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Thread: Barry Jackson: Early peek at Dolphins' options in 2013 draft

  1. -41
    ckparrothead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedSlimmJr View Post
    He absolutely is. One of the main differences between the SEC and the Pac-12 is where they tend to put their best athletes. SEC coaches like to try 'em on defense first in a lot of cases, then move to the offensive side of the ball if it's not a fit. It's the opposite in the Pac-12.

    The fact that this kid wasted away for 2 years at the RB position due to Neuheisel trying to fit a square peg in a round hole is inexplicable. I don't know of any top notch SEC coach that wouldn't have had Barr playing linebacker from the moment he stepped on campus. A 6'4", 235 pound athlete like that is going straight from the parking lot to defense around here. Jim Mora being a defensive coach by trade, didn't take long to figure it out.

    Neuheisel is just a terrible coach, and even more clueless when it comes to college football. I figured that out watching him try to force feed that pistol offense when he didn't have the personnel to run it. Now that he's fired and out of a job, we get to listen to him on the radio whine about the SEC and listen to all of his pro-Pac-12 propaganda.

    Same for Keenan Allen who was a Bama commit all the way up to the last minute. He was being recruited as a safety to Bama. He had a handler Saban refused to deal with. We tend to turn down every player who has a handler or demands a "twofer".

    Which is why Tedford just got fired at Cal. He let Keenan Allen strap him with an abomination at the QB position as part of the Allen package deal. Matter of fact, the word I hear from one of the parents of a Cal player is that Allen refused to workout, made it known in no uncertain terms that he wouldn't play with any other quarterback besides Maynard, and generally did whatever he wanted.

    I doubt any of that will ever make it to the pen of a journalist or sportswriter... or draftnik.. but it's something that's likely to affect the way teams view Allen and his ability to be coached when they begin their due diligence into what type of kid he is.
    Appreciate the insight.
    Twitter: @ckparrot
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    I don't know if Anthony Barr would come out or not. He might stay in to polish his game under Jim Mora. The state of the program is looking pretty good.

    If he came out, I think you'd have to take him over a Barkevious Mingo for sure, and I think he grades out better than Dion Jordan as well. Jordan and Barr play similarly but I think Barr just looks more physically dynamic. You would probably take an Anthony Barr over an Alex Okafor, or at least I would hope you would. He's similar in body type to a Damontre Moore and Corey Lemonier but superior on the field of play, IMO.

    Truthfully the only guy I know I'd take over him is Bjoern Werner. And Jadaveon Clowney, if he were actually eligible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    I don't know if Anthony Barr would come out or not. He might stay in to polish his game under Jim Mora. The state of the program is looking pretty good.

    If he came out, I think you'd have to take him over a Barkevious Mingo for sure, and I think he grades out better than Dion Jordan as well. Jordan and Barr play similarly but I think Barr just looks more physically dynamic. You would probably take an Anthony Barr over an Alex Okafor, or at least I would hope you would. He's similar in body type to a Damontre Moore and Corey Lemonier but superior on the field of play, IMO.

    Truthfully the only guy I know I'd take over him is Bjoern Werner. And Jadaveon Clowney, if he were actually eligible.
    CK,

    I am not sure if it is because I have watched for 2 solid years Mingo be pretty much negated by Matthews/Joeckel against A&M, but I have never been as big a fan of him as many others are. Truth be told, I think you are spot on in that the only eligible guy I like more than Barr is Bjoern Werner. Being a FSU fan, I have thoroughly enjoyed watching him over the course of his career, and would LOVE to bookend him with Cameron Wake. Of the teams that have a realistic shot of getting Werner, I think his absolute best landing spot to maximize his potential is here in Miami, as Wake's bookend. It would all but assuredly mean having one-on-one matchups the bulk majority of the game. And it would help increase Wake's dangerousness.

    I think that one of the the things we all want to happen this offseason is to add more explosion on offense, and one of the ripple effects of adding more firepower to our football team is having a chance to play with the lead. Cameron Wake has never had the luxury of playing with a 2 TD lead and the other team really having to be one-dimensional. All that being said, my number one wish player for round 1 is Bjoern Werner, because if our offense can make that next step towards being really dynamic, a pairing of Wake and Werner really causes problems for opposing offenses.

    I have the mindset that the best pass defense is a good pass rush. I think signifigantly upgrading our pass rush helps players like Nolan Carroll and Jimmy Wilson out. I hope that we get a fully healed, healthy Richard Marshall back for 2013. Upgrading the pass rush alleviates a lot of our feeling of need at the CB spot this offseason. I want dynamic pass rushers before a stud CB, because with some of the time we have given opposing QB's when the rush isn't getting home, it wouldn't matter if we had Revis.
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  4. -44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootang25 View Post
    All of this being duly noted Slimm, in a draft that is not super heavy at the top for WR skill guys, but actually pretty deep in the middle, would you pull the trigger on Allen were he available in the 1st? I think Allen benefits from the lack of top end talent in this years draft. Were he to be in a class like 2011 with Green/Jones, or 2014 with Lee/Watkins, I am not sure he would be a top 20 pick. I love the guy, and feel he would make a great weapon in this offense, but I am not sure I wouldn't rather get a more elite CB or pass rusher in round 1, and then go to the pretty deep well at WR starting on day 2.

    Would our moves in FA prior to draft weekend dictate your moves at WR? Say we get Mike Wallace, do you want to pair him with a big bodied guy like Allen? Or if we were to get Bowe, go with a shiftier guy like Stedman Bailey?

    It really depends on how the draft falls as to how soon I would look at Allen. What I do know is this... if I'm taking a receiver in the top 15 of this draft, it's going to be Cordarrelle Patterson. I certainly don't subscribe to any notion that Allen belongs in a category with Julio Jones or A.J. Green, if such a notion exists. He's a nice package at the wide receiver position though.

    Personally, I don't think a team like Miami could do any better than a Cordarrelle Patterson/Stedman Bailey combination. If you can come away with that, you're well on your way in my estimation.

    As for the CB position, I just haven't been able to identify a specific player among the Senior class that separates from the pack. I have a similar take on most of 'em. They essentially stack up in groups together as opposed to individually. It comes down more to scheme fit and what type of corner you're looking for in order to choose one over the other at this point. Again, if I'm taking one in the top 15 or so picks here, it'd be Milliner.

    I realize the need to address these positions, although I wouldn't allow myself to pass up a talent I feel much better about at a different position for the sake of addressing the need...especially if I were to end up on the clock inside the top 10 picks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootang25 View Post
    CK,

    I am not sure if it is because I have watched for 2 solid years Mingo be pretty much negated by Matthews/Joeckel against A&M, but I have never been as big a fan of him as many others are. Truth be told, I think you are spot on in that the only eligible guy I like more than Barr is Bjoern Werner. Being a FSU fan, I have thoroughly enjoyed watching him over the course of his career, and would LOVE to bookend him with Cameron Wake. Of the teams that have a realistic shot of getting Werner, I think his absolute best landing spot to maximize his potential is here in Miami, as Wake's bookend. It would all but assuredly mean having one-on-one matchups the bulk majority of the game. And it would help increase Wake's dangerousness.

    I think that one of the the things we all want to happen this offseason is to add more explosion on offense, and one of the ripple effects of adding more firepower to our football team is having a chance to play with the lead. Cameron Wake has never had the luxury of playing with a 2 TD lead and the other team really having to be one-dimensional. All that being said, my number one wish player for round 1 is Bjoern Werner, because if our offense can make that next step towards being really dynamic, a pairing of Wake and Werner really causes problems for opposing offenses.

    I have the mindset that the best pass defense is a good pass rush. I think signifigantly upgrading our pass rush helps players like Nolan Carroll and Jimmy Wilson out. I hope that we get a fully healed, healthy Richard Marshall back for 2013. Upgrading the pass rush alleviates a lot of our feeling of need at the CB spot this offseason. I want dynamic pass rushers before a stud CB, because with some of the time we have given opposing QB's when the rush isn't getting home, it wouldn't matter if we had Revis.
    I agree with you on a lot here.

    Not least of the reasons to think about a quality defensive end in this draft is the simple fact that Cameron Wake will turn 31 years old before this year's Super Bowl is played. As a general manager you're supposed to plan ahead and one good way to plan for years down the road when Cameron Wake isn't Cameron Wake anymore is by layering him up with another premium guy. It'll be really fun while the two are playing together at a high level, and it will ease the hurt when the one starts falling off.

    I think Bjoern is destined to go higher than our pick. Honest opinion. We're slated at #13 right now and I see Bjoern going in the top 10, possibly top 5. There are teams that need a player like him. If Chris Long goes #2 overall, a Bjoern Werner can go top 5 and should go top 10. And that's with Chris Long turning out to be a terrific player.

    Anthony Barr could very well go above where Miami picks as well, if he comes out. His background SEEMS to check out well. His frame and body type seem ideal. His explosiveness is ideal. He seems like a relative newbie when it comes to hands (especially relative to the rest of his game) but I think hand technique can be learned and a defensive end's top tools are actually below the waist, and he is incredibly gifted in that regard (insert homoerotic joke here). I can only speculate that his vision and feel for stunts and blitzes has something to do with his time at tailback, but it would stand to reason.

    Helping the pass rush will reduce Miami's blitzing, which should help their secondary.
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    Evidently it was Anthony Barr's idea to move to defense, not Jim Mora Jr's. He came to Mora and requested it after he'd spent the first couple of years not getting much playing time.
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  7. -47
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    Yes, it was his idea to play offense to begin with. He was hellbent on playing offense coming out of high school. Pete Carroll recruited him to play DE/LB.... along with Notre Dame. Florida St. recruited him to play H-back.

    He already had experience playing linebacker in high school and had a discussion with Coach Mora about moving to defense. The idea was irrelevant, it was the decision that mattered.... and the coach makes that decision. He didn't just start practicing at LB in the spring because of an idea. A lot of kids like him are dead set on playing offense coming out of high school and sign with the coach that's going to give them that opportunity. Most of the big schools wanted Marshall Faulk and Steve McNair to play defense, but they signed to play where they were going to have the opportunity to play on the offensive side.

    If I had a nickel for everytime I heard a kid pushing his coaches to let him play wide receiver who the coaching staff wanted at DB... I'd have retired 5 years ago.

    Barr looks as close to Kevin Greene back when he came out of Auburn as I've seen and that was over 25 years ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedSlimmJr View Post
    He absolutely is. One of the main differences between the SEC and the Pac-12 is where they tend to put their best athletes. SEC coaches like to try 'em on defense first in a lot of cases, then move to the offensive side of the ball if it's not a fit. It's the opposite in the Pac-12.
    I think a lot of that is coming from the players' side, not the coaches. I swear, every time USC brings in a big time recruit for the secondary, he ends up pushing to play on offense. Happened with Marqise Lee, happened with De'Anthony Thomas, looks like its happening with Redfield, and may end up happening with Cravens. Maybe Pac coaches should hold the line better, but that is tough when it means losing out on a top player (Thomas hurt a lot). I don't know if football culture in the South values defense more or what, but it does not seem to be as much of a problem. Then again, I don't really follow recruiting in the South.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WitheringPlant View Post
    I think a lot of that is coming from the players' side, not the coaches. I swear, every time USC brings in a big time recruit for the secondary, he ends up pushing to play on offense. Happened with Marqise Lee, happened with De'Anthony Thomas, looks like its happening with Redfield, and may end up happening with Cravens. Maybe Pac coaches should hold the line better, but that is tough when it means losing out on a top player (Thomas hurt a lot). I don't know if football culture in the South values defense more or what, but it does not seem to be as much of a problem. Then again, I don't really follow recruiting in the South.

    Absolutely, I touched on this a little bit in my previous reply. It's not a new fad, it's been that way for as long as I've been around football. I don't think Pac coaches should necessarily hold the line better because it's what builds the identity of their conference. It's just a different mindset out there.

    Take Bama's offensive coordinator now, Doug Nussmeier, that we hired from Washington after McElwain left to take the head coaching job at Colorado St. All season we've been throwing the football in situations where we normally run it, particularly in goalline situations. It cost us the Texas A&M game, and McCarron threw another pick in the endzone against UGA in the SEC title game in a situation where we should've been running it down the defense's throat. It cost us 6 points.

    At halftime Saban made damn sure that Nussmeier understood that this ain't the Pac-12, and it's not how we do things around here. He made it clear that the team that ran the ball in the 2nd half of the SEC championship game was going to win.. and he was right. I think Nussmeier understands now. He just has too much west coast in him.

    Missing out on a top recruit hurts, but having a top recruit stuck at the wrong position where he's buried on the depth chart and not helping your football team is even worse.

    The SEC values defense because you can't compete in this conference if you don't have it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedSlimmJr View Post
    Yes, it was his idea to play offense to begin with. He was hellbent on playing offense coming out of high school. Pete Carroll recruited him to play DE/LB.... along with Notre Dame. Florida St. recruited him to play H-back.

    He already had experience playing linebacker in high school and had a discussion with Coach Mora about moving to defense. The idea was irrelevant, it was the decision that mattered.... and the coach makes that decision. He didn't just start practicing at LB in the spring because of an idea. A lot of kids like him are dead set on playing offense coming out of high school and sign with the coach that's going to give them that opportunity. Most of the big schools wanted Marshall Faulk and Steve McNair to play defense, but they signed to play where they were going to have the opportunity to play on the offensive side.

    If I had a nickel for everytime I heard a kid pushing his coaches to let him play wide receiver who the coaching staff wanted at DB... I'd have retired 5 years ago.

    Barr looks as close to Kevin Greene back when he came out of Auburn as I've seen and that was over 25 years ago.
    His high school coaches also all tried to convince him to move to linebacker.
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