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Thread: Huckabee - CT school shooting due to God being removed from schools

  1. -71
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphan7 View Post
    Well we probably won't know what was going through this kids head. I believe atheism is more likely to lead to suicide than belief in a higher power or God. This doesn't mean it is exclusively responsible, but when you pull God out of the schools, replace it with evolution (AKA no God to kids) and we see in increase in teen suicides over that time period, it makes you wonder.

    And there have been much more death associated to atheistic worldviews then orthodox religion. Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong to name just a few.
    This bull**** again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphan7 View Post
    Well we probably won't know what was going through this kids head. I believe atheism is more likely to lead to suicide than belief in a higher power or God. This doesn't mean it is exclusively responsible, but when you pull God out of the schools, replace it with evolution (AKA no God to kids) and we see in increase in teen suicides over that time period, it makes you wonder.

    And there have been much more death associated to atheistic worldviews then orthodox religion. Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong to name just a few.
    This probably isn't the thread for this discussion... but the death toll by relligious-minded folks throughout history far exceeds that of atheists. The entire indigenous population of the Americas was eradicated in part due to religious beliefs. The Crusades, the Inquisition, you name it. Even with Hitler's case, without the anti-semitic undercurrent that permeated society in large part due to Christian doctrine and the depiction of Jews as "Jesus killers", the Holocaust might not have been possible...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    Sorry, but I'm seeing the exact same trends as the adults and those of violent crimes, all of which follow economic patterns almost exactly.
    Economic patterns I can understand in adults. But Teens? Sorry I am not convinced teens commit suicide due to economics. There are many reasons for teen suicide listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage..._United_States

    Players come and go, but I will always be a Miami Dolphins Fan first and foremost.




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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin View Post
    This probably isn't the thread for this discussion... but the death toll by relligious-minded folks throughout history far exceeds that of atheists. The entire indigenous population of the Americas was eradicated in part due to religious beliefs. The Crusades, the Inquisition, you name it. Even with Hitler's case, without the anti-semitic undercurrent that permeated society in large part due to Christian doctrine and the depiction of Jews as "Jesus killers", the Holocaust might not have been possible...
    Do the math. Just in the 20th century alone there are over 100 million deaths attributed to atheistic world views. You can't include Hitler in the religious camp simply because Jews killed Jesus. Hitler wanted one master race. Free from defects. He wanted blond haired blue eyed germans to rule the world. One master race. Survival of the fittest, and he was was hell bent on making the odds in his favor in accomplishing that goal. This all stems from an atheistic worldview. But you are correct, probably not the best place to make this argument.
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    jared81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    This bull**** again?
    great rebuttal!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    This bull**** again?
    My exact response to the comments like "religion is responsible for more death and suffering than anything else".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphan7 View Post
    My exact response to the comments like "religion is responsible for more death and suffering than anything else".
    It's a very old, very stupid line of attack on atheism that's been rebutted a million times. Hitler, for example, was raised a Roman Catholic and called Christianity the "unshakeable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people." About half of the German High Command were confessing Catholics (and none besides Goebbels was excommunicated, and that's only because he married a Protestant!). The Vatican worked directly with the Nazis on stemming the tide of atheism and communism. The Catholics and Catholics bishops were a powerful force in German politics. The deciding vote to make Hitler chancellor was cast by a leader of the Catholic Center party.

    It's debatable how much synergy there was beween the Nazis and the Catholic Church (personally I think less than some believe). But Pope Pius XII didn't even condemn Hitler until the war was over, despite being informed of the attacks on Jewish synagogues and businesses during the Kristallnacht and of atrocities in Austria, Lithuiania, Poland and the Ukraine, among others. He never declared it a sin to be a Nazi and refused to join with the Allies in a condemnation of Germany.

    The notion that Hitler started a world war and annihilated the Jews because he was an atheist is just flat out ****ing stupid. It's totally ignorant of history. It ignores the rise of anti-Semitism world wide in the early 20th century and it's roots in Christian fundamentalism.

    Likewise the purges of Stalin, the Khymer Rouge and the Great Leap Forward were not initiated on behalf of atheism. It is hardly comparable to the continuous religious strife and killing on behalf of religion that can be found right now in Northern Ireland, the Asian Subcontinent, the Middle East and going back to the 19th century to the wars of Protestant Reformation, the Crusades, and on and ****ing on.

    Edit: I'll add this video of the late, great Christopher Hitchens on the subject (added a different, even better video).

    Last edited by TheWalrus; 12-16-2012 at 12:57 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob19 View Post
    Of course I think it would be beneficial, but would you have a problem with an atheist teaching your child about Christianity? Or a Muslim? Or vice-versa? Everyone has their biases, & you can see where the problems with this might arise. Would I like to see high-school kids educated about the world's religions? Absolutely. Can it be done in a non-biased fashion on a consistent basis? I don't know that it is.

    I took it upon myself to teach myself about the world's religions (something I find most people are ignorant about), & some of the college courses I've taken have briefly touched upon some of the world's popular religions. I think everyone should learn about the world's religions, but I don't know that k-12 public school is the place to do it.
    Aloha everyone. Long time no see. I think Rob nailed it here and this has always been my argument as to why religion should stay out of our public schools. There would be too much bias depending on who is teaching. For example, a Christian would not be happy if a Satanist was teaching the religion class. In the same way, some Baptists would probably not be happy if a Catholic was teaching the religion class, etc. etc.

    I'm a public school teacher myself, and can tell you that the students are allowed to talk about religion and pray all they want. They can even organize religious clubs on campus and have Bible studies during their meetings if they so desire...in a public school classroom. It just all has to be completely student directed. In the same sense, the Wicans on campus can hold their own religious meetings, as can the Muslims, Jews, etc. Teachers are not allowed to teach religion and there are no school organized religious activities (though someone did offer prayer at our Christmas party last week...).

    As a Christian myself, I feel that my children should learn about their religion at home and at church...and at the Christian private school that they attend. As a Seventh-day Adventist, I know that some of my particular religious beliefs would be offensive to others Christians (i.e. no eternally burning hell) just as some of theirs are offensive to me. With all the different flavors of Christianity, it would be difficult to even have a Christian teaching a class on Christianity in the public school system. It just wouldn't work....IMHO.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphan7 View Post
    Economic patterns I can understand in adults. But Teens? Sorry I am not convinced teens commit suicide due to economics. There are many reasons for teen suicide listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage..._United_States
    Kids don't suffer when their parents lose their jobs? A lot on that list are results of such things. You can brush off the correlation to economic swings if you want, but it's far too similar to me.

    Strangely, I don't see "evolution" as a reason on there. It's wikipedia, so feel free to add it.





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    Fox news is a ****ing joke.

    I was flipping between all of the news stations yesterday.

    While watching MSNBC, they were having rational discussions about gun laws. When I turned on Fox News, I hear such things as the terms "evil" and "the devil" being used. Apparently, the devil was involved in the horrible actions of that maniac.

    I swear I just now flipped over there on Fox News and Huckabee was on. The first thing I hear him say...... "God was definately there right after this shooting occurred". Hmmm. So God... this so called omniscient, omnipotent, omnibevolent being the christians speak of, was not there just before the shooting began or during it, but RIGHT AFTER!!! Good timing on God's part.

    As you can see its impossible for a so called God could be those 3 characteristics at the same time given what transpires on earth. But, if he were just omnipotent you would think he would do something to stop that lunatic...... unless of course God is a ****ing *******. That dosent sound right either though. Maybe God is just imaginary. I donno. I just know the **** that comes out of Huckabees' mouth is total nonsense.

    I will say I could do without MSNBC using quotes from Al Sharpton for quick 5 second ads for their network. But, Fox News is completely unwatchable altogether. I cant watch it anymore during terrible stories like this because of the ridiculous **** they say. Sometimes I will watch it during regular news cycles just for laughs or to see OReilly troll the **** out of people, but I just cant put it on to see them cover a story like this.
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