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Thread: QB vs GM & Play Makers?

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    QB vs GM & Play Makers?

    Many here have posted of their "dislike" for Ireland, as well as the NEED to have Play Makers on the team. They are all fair opinions but, here is something to consider.

    Last year, we had a play maker in Marshall at WR, 1214 yards and a Pro Bowl, Hartline with 549, and Bess with 537 We had Bush at RB, 1086 yards in a great season, and DT with 581. We had Fasano with 451. We had Moore at QB, with a VG QB rating at 87.1. We also had a VG D. Where did that get us? Nowhere at 6-10.

    In 2008, we had Ginn with 790 yards, Camarillo with 613, and Bess with 554. We had Ronnie with 916 yards and Ricky with 659. We had Fasano with 454, and Martin with 450 in a double TE. We had Penny, with a 97.4 QB rating. We also had a VG D. Where did that get us? Into the playoffs at 11-5.

    Were Ginn and Camarillo better than Marshall and Hartline? No way in hell. Were R & R better than Bush and DT? Doubtful at best. Was the D about the same? Pretty much.

    Was Penny much better than Moore? Without a doubt!

    In this NFL, everything comes down to the QB, and all we can hope for is Tannehill being the answer. Everything else matters little. JMO
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    MadDog 88's Avatar
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    QB vs GM & Play Makers?

    You need to go a little more in depth as to why those seasons played out the way they did. In 2007 the Dolphins lost 7 games by 3 or less points. In 2008 they won a fair mount of games by the same margin. In 2008 they had Pennington fall into their laps and he didn't turn the ball over and finally, they played a ridiculously easy schedule and were only able to move the ball with a gimmick offense.

    Last year the defense cost them several games in the first half of the season. The second half of the season Moore played well but again, look at the teams they beat.

    I am not exactly sure if you're attempting to say that the need for playmakers is not as important as what is being stressed and if you are, here is something to think about. The toxic difference. They are -21 in big plays. That averages two just over 2 per game. Coupled with being on the minus side in turnovers is a strong indicator of why this team is 4-6.
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    Those are very good points. I do think that R&R were better than Bush and DT, 2 bruising runners that seldom went side to side and occasionally hit a big play. I liked our offense over the last nine weeks of last season though. It was pretty potent at times but the slow start ruined the season. The big arguement you'll get from the folks here is the weak schedule we played in 2008 because nobody likes to gice Chad Pennington any credit. He won 11 games with very limited weapons on offense and won every game the fins should have won but somehow it was his weak arm that held us back. Now we have a QB with a strong arm and limited weapons and its the limited weapons that hold him back, pretty ironic. I know, the weapons in 2008 were better because we had the 5th WR on the 49ers back then Ted Ginn. Those 5th WR's really make the difference. In all seriousness maybe the weapons were a LITTLE less limited in 2008, but they certainly weren't great or players other teams would be clamouring for.
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    Ronnie and Ricky were absolutely better than Reggie Bush and Daniel Thomas. Without a doubt. I'm stunned you would argue otherwise.

    Reggie Bush had a couple great games last season that inflated his average. When the guy gets blocking, he's a monster. He'll break off huge runs, runs that an average RB will not be able to make.

    The problem is, Bush really is a scat back. We can't bruise our way through the season with this mediocre run blocking line and Reggie Bush. He'll get injured, he'll get stuffed, and teams will not respect the playaction anymore simply because what do they have to fear?

    Look at Reggies stats per game. In the beginning of the season he looked like a complete waste, only turning it on at the end of the season. 20% of the guys yards came in a single game, that's not something you like tos ee.
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    We're just going to have to wait for the season to shake out.

    I think there's a certain sense that people know what's going to happen in the next six games, and they're OK with it...but they'll find out that when it actually happens, they're not OK with it. If the Dolphins lose 5 of the next 6 games then I don't think there will be any argument that major changes in the Dolphins' organizational structure will take place. And yes that means Ireland will be fired.

    I think if the Dolphins even just lose 4 of the next 6 games, that's what will happen. The key will be in how low the low gets. The Dolphins are embarking on a brutal three game stretch against the Seahawks, Patriots and 49ers. The Patriots are now back to scoring 50 points a game and the 49ers are steamrolling opponents. The Seahawks are just a good football team. If we lose all three of these games, and you toss in a good steamrolling by either the Patriots or 49ers...or both...then it won't matter if the Dolphins go on a mini streak by beating both the Jaguars and Bills before losing a second time to the Patriots. The 6 game losing streak will have done its work.

    At that point, before we can even embark on a little streak by beating the Jaguars and Bills, I think Steve Ross will already start holding secret phone conversations with people like Michael Lombardi and Bill Polian, feeling them out on the GM job.
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    So we don't need playmakers because we still sucked when we had one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    Many here have posted of their "dislike" for Ireland, as well as the NEED to have Play Makers on the team. They are all fair opinions but, here is something to consider.

    Last year, we had a play maker in Marshall at WR, 1214 yards and a Pro Bowl, Hartline with 549, and Bess with 537 We had Bush at RB, 1086 yards in a great season, and DT with 581. We had Fasano with 451. We had Moore at QB, with a VG QB rating at 87.1. We also had a VG D. Where did that get us? Nowhere at 6-10.

    In 2008, we had Ginn with 790 yards, Camarillo with 613, and Bess with 554. We had Ronnie with 916 yards and Ricky with 659. We had Fasano with 454, and Martin with 450 in a double TE. We had Penny, with a 97.4 QB rating. We also had a VG D. Where did that get us? Into the playoffs at 11-5.

    Were Ginn and Camarillo better than Marshall and Hartline? No way in hell. Were R & R better than Bush and DT? Doubtful at best. Was the D about the same? Pretty much.

    Was Penny much better than Moore? Without a doubt!

    In this NFL, everything comes down to the QB, and all we can hope for is Tannehill being the answer. Everything else matters little. JMO
    Do you think Tannehill is our future?
    It's time to be successful Coach Philbin. Have you decided what you should master yet? It's time to step up Mr. Tannehill, you're starting year three too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDog 88 View Post
    You need to go a little more in depth as to why those seasons played out the way they did. In 2007 the Dolphins lost 7 games by 3 or less points. In 2008 they won a fair mount of games by the same margin. In 2008 they had Pennington fall into their laps and he didn't turn the ball over and finally, they played a ridiculously easy schedule and were only able to move the ball with a gimmick offense.
    You forgot that Tom Brady suffered a season ending injury in Week 1, and yet the Pats still finished with the same record as the Fins (and missed the playoffs). Had Brady been healthy I seriously doubt the Fins would've won the division/made the playoffs, 2008 was a bit of an aberration in that it was the perfect storm of things that happened that greatly benefited the team, and made the coaching staff/FO look WAY better than they actually were.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    Many here have posted of their "dislike" for Ireland, as well as the NEED to have Play Makers on the team. They are all fair opinions but, here is something to consider.

    Last year, we had a play maker in Marshall at WR, 1214 yards and a Pro Bowl, Hartline with 549, and Bess with 537 We had Bush at RB, 1086 yards in a great season, and DT with 581. We had Fasano with 451. We had Moore at QB, with a VG QB rating at 87.1. We also had a VG D. Where did that get us? Nowhere at 6-10.

    In 2008, we had Ginn with 790 yards, Camarillo with 613, and Bess with 554. We had Ronnie with 916 yards and Ricky with 659. We had Fasano with 454, and Martin with 450 in a double TE. We had Penny, with a 97.4 QB rating. We also had a VG D. Where did that get us? Into the playoffs at 11-5.

    Were Ginn and Camarillo better than Marshall and Hartline? No way in hell. Were R & R better than Bush and DT? Doubtful at best. Was the D about the same? Pretty much.

    Was Penny much better than Moore? Without a doubt!

    In this NFL, everything comes down to the QB, and all we can hope for is Tannehill being the answer. Everything else matters little. JMO

    Really? Ricky Williams by himself was more talented than both of these two combined.

    SCall13, Jr.
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    roy_miami's Avatar
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    In 2008 didn't we break a record for turnover differential? Thats what was great about the wildcat, lots of big plays, almost 100% positive plays with zero turnovers out of it.
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