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Thread: Poll: GOP to blame if "fiscal cliff" talks fail

  1. -21
    Spesh's Avatar
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    Not surprisingly, it illuminated the complicated politics and policy that go along with raising the national borrowing limit these days. And also not surprisingly, perhaps, it went nowhere, concluding with the somewhat comical scene of Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (R) of Kentucky filibustering his own proposal.

    Welcome to Capitol Hill...

    But never underestimate the congressional urge to make your opponents look silly.

    Out of the blue, McConnell came to the floor Thursday and asked for a vote on the president’s proposal.

    McConnell was hoping to put Democrats in the awkward position of having to vote for ceding Congress’s authority over the debt ceiling to the president. As he put it in his morning remarks, “by demanding the power to raise the debt limit whenever he wants by as much as he wants, he showed what he’s really after is assuming unprecedented power to spend taxpayer dollars without any limit.”

    Senate majority leader Harry Reid (D) of Nevada objected, putting Democrats in the position of blocking a vote on their president’s proposal. Yet within hours, Democrats sensed a way to turn the tables – and were ready to call McConnell’s bluff.

    They returned to the floor and offered to bring the matter up for a vote immediately, concluding that, politically speaking, they would be happy to argue that fixing the debt ceiling permanently was the fiscally responsible thing to do even at the cost of congressional authority.

    “Our downgrade of America’s credit rating was not based on the state of our economy but the debt-ceiling debate,” said Sen. Dick Durbin (D) of Illinois to reporters after the affair. “We are paying dearly for that already. So the Republicans are creating a situation which makes reducing the debt and deficit extremely difficult by creating this uncertainty about the debt ceiling.”

    So what did Mitch McConnell do, facing a vote on his own suggestion from just hours before?

    He offered two magic words – “I object” – and filibustered his own suggestion.
    http://news.yahoo.com/debt-ceiling-d...233346015.html

    Now thats damned amusing. To shorten the quote i cut out the backstory, which was Obama trying to get the "McConnell Provision".
    "I'm not here to be a distraction," Pouncey said.
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10...ogical-testing
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  2. -22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoFinz View Post
    Obama is supposed to lead.....Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush.....they could all get budgets done......Make all the pitiful excuses you want, blame everyone else but Obama, but the fact is he sucks. He cant work with Republicans, he is not transparent, he has ignored the White House leaks (remember those? Oh the outrage he feigned) he has ignored the Benghazi attack and lied to everyone about it.....and now Pelosi is trying to castigate the House GOP for taking a break (deservedly so, they need to be hammering out a budget), but she ignores the fact that Dems walked out on the Holder contempt charges this year and the Energy debate in 2008. Both sides FAIL when it comes to statesmanship and leadership.

    And Obama still has not passed a budget in his whole term...Is there anything this President has not passed the buck on? LEAD GOD DAMMITT!!!!
    And surely in this vacuum of leadership Republicans have stepped forward, right? Because we have been so adrift that Republicans have stepped forward and put aside their petty differences to lead the American people when the President was unable to, right? They have decided to press proposals and force the President into the leadership position he is suppose to hold. They have worked late and not taken, oh lets say, 5 day breaks(laughed how thats excused because of something that happened in '08). I mean, thats what leaders do, amirite? They step forward in times of crisis and reach their hand out. They guide the way towards compromise. Surely thats what Republicans have done the last 4 years. Anything else would be hypocrisy.

    Oh wait, instead when Obama does reach out and try and lead the GOP accuses him of "demanding we do whatever he wants". Well, i guess they just didnt want leadership then. By the way, you really couldnt have planned the entire "leadership" thing better. And by better i mean more hilariously:

    Led by Republican opposition, the Senate on Tuesday rejected a United Nations treaty on the rights of the disabled that is modeled after the landmark Americans with Disabilities Act.
    With 38 Republicans casting "no" votes, the 61-38 vote fell five short of the two-thirds majority needed to ratify a treaty. The vote took place in an unusually solemn atmosphere, with senators sitting at their desks rather than milling around the podium. Former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole, looking frail and in a wheelchair, was in the chamber to support the treaty.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2238181.html

    'Merica, leading the way! To be fair, im sure those Republicans were to busy planning military campaigns to worry about helping solve disabilities that might come from those military campaigns.
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  3. -23
    MoFinz's Avatar
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    So.......for the last 230+ years, every US President has managed to sign off on a budget EXCEPT for this one......but you want to blame the GOP alone. Heres a clue for ya....51% Obama vs. 47% Romney does not reflect a mandate, rather a lack of options. Leaders know where and when to compromise. You think Reagan and O'neil or Clinton and Gingrich didn't understand that? Obama refuses to bend, even though Boehner has about as much backbone as Gumby. I don't know why you want to excuse Obama from his responsibilities so bad.......NEITHER side works for us. When will that get thru to people?

    BOTH sides have failed us...but we keep putting them back in Washington expecting something different. Who is crazier, them or us? And isn't it funny we refer to our elected officers as "them", when they're supposed to by, of and for "us" ?


    Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
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  4. -24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Oh wait, instead when Obama does reach out and try and lead the GOP accuses him of "demanding we do whatever he wants". Well, i guess they just didnt want leadership then. By the way, you really couldnt have planned the entire "leadership" thing better. And by better i mean more hilariously:



    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2238181.html

    'Merica, leading the way! To be fair, im sure those Republicans were to busy planning military campaigns to worry about helping solve disabilities that might come from those military campaigns.
    And can you tell me what good that UN treaty would be to the US? I mean, it's "Modeled after our own ADA" law......under what circumstance does international treaties supercede American law? Oh, it doesn't? It would just be superfluous and do nothing to improve conditions here? SHOCKER!!!! And btw, how great are UN treties working in Palestine, Iran, Libya, Egypt and Syria right now? That bill was all show no go and you would know it if you bothered to look at it.

    And btw...you can dismiss the Dems walkout over the energy debate in 08, but how do you dismiss their lack of leadership in the Holder debate this year? The man hides behind Obamas coat tails to avoid impeachment for his departments deadly botch of Fast & Furious. Can't quite reconcile that can ya
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoFinz View Post
    So.......for the last 230+ years, every US President has managed to sign off on a budget EXCEPT for this one......but you want to blame the GOP alone. Heres a clue for ya....51% Obama vs. 47% Romney does not reflect a mandate, rather a lack of options. Leaders know where and when to compromise. You think Reagan and O'neil or Clinton and Gingrich didn't understand that? Obama refuses to bend, even though Boehner has about as much backbone as Gumby. I don't know why you want to excuse Obama from his responsibilities so bad.......NEITHER side works for us. When will that get thru to people?

    BOTH sides have failed us...but we keep putting them back in Washington expecting something different. Who is crazier, them or us? And isn't it funny we refer to our elected officers as "them", when they're supposed to by, of and for "us" ?
    By no means, this thread is about which party is more to blame concerning the fiscal cliff. I didnt realize it had turned into a anti-Obama buzzword soapbox. Usually im only aware we've entered that area when Obamacare starts coming up. For "whatever reason" you keep trying to bring up stuff from 2008. Stuff that is not Obama's responsibility. Yet, you slam him for not fulfilling that responsibility. Why do i get the feeling you would blame Obama for "stepping outside his power" had he done exactly what you wanted and tried to take control of the budget? Believe it or not, it takes 2 to reach a compromise on anything. When one side refuses to negotiate, not alot gets done.

    If your asking if i personally blame the GOP more for the looming fiscal cliff than Obama? Absolutely. Obama has refused to bend? The fiscal cliff was set up because we couldnt reach a real agreement years ago and Obama backed off many of his demands, such as letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the wealthy. This is nothing new. These issues are nothing new. Between Boehner walking out on previous talks and his now infamous "i got 98% of what i wanted", im not sure in what universe Obama could be the one established as "unbendable". Other then the universe in which Fox News occupies.

    Republicans ran entire campaigns on "no compromise". Many ran against other GOP politicians, and won, because they had to "audacity" to work on bipartisan agreements. Ill say it again: congrats. They got exactly what they worked towards. But dont pee on my leg and tell me its raining. They dont get to sit here and say "Obama wouldnt compromise!!!!!". Republicans were proud when they ignored Obama, ecstatic when they refused to negotiate, vilified anyone who was willing to compromise(something that is still occuring, look at Boehners recent headbutting with his own party over tax increases), and have pushed us up right to the cliff. Im not going to sit here and listen to them play victim because they got what they wanted. Utterly absurd.

    ---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MoFinz View Post
    And can you tell me what good that UN treaty would be to the US? I mean, it's "Modeled after our own ADA" law......under what circumstance does international treaties supercede American law? Oh, it doesn't? It would just be superfluous and do nothing to improve conditions here? SHOCKER!!!! And btw, how great are UN treties working in Palestine, Iran, Libya, Egypt and Syria right now? That bill was all show no go and you would know it if you bothered to look at it.

    And btw...you can dismiss the Dems walkout over the energy debate in 08, but how do you dismiss their lack of leadership in the Holder debate this year? The man hides behind Obamas coat tails to avoid impeachment for his departments deadly botch of Fast & Furious. Can't quite reconcile that can ya
    Leadership!
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  6. -26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    By no means, this thread is about which party is more to blame concerning the fiscal cliff. I didnt realize it had turned into a anti-Obama buzzword soapbox. Usually im only aware we've entered that area when Obamacare starts coming up. For "whatever reason" you keep trying to bring up stuff from 2008. Stuff that is not Obama's responsibility. Yet, you slam him for not fulfilling that responsibility. Why do i get the feeling you would blame Obama for "stepping outside his power" had he done exactly what you wanted and tried to take control of the budget? Believe it or not, it takes 2 to reach a compromise on anything. When one side refuses to negotiate, not alot gets done.

    If your asking if i personally blame the GOP more for the looming fiscal cliff than Obama? Absolutely. Obama has refused to bend? The fiscal cliff was set up because we couldnt reach a real agreement years ago and Obama backed off many of his demands, such as letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the wealthy. This is nothing new. These issues are nothing new. Between Boehner walking out on previous talks and his now infamous "i got 98% of what i wanted", im not sure in what universe Obama could be the one established as "unbendable". Other then the universe in which Fox News occupies.

    Republicans ran entire campaigns on "no compromise". Many ran against other GOP politicians, and won, because they had to "audacity" to work on bipartisan agreements. Ill say it again: congrats. They got exactly what they worked towards. But dont pee on my leg and tell me its raining. They dont get to sit here and say "Obama wouldnt compromise!!!!!". Republicans were proud when they ignored Obama, ecstatic when they refused to negotiate, vilified anyone who was willing to compromise(something that is still occuring, look at Boehners recent headbutting with his own party over tax increases), and have pushed us up right to the cliff. Im not going to sit here and listen to them play victim because they got what they wanted. Utterly absurd.

    ---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------



    Leadership!
    LACK thereof
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    Obama blew ALL of his political capital on Health Care...and ignored the economy because he thought the Stimulus would fix it. Well, if this is fixed, broken would have to be well beyond FUBAR.

    Obama doesn't lead, which is pretty much his sole job as President. The Dems and GOP won't lead, because they might alienate a voter. They appeal to their core constituents.

    Not defending Romney, because i was no fan of his politics, but he did mangle the one thing he was trying to convey.
    47% of the country is totally devoted to the Democrats
    47% of the country is totally devoted to the Republicans
    In an election, your fighting for the 6% that lands somewhere in between......that's where elections are won and lost these days. We have not had a uniter in a long time. Obama promised to be a Uniter, Transparent and Lead this Country.....say it with me now.....FAIL FAIL and FAIL!

    We deserve to be on this cliff, because we as a country put these assclowns in office. I hope all the lemmings go over the cliff, maybe then we can start to get things right in this country again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoFinz View Post
    LACK thereof
    Totally agree. We set such a gold standard of treating those with disabilities that the rest of the world attempts to adopt it. Our leadership guided the way for the majority of the world on this issue.

    And the GOP voted against it. Complete lack of leadership from Republicans.

    They decided they hate the United Nations and Obama more than they like helping people in wheelchairs. Literally.
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    Couldn't (shouldn't?) every country adopt the UN version of the ADA independently? Even if unanimously approved what enforcement would there there be?

    As good as it sounds it would mostly be a feel good gesture. A lot of people are uncomfortable with binding ourselves to an international law, especially one that is unlikely to change much abroad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Totally agree. We set such a gold standard of treating those with disabilities that the rest of the world attempts to adopt it. Our leadership guided the way for the majority of the world on this issue.

    And the GOP voted against it. Complete lack of leadership from Republicans.

    They decided they hate the United Nations and Obama more than they like helping people in wheelchairs. Literally.
    What specifically in this treaty would have benefitted our vets one iota more than our own ADA laws?

    Or was it the symbolism that was supposed to mean something to our injured warrior?
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