group decisions. Player personnel handles veterans, scouting department studies the draftees, Everyone from Ross on down to the equipment manager gets to contribute at least their opinion on which players belong on the team and at what price, so this is a team effort. It is not yet time to fire the whole team, AGAIN.

    Unfortunately, the GM and Head Coach, get "held responsible" for the decisions of the group and are unceremoniously replaced. Often by less-experienced and less-qualified replacements. It can perpetuate a cycle of lose, replace, rebuild, etc.

    We have finally trained Ireland now, lets see how he does now that he knows the job, the lay of the land, the new owner, coaching staff and team.

    I agree, it is a very important time to have the best possible GM in charge, and we just Phinished training him. Go get 'em Jeff! I got your back!

    (For now)

    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. Ireland Mythology Index vol. 2
    By Spesh in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 03-11-2013, 02:54 PM
  2. The Marino mythology
    By fins1 in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-24-2008, 05:07 PM
  3. When does a religion become mythology?
    By Super_Duper85 in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-27-2005, 03:38 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts