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Thread: Armando: Ireland job doesn't appear at risk

  1. -171
    roy_miami's Avatar
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    I wonder how many times Ross has heard something like "Tannehill might be good, too bad they got him no weapons". Its gotta be in the thousands and it must be wearing on him. I'm sure he was prepared for it in the beginning but as the season wears on and it keeps getting repeated over and over and over it probably feels a bit like Chinese water torture. If Henne and Blackmon lights us up it could be the drip that sends Ross over the edge.
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  2. -172
    Hayden Fox's Avatar
    At the end of the day...

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    1972 Dolphins LogoMike Wallace 11Cam Wake 91Tannehill 17Dolphin
    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    I want to go back to something I was saying in response to Armando's article which quoted sources saying that right now everything is great between Ross and Ireland.

    As Armando's source himself pointed out, if the Dolphins stumble through the final four games then there will be an evaluation. He could change his mind. For me I feel like a watershed moment could be quickly on the horizon. I think the Jaguars game is potentially the turning point that gets the ball rolling on this question of replacing the current General Manager.

    The Jaguars are 2-11, headed for the #1 or #2 pick in the NFL Draft. This is a team Miami should beat. On top of that, Chad Henne is their quarterback. The mere thought of Chad Henne coming back and winning on Miami's home field in front of the fans, considering how he couldn't do that in 2009, 2010 or 2011 very well...is something I sense that most fans don't even want to think about. There's not just going to be an assumption of victory because the Jaguars are genuinely a worse team than us on the balance of the year, but because it's just unpleasant to think about if they did win. And so if the Jaguars actually did it...that is going to create shock waves amongst the fans. And I think shock waves around many in the organization. They know they're taking haymakers left and right from quality teams like the 49ers and Patriots, but this is supposed to be the one they can count on...one of the last ones remaining. If Chad Henne has a Daunte Culpepper moment where he's scoring 5 touchdowns in front of the home crowd and openly gloating at the crowd the whole way...I don't think people will be able to take that.

    I think that is the moment when Steve Ross makes some phone calls and gets his people conducting secret research projects aimed at identifying good GM candidates. You could see Ross approach Mike Sherman to see if he would play intermediary between Ross and Bill Polian. They'll be busy all the way through the next week when, win-or-lose the Buffalo game it doesn't matter, they'll still be set about their tasks. After the final game against NE which I expect we lose by a large margin, that's when everyone presents their findings, and Steve Ross will make his decision. And I think that decision would be to fire Jeff Ireland.

    It's not that the Jaguars game would be the moment Steve Ross decides he's firing Jeff Ireland. It would be the moment he decides that he needs to embark on a full due diligence in order to determine why he should be fired, why he should be kept, and who else is available. A Jaguars loss would get the ball rolling. The point at which the ball starts rolling is always an innocent one. You've not made any decisions, you're just beginning to do your due diligence. But it also takes on its own life and you can anticipate where that is going to lead.

    How likely is that to happen?

    Well, let's just say I expect Vegas to give a home field 3 points to the Dolphins on this one...maybe gets bet up to 3.5 by the public. If I'm breaking down factors in the game that look like they'll matter I would bring up a couple. For one thing Chad Henne obviously. It always seem to me that when Henne played with an especially heavy chip on his shoulder, he played particularly well. This game is going to mean something to him. I expect to see him at his best. Luckily his best doesn't scare the piss out of you like the best of Aaron Rodgers or the best of Drew Brees. Chad Henne's best you can still deal with but if some players make plays around him, then he'll end up looking good. Cecil Shorts was out with a concussion this week but seem unlikely to miss another week. They've been struggling with Rashad Jennings trying to take ownership of the ground game in place of MJD. However that has failed so miserably this week they gave the keys to Montell Owens who turned in 91 yards on 14 carries with a TD. That's something to watch because if there's a resurgent ground game and Koa Misi is still impacted by injury, that's bad news. The thing that I notice is that the now have Jason Babin. Babin is still a solid pass rusher, in fact he got a sack-strip-recovery today against buttfumble. He will play primarily over Nate Garner's side and while Jon Martin got destroyed by Aldon Smith as we knew he would, the Dolphins privately are more concerned about Nate Garner. There's a strong possibility Babin is able to blow by Nate Garner and make the play that influences the game.

    So I boil it down to three factors to watch out for:

    1) Cecil Shorts coming back to play with Justin Blackmon who had his coming out party and a re-emerging middle threat Jordan Shipley
    2) Chad Henne playing with a serious chip on his shoulder, always seemed to play better in those situations
    3) Jason Babin rushing primarily over Nate Garner, could be a big liability throughout the game
    4) Re-emergence of the Jaguars ground attack led by Montell Owens, going up on a potentially banged up linebackers unit
    5) Paul Posluszny and those extremely well coached linebackers erasing whatever screen game we think to throw at them

    The culture of one-upsmanship has already seen a banner being flown over the stadium calling for the GM's ouster. The culture of one-upsmanship has seen a couple dozen fans show up in front of headquarters to protest. I'm wondering what's next on the agenda if the Dolphins drop their 6th loss out of 7 games. The following game against the Buffalo Bills is the final home game of the season...perfect time for these guys to hatch whatever they're going to do, be it more banners, more protests, chickens running through the parking lot...anything.
    You are dead on about this Jacksonville game being HUGE for Ireland and I would add others on the team and organization. I am not sure that I am as high on the Jags personnel as you, but we come to the same conclusion: the perception is the Dolphins should win this game and if they do not there will hell to pay.

    I do not care if it is by one point of 70, Miami needs this win.
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  3. -173
    andyahs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    I want to go back to something I was saying in response to Armando's article which quoted sources saying that right now everything is great between Ross and Ireland.

    As Armando's source himself pointed out, if the Dolphins stumble through the final four games then there will be an evaluation. He could change his mind. For me I feel like a watershed moment could be quickly on the horizon. I think the Jaguars game is potentially the turning point that gets the ball rolling on this question of replacing the current General Manager.

    The Jaguars are 2-11, headed for the #1 or #2 pick in the NFL Draft. This is a team Miami should beat. On top of that, Chad Henne is their quarterback. The mere thought of Chad Henne coming back and winning on Miami's home field in front of the fans, considering how he couldn't do that in 2009, 2010 or 2011 very well...is something I sense that most fans don't even want to think about. There's not just going to be an assumption of victory because the Jaguars are genuinely a worse team than us on the balance of the year, but because it's just unpleasant to think about if they did win. And so if the Jaguars actually did it...that is going to create shock waves amongst the fans. And I think shock waves around many in the organization. They know they're taking haymakers left and right from quality teams like the 49ers and Patriots, but this is supposed to be the one they can count on...one of the last ones remaining. If Chad Henne has a Daunte Culpepper moment where he's scoring 5 touchdowns in front of the home crowd and openly gloating at the crowd the whole way...I don't think people will be able to take that.

    I think that is the moment when Steve Ross makes some phone calls and gets his people conducting secret research projects aimed at identifying good GM candidates. You could see Ross approach Mike Sherman to see if he would play intermediary between Ross and Bill Polian. They'll be busy all the way through the next week when, win-or-lose the Buffalo game it doesn't matter, they'll still be set about their tasks. After the final game against NE which I expect we lose by a large margin, that's when everyone presents their findings, and Steve Ross will make his decision. And I think that decision would be to fire Jeff Ireland.

    It's not that the Jaguars game would be the moment Steve Ross decides he's firing Jeff Ireland. It would be the moment he decides that he needs to embark on a full due diligence in order to determine why he should be fired, why he should be kept, and who else is available. A Jaguars loss would get the ball rolling. The point at which the ball starts rolling is always an innocent one. You've not made any decisions, you're just beginning to do your due diligence. But it also takes on its own life and you can anticipate where that is going to lead.

    How likely is that to happen?

    Well, let's just say I expect Vegas to give a home field 3 points to the Dolphins on this one...maybe gets bet up to 3.5 by the public. If I'm breaking down factors in the game that look like they'll matter I would bring up a couple. For one thing Chad Henne obviously. It always seem to me that when Henne played with an especially heavy chip on his shoulder, he played particularly well. This game is going to mean something to him. I expect to see him at his best. Luckily his best doesn't scare the piss out of you like the best of Aaron Rodgers or the best of Drew Brees. Chad Henne's best you can still deal with but if some players make plays around him, then he'll end up looking good. Cecil Shorts was out with a concussion this week but seem unlikely to miss another week. They've been struggling with Rashad Jennings trying to take ownership of the ground game in place of MJD. However that has failed so miserably this week they gave the keys to Montell Owens who turned in 91 yards on 14 carries with a TD. That's something to watch because if there's a resurgent ground game and Koa Misi is still impacted by injury, that's bad news. The thing that I notice is that the now have Jason Babin. Babin is still a solid pass rusher, in fact he got a sack-strip-recovery today against buttfumble. He will play primarily over Nate Garner's side and while Jon Martin got destroyed by Aldon Smith as we knew he would, the Dolphins privately are more concerned about Nate Garner. There's a strong possibility Babin is able to blow by Nate Garner and make the play that influences the game.

    So I boil it down to three factors to watch out for:

    1) Cecil Shorts coming back to play with Justin Blackmon who had his coming out party and a re-emerging middle threat Jordan Shipley
    2) Chad Henne playing with a serious chip on his shoulder, always seemed to play better in those situations
    3) Jason Babin rushing primarily over Nate Garner, could be a big liability throughout the game
    4) Re-emergence of the Jaguars ground attack led by Montell Owens, going up on a potentially banged up linebackers unit
    5) Paul Posluszny and those extremely well coached linebackers erasing whatever screen game we think to throw at them

    The culture of one-upsmanship has already seen a banner being flown over the stadium calling for the GM's ouster. The culture of one-upsmanship has seen a couple dozen fans show up in front of headquarters to protest. I'm wondering what's next on the agenda if the Dolphins drop their 6th loss out of 7 games. The following game against the Buffalo Bills is the final home game of the season...perfect time for these guys to hatch whatever they're going to do, be it more banners, more protests, chickens running through the parking lot...anything.
    Your biased against Jeff Ireland shows in all your posts involving him and I do not disagree with you so much here except I believe Ross has been exploring his GM options most of the year and certainly does not need the Jacksonville game to get that ball rolling. I believe we need a change in GM sooner rather than later and also believe (or at least hope) Ross does not make the same mistake with GM as he did with Tony Sparano by making a change a year too late.

    This is the time to replace Ireland and with someone willing to work with Philbin as we cannot afford another coaching change.





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  4. -174
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyahs View Post
    Your biased against Jeff Ireland shows in all your posts involving him and I do not disagree with you so much here except I believe Ross has been exploring his GM options most of the year and certainly does not need the Jacksonville game to get that ball rolling. I believe we need a change in GM sooner rather than later and also believe (or at least hope) Ross does not make the same mistake with GM as he did with Tony Sparano by making a change a year too late.

    This is the time to replace Ireland and with someone willing to work with Philbin as we cannot afford another coaching change.
    It already is at least a year too late
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  5. -175
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    I would explain exactly what I'm saying, but A) I already have, and B) You've shown you're either incapable of reading and understanding, or unwilling.
    As expected, I received the typical CK cop-out response of insults and question dodging, while not actually explaining any counter-point. I'll just quote you myself then:

    You tried to make the case that Miami had to add "final say" into Ireland's contract in order to lure him away from Dallas, otherwise Dallas would have refused to allow Ireland to leave:
    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    Yes and the NFL league office is one of those people that have seen his contract and they verified that he had final say authority on personnel written into his contract otherwise they would have given Jerry Jones the right to refuse the Dolphins' interview request, which he had every intention of doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    He is on record saying that if he had a choice it would have been to make Jeff stay on through the 2008 Draft at which point he would allow him to go on his merry way and seek the promotion he desired.
    But the anti-tampering bylaws in your very own post say the contrary:
    Under Contract. Except as may be otherwise provided in such contract, a club is not obligated to grant another club permission to discuss employment with a high-level employee if he or she is under contract, even if the second club is prepared to offer him or her a position of greater responsibility within the category of High-Level Club Employees. Clubs may negotiate a right offirst refusal.
    March 1 Rule: ...the employer club is under no obligation to grant the individual the opportunity to discuss the position with the interested club if his current responsibilities include gathering information on and evaluating draft-eligible players or veteran free agent players. At the discretion of the employer club, however, such permission may be voluntarily granted.

    From this, we know Jerry Jones could have just refused to let Ireland take a job with Miami because Ireland was still under contract with Dallas. It does not require Miami to add "final say" into a contract in order to override Jery Jones as you say. In this article, ESPN confirms that Ireland was still under contract at the time of hire, and that Jerry Jones had to give his permission for Parcells to interview Ireland, which he willingly did: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3174839
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  6. -176
    LouPhinFan's Avatar
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    I find it hard to believe that Tuna was making every single pick when he was here. Surely Ireland made most of them.

    We know for sure that Parcells made the Pat White pick. I don't know for certain but I'm willing to bet he made the Jake Long pick. Other than that we can't be certain about who picked who as long as Parcells was sitting in his chair at Davie. I'd be willing to bet that Parcells simply said: "Hey Jeff, here's what we need. Go find the players", outside of Pat White and Jake Long of course.
    Insert pithy saying here.

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  7. -177
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    U made the pudding but forgot the proof.

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    It is mind boggling to me that the apologists use Parcells as some kind of kevlar to protect their boy Ireland... Like sitting on your a** while someone else determines YOUR future... YOUR REPUTATION... Is a good quality!!! Ireland was the GM of record... If he allowed Parcells to walk all over him and make decisions that ultimately would reflect on Ireland but that he DID NOT AGREE WITH????? Then he is nothing more than a patsy. Either way he does not look good...

    At least I might respect him or his devotees a little more if he actually took responsibility, rather than dodge it by pointing fingers at someone else...
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