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Thread: The Ireland Mythology Index

  1. -41
    phintim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadianfishfan View Post
    I hear what you're saying. I see this thread as long winded anti- Ireland thread. Which is fine, it's great reading. BUT, just becuase you get rid of Ireland, doesn't mean we're going to get better. For example, In the original post, they mentioned that Ozzie Newsome was signed in 2002. After they won the SB. They haven't been back since. So while he's heralded as the best GM currently in football.. he actually hasn't won anything at the helm. Kinda like Parcells. All legend.

    I personally believe Ireland will be here this off-season. This will be his "last chance" to get talent. That's just my opinion, based on what I've read, and in particular Ross' relationship with him.

    But I have no crystal ball, and won't be crying if he gets canned either. But a team with stability attracts free agents. No player wants to come to a team that a revolving door from top to bottom. Teams need time to gel and create chemistry. I believe also our "company policy" of only getting "good guys" is backfiring. But that philosophy began with Huizenga after the Ricky Williams debacle, and our team was a of the field laughing stock.

    What I'm sayin is, change for the sake of change doesn't mean we'll win anything. And with this team, time has certainly has proven that true.
    Your last statement is very true. What I dislike the most regarding Ireland looking at it 20/20 rearview mirrow style is that the decisions he made when he showed up in the beginning appear less solid than they first appeared. We shelled out some hefty bonues those first couple of years for some NFL free agents that did not pan out. Since then when we have spent serious money those NFL free agents are contributing. Same thing in the NFL draft Ireland has drafted solid players in the first round not any busts but not any real super home runs. He has done well in the lower rounds 5th through 7th and college free agents IMO than most GM's. I like his latest draft much better than most of his prior even if you want to give Philbin credit for it Ireland was here to sign off just like he was with Parcells. I beleive that time that Ireland is improving learning from his ealier mistakes which is why I am will to see him stick after years, years and years going back with Shula of enduring much worse GM's. At first this year I believed Philbin and Ryann T were bust decisions (time could still prove me right) but as of right now they have impressed from those earlier predictions and I was ready to bury Ireland becasue of them so I certainly also have to give him credit for them also. Currently I am not sure Ryann T. can carry the team like I first hoped but I beleive we can build a team around him with another draft like last years. I might also want to add that many of the players like Long, R. Incognito that we are seeing struggle were drafted for another style of football that we are not using this year so what is starting to look like cannon fodder on a Philbin style team might look much better on another scheme. How many former Dolphins do you see playing well on other teams is my point?
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  2. -42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadianfishfan View Post
    I hear what you're saying. I see this thread as long winded anti- Ireland thread. Which is fine, it's great reading. BUT, just becuase you get rid of Ireland, doesn't mean we're going to get better. For example, In the original post, they mentioned that Ozzie Newsome was signed in 2002. After they won the SB. They haven't been back since. So while he's heralded as the best GM currently in football.. he actually hasn't won anything at the helm. Kinda like Parcells. All legend.

    I personally believe Ireland will be here this off-season. This will be his "last chance" to get talent. That's just my opinion, based on what I've read, and in particular Ross' relationship with him.

    But I have no crystal ball, and won't be crying if he gets canned either. But a team with stability attracts free agents. No player wants to come to a team that a revolving door from top to bottom. Teams need time to gel and create chemistry. I believe also our "company policy" of only getting "good guys" is backfiring. But that philosophy began with Huizenga after the Ricky Williams debacle, and our team was a of the field laughing stock.

    What I'm sayin is, change for the sake of change doesn't mean we'll win anything. And with this team, time has certainly has proven that true.
    Ok, that's fair and I agree. Getting rid of Ireland doesn't mean we'll win the superbowl. I agree with that. That's why I said the new guy "might or might not" do a good job. I just believe he's had enough time so I'd rather us move on. Having said that, I don't know Ross will make the move and there's nothing I can do about it.

    Ozzy rules!!
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    Fantastic post Spesh and the post on page 2 of other GMs the fans want canned, probably the two best posts I've read in a while. I'm a bit on the fence on this tbh, the last draft was Ireland's best, and I doubt any GM would look good with Sparano trying to develop the talent, Sparano could make Andrew Luck look bad. The bottom line to me is what do the two most important people in this think, Ross and Philbin? If Philbin is happy with Ireland and what he is doing then would you still advocate getting rid of him, I wouldn't?
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  4. -44
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    Excellent post. Thank you for sharing.
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  5. -45
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    Excellent post. I officially want Ireland fired!

    He should fire himself!
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    jeff must go in order for the dolphins to get back to winning
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadianfishfan View Post

    But this whole thread reminds me of what everyone has been saying, since I've joined this board. Get rid of the guy were have and it's going to suddenly get better. Well that hasn't worked either. It doesn't matter what player it is, or coach, or GM.

    The teams that win have stability. That's all I know for sure.
    This is the exact same argument people had for keeping Sparano, and I don't see anybody bemoaning the move to replace him now. What should be especially disturbing to the Ireland supporters is almost nobody is defending him as being a great GM, the best his supporters can come up with at this point is "he's not good but we could do worse"

    Ask yourself this: If Ireland is hired by the Jets next season, will that make you happy or worried?
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  8. -48
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy_miami View Post
    This is the exact same argument people had for keeping Sparano, and I don't see anybody bemoaning the move to replace him now. What should be especially disturbing to the Ireland supporters is almost nobody is defending him as being a great GM, the best his supporters can come up with at this point is "he's not good but we could do worse"

    Ask yourself this: If Ireland is hired by the Jets next season, will that make you happy or worried?
    If you read some of my earlier posts, I wasn't defending anyone. I'm merely saying, change for change sake doesn't mean success. I used Ozzie Newsome in an earlier post to say he was hired by the ravens after their SB win, and haven't been back to the dance since. And he's regarded as the top GM in the business.

    I wasn't high on Philbin. That was my personal opinion. He has won me over to an extent. But I don't see a lot of adjustment going on with the coaching staff. I don't necessarily see players put in the best position to win per se.

    I know everyone wants Ireland gone. Because of the bad media rap. Truth be told, Miami has been in the cross hairs of the media for years. I was just on NFL.com where there isn't one mention of the dolphins on the main page. 3 weeks ago there were several stories. Even one about Ireland perhaps not being so bad. Lose a few games...

    I don't care if Ireland gets fired or not. All I know for sure, that whoever is leading us through the draft next year, is not going to get a pass on credentials, or reputation. In my eyes, they better deliver 2 to 3 game changers on this team. Not just once, but through several moves and years.

    I can see a landscape of work with Ireland here. We've been a front office revolving door. I just want to see someone come in, and prove their worth, by not one, but several years of quality eveluation and free agency pickups, and drafting capabilities.

    Like coaching, it's a crap shoot.
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    good post mate. One name that you missed on potential GM candidates who should be one every team's list, but never gets mentioned, is Omar Khan from Pittsburgh. His background is in salary and has been their chief contract negotiator since 2001. What's impressive about that is he'll be only 36 in February.

    Now to go even further into Khan, he's the guy Bill Cowher has told every team whose asked him to become their coach that he wants them to hire Khan as GM.
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    You mentioned at the bottom of that terrific and epic post a couple of things that I might be able to help clarify on.

    1. You said Jeff Ireland "may or may not" have been in the room during the Harbaugh fiasco. That's a verified fact that he was in the room during the meetings. What his role was may be up for argument but it is a verified fact he was there.

    2. On that subject, Michael Lombardi (who has been and remains to this day close friends with Jim Harbaugh) directly attributed Harbaugh's unease with the Miami Dolphins in their bid for him to Steve Ross "bringing the wrong person in the room with him" (referring to Jeff Ireland). That's a direct quote. It was on the radio. Harbaugh had a relationship with Trent Baalke and was comfortable with him, he had no relationship with Jeff Ireland and was not comfortable with him.

    3. One area not really expounded upon much in your post is the players that were cut by the Dolphins and went on to be successful elsewhere. Rob Ninkovich is one such player. Since the Dolphins cut him, he's taken over 2,000 snaps with the New England Patriots. Another is Donald Thomas, who has played over 500 snaps with the Patriots this year and has accumulated a +8.3 rating on PFF making him one 14th ranked guard in their system. Another is guard Evan Mathis who is now playing All Pro quality football for the Philadelphia Eagles. And finally there is Marcel Reese, who was signed as a UDFA and is now a standout fullback, pass catcher and ball carrier with the Oakland Raiders. There are others who have gone on to varying degrees of success, including OLB Erik Walden, RB Jalen Parmele, OC Samson Satele, OLB Quentin Groves, LB Tim Dobbins, FS Chris Crocker, WR Ted Ginn, WR Greg Camarillo, and CB Jason Allen. I'm trying to only include guys that were clearly not jettisoned for money reasons. Other guys like DE Vonnie Holliday, CB Andre Goodman, SS Yeremiah Bell, OLB Joey Porter, DT Kendall Langford, RB Ronnie Brown and TE David Martin and QB Chad Henne may have all gone to play with other teams, but all clearly were let go because the Dolphins didn't view them to be financial worth continuing on with. But the other guys weren't financial decisions, the Dolphins just decided they weren't talented enough to be on the team.

    4. Along the "who did what" lines, Armando Salguero went on record with three points of interest. One was that Jeff Ireland and Bill Parcells only ever disagreed on a player once or twice. Another was that Parcells allowed Jeff Ireland totally free rein in the 2009 NFL Draft but decided to get back involved more in the 2010 NFL Draft. Another is that Jeff Ireland was as much or more on board with Pat White as anyone else in the organization, but that it was a total team screwup because there wasn't a single person not on board with it.
    Last edited by ckparrothead; 11-27-2012 at 05:59 PM.
    Twitter: @ckparrot
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